A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[moonslav59]

That is leadership - and how players earn their stripes to actually be able to have the words matter.

 

Good point.

 

Certainly, when a young player is in the clubhouse and a vet like Papi of McHale says something, you're going to stop and listen-- or hopefully, you will.

 

Great players (and leaders) can't just say, "Stay focused!" They have to model it.

 

Also, learning how to stay focused is not all that easy for some. Even a great teacher or leader might not get through to everyone, while maybe some clown might say something that strikes a chord and begins a change.

 

[moonslav59]

And of course, sometimes it's being stupid.

 

Millar often played the clown, but when it was game time, he was serious as a heart attack.

 

Some players need to be put at ease, and a good leader notices who they are.

 

Others seemingly need the opposite. Those ones are harder to lead, IMO.

Edited February 13, 2018 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Millar often played the clown, but when it was game time, he was serious as a heart attack.

 

Some players need to be put at ease, and a good leader notices who they are.

 

Others seemingly need the opposite. Those ones are harder to lead, IMO.

 

What I meant was, sometimes playing injured is being stupid.

[moonslav59]

What I meant was, sometimes playing injured is being stupid.

 

Yes, ask Bill Walton.

[notin]

Yes, ask Bill Walton.

 

Or Matt Clement. ..

[notin]

Yes, ask Bill Walton.

 

Or Matt Clement. ..

[sk7326]

What I meant was, sometimes playing injured is being stupid.

 

oh absolutely - I should have talked about sacrifice in a larger level ... and the leading by example is the stuff that gives some credibility about the other stuff.

 

I am excited about the change in manager - but I think a lot of the change might involve a lighter touch than Farrell was capable.

[mvp 78]

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-overrated-team-yadier-molina-aroldis-chapman-headline-list-204520263.html

 

Yahoo Sports just came up with a "most overrated baseball players" list and included JBJ. Do you guys think he's overrated?

 

Also winning were Longoria (duh), Odor, Kemp, Hosmer, Addisson Russell, Molina (not sure about this one) and Bautista. Seems like a fair list.

 

The pitchers were Sonny Gray (duh), Bartolo Colon and Matt Harvey.

[moonslav59]

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-overrated-team-yadier-molina-aroldis-chapman-headline-list-204520263.html

 

Yahoo Sports just came up with a "most overrated baseball players" list and included JBJ. Do you guys think he's overrated?

 

Also winning were Longoria (duh), Odor, Kemp, Hosmer, Addisson Russell, Molina (not sure about this one) and Bautista. Seems like a fair list.

 

The pitchers were Sonny Gray (duh), Bartolo Colon and Matt Harvey.

 

JBJ is underrated.

[Jasonbay44]

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-overrated-team-yadier-molina-aroldis-chapman-headline-list-204520263.html

 

Yahoo Sports just came up with a "most overrated baseball players" list and included JBJ. Do you guys think he's overrated?

 

Also winning were Longoria (duh), Odor, Kemp, Hosmer, Addisson Russell, Molina (not sure about this one) and Bautista. Seems like a fair list.

 

The pitchers were Sonny Gray (duh), Bartolo Colon and Matt Harvey.

 

I disagree with JBJ and Molina.. and I don't really think Bartolo Colon is overrated, who is overrating him? He's an old past his prime player who sucks now, but is loved because of his personality, I wouldn't really consider him "overrated" lol.

[harmony]

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-overrated-team-yadier-molina-aroldis-chapman-headline-list-204520263.html

 

Yahoo Sports just came up with a "most overrated baseball players" list and included JBJ. Do you guys think he's overrated?

 

Also winning were Longoria (duh), Odor, Kemp, Hosmer, Addisson Russell, Molina (not sure about this one) and Bautista. Seems like a fair list.

 

The pitchers were Sonny Gray (duh), Bartolo Colon and Matt Harvey.

Jackie Bradley Jr. is underrated by many fans but I suspect front offices properly value Bradley.

