Fire alex cora

[notin]

I've already said I did not like the Lakins choice, and questioning how long he stuck with Brasier is fine, but "fire Cora?".

 

 

This thread was created and titled in October, 2017, the day after Cora was hired. It’s was made as a joke, which is more obvious if you read the early posts...

[mvp 78]

im not really saying fire cora.

 

[Slasher9]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]733[/ATTACH]

 

[moonslav59]

im not really saying fire cora. i am saying he is earning the WTF Cora moniker. it is still early in the season but gun to my head i would put it like this:

just about all the iffy moves in 2018 worked well for Cora/Red Sox/Us

just about all the iffy moves in 2019 worked poorly for Cora/Red Sox/Us

 

A lot of moves a manager makes are "iffy," and there is a lot more that goes into each choice than we'll ever know. I'm not saying we can't say this move or that move was "wrong," especially if we say it before the results are in, but my own personal view is that I like the vast majority of moves Cora makes, and quite a few of the ones I disagreed with at the times they were made, ended up working out well.

 

I guess I just don't feel any need to knit-pick every move a manager makes. Iffy moves sometimes work and sometimes they don't, and when they don't it doesn't necessarily mean it was a "bad move," since we never will know what might have happened if another move (or our choice of moves) was made.

 

To me, Cora is a fantastic manager, and just because more of his moves have failed this year, doesn't change my opinion. Think of how many times Cora has brought in Walden, and it worked. Think about how nervous we were, when he brought him in earlier in the season. No way did any of us expect Walden to do this well. Was Cora a genius for depending on such an iffy guy for so long while it worked, or did a player just perform well? Now, Walden fails, and then the next guys failed, so Cora sucks.

 

To me, our pen has performed way better than expected, but when they fail, it's all Cora's fault... not DD's...not Brasier's... not just bum luck.

 

Cora's my guy all the way. He's the best Sox manager I have seen, although the sample size is certainly too small to defend that view. I think, in time, many will feel the same way I do, now.

 

[moonslav59]

This thread was created and titled in October, 2017, the day after Cora was hired. It’s was made as a joke, which is more obvious if you read the early posts...

 

Okay, I missed that, but someone did bring it to the top, right after our worst game in years.

[notin]

Okay, I missed that, but someone did bring it to the top, right after our worst game in years.

 

Not the first time it’s resurfaced and fooled someone. Probably not the last, either...

[Bellhorn04]

Not the first time it’s resurfaced and fooled someone. Probably not the last, either...

 

We had 3 Bill Buckner RIP threads started, so powers of observation are not a strong suit here.

[Slasher9]

A lot of moves a manager makes are "iffy," and there is a lot more that goes into each choice than we'll ever know. I'm not saying we can't say this move or that move was "wrong," especially if we say it before the results are in, but my own personal view is that I like the vast majority of moves Cora makes, and quite a few of the ones I disagreed with at the times they were made, ended up working out well.

 

I guess I just don't feel any need to knit-pick every move a manager makes. Iffy moves sometimes work and sometimes they don't, and when they don't it doesn't necessarily mean it was a "bad move," since we never will know what might have happened if another move (or our choice of moves) was made.

 

To me, Cora is a fantastic manager, and just because more of his moves have failed this year, doesn't change my opinion. Think of how many times Cora has brought in Walden, and it worked. Think about how nervous we were, when he brought him in earlier in the season. No way did any of us expect Walden to do this well. Was Cora a genius for depending on such an iffy guy for so long while it worked, or did a player just perform well? Now, Walden fails, and then the next guys failed, so Cora sucks.

 

To me, our pen has performed way better than expected, but when they fail, it's all Cora's fault... not DD's...not Brasier's... not just bum luck.

 

Cora's my guy all the way. He's the best Sox manager I have seen, although the sample size is certainly too small to defend that view. I think, in time, many will feel the same way I do, now.

 

 

i havent used the word suck. i am just confirming the 2019 moniker of WTF Cora. hopefully he can get on a magical run again where all the headscratcher moves work out for us. it seems like this season yang is having some input over all the yin we had last season.

[bosoxmal]

Nonsense. You sound like Donald Trump!

[mvp 78]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]734[/ATTACH]

 

It's not my fault that you didn't have the high ground and you still tried to attack. Sad!

[moonslav59]

i havent used the word suck. i am just confirming the 2019 moniker of WTF Cora. hopefully he can get on a magical run again where all the headscratcher moves work out for us. it seems like this season yang is having some input over all the yin we had last season.