[Bellhorn04]

JBJ is neither underrated nor overrated. He is what his WAR says he is.

[Kimmi]

I really don't think that it is about one player leading a team to the promised land. That would be ridiculous. It is a culture of change that happens because a group of good leaders believe that it needs to be changed. 93 wins means a lot. i agree but it isn't enough for me I guess. I don't agree with anyone here who doesn't think that good leadership is incredibly important. it has been called a 'straw man' arguement because it isn't quantifiable and that is all well and good. there are some things that just can't be explained or quantified. I'm ok with everyone who disagrees with me about this too.

 

Well, that's the impression that I got from reading some of the posts (not necessarily yours). I have heard comments along the lines of the team lacking leadership once Papi left, implying that Papi was that guy leading the team to the promised land.

 

Leadership comes in many forms. A player being a good role model by having a great work ethic and attitude can be an excellent leader without saying a word. I think we have several of those guys on our team.

 

I guess I'm just not buying that last year's team lacked leadership.

[Kimmi]

A good manager/supervisor/boss can make a difference in the performance of the employees in his/her charge. This is true in baseball , as it is in everything.

 

I agree with this 100%. I have always said that a manager's most important job is what he does off the field, not on it.

[Kimmi]

I certainly wouldn't argue with this. But let's not get things confused here. Management and leadership can be 2 completely different things. Good managers can be completely behind the scenes, practically invisible.

 

I've been taking some issue with another poster's contention that the 2017 Red Sox, especially the hitters, suffered from a lack of leadership. When you start saying things like that, that's when you're really taking the next step with intangibles and just basically making stuff up that may not be true at all.

 

^^This.

[Kimmi]

I've been reading some stuff about Sale that make him seem like a great teammate and citizen.

 

He made the trip to Puerto Rico with Cora and a few others to deliver supplies to hurricane victims.

He was doing some work with Jason Groome in the offseason.

 

Personally, I think Sale has been a great leader for our team.

 

That said, he did not exhibit great leadership at all when he cut up the uniforms with Chicago.

[Kimmi]

I'm not sure playing injured is "leadership." It is leading by example.

 

To me, leading by example is absolutely leadership.

[moonslav59]

Jackie Bradley Jr. is underrated by many fans but I suspect front offices properly value Bradley.

 

Yes, and he's the guy most GMs ask about.

[notin]

Personally, I think Sale has been a great leader for our team.

 

That said, he did not exhibit great leadership at all when he cut up the uniforms with Chicago.

 

Was he being a leader when he attacked management over the whole LaRoche thing? I can see reasons to say he was. ..

[moonslav59]

Was he being a leader when he attacked management over the whole LaRoche thing? I can see reasons to say he was. ..

 

Yes, he was right on LaRoche and the ugly uniforms.

[mvp 78]

Was he being a leader when he attacked management over the whole LaRoche thing? I can see reasons to say he was. ..

 

Yes, he was standing up for his team.

[moonslav59]

Yes, he was standing up for his team.

 

I totally agree. Team over ownership and management, when it's the right thing to do, is ballsy and what true leaders do.

[mvp 78]

I totally agree. Team over ownership and management, when it's the right thing to do, is ballsy and what true leaders do.

 

Our good nutmeg friend told us all last year how horrible Sale would be for team chemistry. Seemed that he did just fine to me?

[moonslav59]

Our good nutmeg friend told us all last year how horrible Sale would be for team chemistry. Seemed that he did just fine to me?

 

I'm only going by my impressions, but Sale looks like a fierce competitor. Plus, he gets the job done.

 

He seems like a good leader to me, but we know very little about what goes on in the clubhouse, club flights and hotel rooms.

 

It's hard to know, if we need better player leadership or not. I guess it can't hurt, but I think our biggest need is a legitimate clean-up hitter. It will lengthen our line-up and allow us to use Betts at lead-off (2nd- where I like him) or 3rd (where studies show he should not hit).