 

Can we agree that with a pen like ours, making pen choices is not an easy task.

 

Just about anyone he calls on can be viewed skeptically.

[Kimmi]

But... but... but... then who would back up Moreland at first base?

 

This post deserves an eye roll.

 

Wait for it............................................

[Elktonnick]

A lot of moves a manager makes are "iffy," and there is a lot more that goes into each choice than we'll ever know. I'm not saying we can't say this move or that move was "wrong," especially if we say it before the results are in, but my own personal view is that I like the vast majority of moves Cora makes, and quite a few of the ones I disagreed with at the times they were made, ended up working out well.

 

I guess I just don't feel any need to knit-pick every move a manager makes. Iffy moves sometimes work and sometimes they don't, and when they don't it doesn't necessarily mean it was a "bad move," since we never will know what might have happened if another move (or our choice of moves) was made.

 

To me, Cora is a fantastic manager, and just because more of his moves have failed this year, doesn't change my opinion. Think of how many times Cora has brought in Walden, and it worked. Think about how nervous we were, when he brought him in earlier in the season. No way did any of us expect Walden to do this well. Was Cora a genius for depending on such an iffy guy for so long while it worked, or did a player just perform well? Now, Walden fails, and then the next guys failed, so Cora sucks.

 

To me, our pen has performed way better than expected, but when they fail, it's all Cora's fault... not DD's...not Brasier's... not just bum luck.

 

Cora's my guy all the way. He's the best Sox manager I have seen, although the sample size is certainly too small to defend that view. I think, in time, many will feel the same way I do, now.

 

 

 

You must be very young!

[Kimmi]

Cant believe what I just said we have become the Yankees. Team that I hated when they spent, and spent, and spent.

 

Yup.

[Kimmi]

He could have had his starters ready for opening day. It was that ill advised decision that put the team in a deep hole. The bullpen was fine for the first month. He lost the Division in March and April.

 

I didn't realize that the season was over!

[moonslav59]

You must be very young!

 

I just turned 60 and became a Sox fan in the early 70's.

 

Top Sox winning %: (200+ games)

 

.631 Cora

.621 Stahl

.606 McCarthy

.602 O'Neill

 

10. Francona .574

13. Dick Williams .545

15. Joe Cronin .539

 

Championships as a percent of full seasons coached:

100% Cora

25% Francona

20% Farrell

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by moonslav59

[Slasher9]

Can we agree that with a pen like ours, making pen choices is not an easy task.

 

Just about anyone he calls on can be viewed skeptically.

 

Yes we can agree on this.

[Bellhorn04]

Can we agree that with a pen like ours, making pen choices is not an easy task.

 

Just about anyone he calls on can be viewed skeptically.

 

Good post.

[moonslav59]

Yes we can agree on this.

 

Can we agree that (overall) our pen has performed better than expected?

 

If the answer is yes, can we give some credit to Cora for putting people in a better position to do well more often than not?

[vegasbob]

Can we agree that (overall) our pen has performed better than expected?

 

If the answer is yes, can we give some credit to Cora for putting people in a better position to do well more often than not?

 

Bullpen aside, we don't see much pinchhitting, particularly on the Sox, but every manager who puts in a PH is placing a hitter in a 70-75% chance of failure . Yes maybe the guy taken out has a 80% chance of failure or worse, but PH'ers are far more inconsistent in getting results than relievers, so are PH'ers on the manager, the hitter or the opposing pitcher. With a 3 run lead, and even after the first HR, Brasier was a fair choice to close this one. After the walk, maybe a not so good choice, when the .087 guy hit a 2 run HR, it was a WTF Cora, fire him!!!! moment. very bad choice. All it took was one ground ball to erase 2 , and have no one on, 2 outs. Brasier would have looked pretty good.

 

I don't know how mentally tough Brasier is and he's now had multi-flops, so I would not go back to him in the 9th for a long while, until I saw where his confidence and ability have settled.

[Bellhorn04]

Bullpen aside, we don't see much pinchhitting, particularly on the Sox, but every manager who puts in a PH is placing a hitter in a 70-75% chance of failure . Yes maybe the guy taken out has a 80% chance of failure or worse, but PH'ers are far more inconsistent in getting results than relievers, so are PH'ers on the manager, the hitter or the opposing pitcher. With a 3 run lead, and even after the first HR, Brasier was a fair choice to close this one. After the walk, maybe a not so good choice, when the .087 guy hit a 2 run HR, it was a WTF Cora, fire him!!!! moment. very bad choice. All it took was one ground ball to erase 2 , and have no one on, 2 outs. Brasier would have looked pretty good.

 

I don't know how mentally tough Brasier is and he's now had multi-flops, so I would not go back to him in the 9th for a long while, until I saw where his confidence and ability have settled.

 

Another good post.

[vegasbob]

Thanks, I'm trying to think more about the situation like a grownup, rather than just saying , screw you Beni.

[moonslav59]

Bullpen aside, we don't see much pinchhitting, particularly on the Sox, but every manager who puts in a PH is placing a hitter in a 70-75% chance of failure . Yes maybe the guy taken out has a 80% chance of failure or worse, but PH'ers are far more inconsistent in getting results than relievers, so are PH'ers on the manager, the hitter or the opposing pitcher. With a 3 run lead, and even after the first HR, Brasier was a fair choice to close this one. After the walk, maybe a not so good choice, when the .087 guy hit a 2 run HR, it was a WTF Cora, fire him!!!! moment. very bad choice. All it took was one ground ball to erase 2 , and have no one on, 2 outs. Brasier would have looked pretty good.

 

I don't know how mentally tough Brasier is and he's now had multi-flops, so I would not go back to him in the 9th for a long while, until I saw where his confidence and ability have settled.

 

I agree on not using Brasier in a high leverage situation for a while, but I think he had been doing well enough before last nights game to give him a try.

[vegasbob]

I agree on not using Brasier in a high leverage situation for a while, but I think he had been doing well enough before last nights game to give him a try.

 

I think he was actually on an upswing in effectiveness. That game should have been a rainout and we'd all feel better

[SCM33]

Good post.

 

WOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW wait a second.

 

I got killed earlier this year for calling this bullpen full of shitbums. Now, a month later, you are calling that a good post?

[Thunder]

WOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW wait a second.

 

I got killed earlier this year for calling this bullpen full of shitbums. Now, a month later, you are calling that a good post?

 

It all depends on timing. If they pitch 5 scoreless the night before, it's a bad post. If they blow the game the night before, it's a great post

[Kimmi]

Cora: "This sounds bad or whatever, but that was the worst-case scenario. We were down pitching-wise, and we kept scoring. You feel like, 'Oh, God, we have a shot. Like Tito used to say, you can't be chasing wins. If you do that, you'll pay the price the next 7 days."

 

Cora and Francona, cut from the same cloth. This is hard to accept sometimes, but it's the truth. You can't 'chase wins' in the regular season.

[vegasbob]

Cora: "This sounds bad or whatever, but that was the worst-case scenario. We were down pitching-wise, and we kept scoring. You feel like, 'Oh, God, we have a shot. Like Tito used to say, you can't be chasing wins. If you do that, you'll pay the price the next 7 days."

 

Cora and Francona, cut from the same cloth. This is hard to accept sometimes, but it's the truth. You can't 'chase wins' in the regular season.

 

Personally, I saw Cora's quote earlier and was kind of surprised at it. I have mentioned before that on occasion it seemed to me that Cora is managing tomorrow's game or something on the weekend. You can only win the game you are playing and if burning a relief pitcher while you are 2 runs down in the 5th inning is not worth doing, find a new line of work. Part of the 14 runs scored by Cleveland were Alex getting ready for the Yankees. I didn't think Tito deserved his firing in Boston but that was the culmination of 40 other things out of his control. Cora has been regrettably for all of us and his team been snakebit by some situations which worked out well last year. Reversion to the mean is tough.

[moonslav59]

We'll see how you feel after we see the reversion of the reversion.

[devildavid]

Personally, I saw Cora's quote earlier and was kind of surprised at it. I have mentioned before that on occasion it seemed to me that Cora is managing tomorrow's game or something on the weekend. You can only win the game you are playing and if burning a relief pitcher while you are 2 runs down in the 5th inning is not worth doing, find a new line of work. Part of the 14 runs scored by Cleveland were Alex getting ready for the Yankees. I didn't think Tito deserved his firing in Boston but that was the culmination of 40 other things out of his control. Cora has been regrettably for all of us and his team been snakebit by some situations which worked out well last year. Reversion to the mean is tough.

 

This isn't reversion to the mean at all. This team is not performing up to their talent level so far this season. Last season was a perfect storm of great performances, and this was also a team that had taken the division for three seasons in a row. Two of those seasons were with the supposedly mediocre managing of John Farrell. I have no reason as to why this season has been mediocre at best as far as winning games, but I can't pin it on Cora.