 

1. Bogey

2. Betts

3. Beni

4. JDM

5. Devers

6. HRam-Moreland

7. JBJ

8. Marco

9. Vaz

 

Not only does JD vastly improve our 4 slot, moving HRam & Moreland to 6th will improve that slot and the 7-8 slots as well.

 

Last year, HRam and Moreland batted 4th or 5th in 893 PAs (out of 1434) or 64% of the time!

 

4th: 535 out of 730 PAs

HRam .747 OPS

Moreland .691 OPS

 

5th: 358 out of 704

Moreland .764

HRam .773

[notin]

Yes, he was standing up for his team.

 

Absolutely true. Nor only that, he was standing up for a teammate with a well - known condition (ADD) that has been known to affect his play.

 

The flip side is those type of tirades do tend to create more strife than necessary and this one was probably a big factor in getting him out of Chicago. ..

[notin]

Yes, he was standing up for his team.

 

Absolutely true. Nor only that, he was standing up for a teammate with a well - known condition (ADD) that has been known to affect his play.

 

The flip side is those type of tirades do tend to create more strife than necessary and this one was probably a big factor in getting him out of Chicago. ..

[Nick]

I'm only going by my impressions, but Sale looks like a fierce competitor. Plus, he gets the job done.

 

He seems like a good leader to me, but we know very little about what goes on in the clubhouse, club flights and hotel rooms.

 

It's hard to know, if we need better player leadership or not. I guess it can't hurt, but I think our biggest need is a legitimate clean-up hitter. It will lengthen our line-up and allow us to use Betts at lead-off (2nd- where I like him) or 3rd (where studies show he should not hit).

 

1. Bogey

2. Betts

3. Beni

4. JDM

5. Devers

6. HRam-Moreland

7. JBJ

8. Marco

9. Vaz

 

Not only does JD vastly improve our 4 slot, moving HRam & Moreland to 6th will improve that slot and the 7-8 slots as well.

 

Last year, HRam and Moreland batted 4th or 5th in 893 PAs (out of 1434) or 64% of the time!

 

4th: 535 out of 730 PAs

HRam .747 OPS

Moreland .691 OPS

 

5th: 358 out of 704

Moreland .764

HRam .773

 

Ball's in JD's hand....He can be mad at the world but fair value is what willing buyer and seller comes to terms. He is overestimating his value.

 

Does he really think he'll have more leverage by sitting out a year or settling for a one year deal? Next year's free agent class is loaded and he'll be year older.

 

If I'm Boras, I'd ask for graceful ending with Sox. Beg for few extra millions and be done with it. But he's not getting another year and I only see increase of say $10M over 5 years. That's absolute max. Hell, DD may not want to do that.

[mvp 78]

Ball's in JD's hand....He can be mad at the world but fair value is what willing buyer and seller comes to terms. He is overestimating his value.

 

Does he really think he'll have more leverage by sitting out a year or settling for a one year deal? Next year's free agent class is loaded and he'll be year older.

 

If I'm Boras, I'd ask for graceful ending with Sox. Beg for few extra millions and be done with it. But he's not getting another year and I only see increase of say $10M over 5 years. That's absolute max. Hell, DD may not want to do that.

 

Get the 5/100 deal, but ask for some big incentives like $10M for MVP, $5M for WS ring, $1M for HR title, etc.

[moonslav59]

Ball's in JD's hand....He can be mad at the world but fair value is what willing buyer and seller comes to terms. He is overestimating his value.

 

Does he really think he'll have more leverage by sitting out a year or settling for a one year deal? Next year's free agent class is loaded and he'll be year older.

 

If I'm Boras, I'd ask for graceful ending with Sox. Beg for few extra millions and be done with it. But he's not getting another year and I only see increase of say $10M over 5 years. That's absolute max. Hell, DD may not want to do that.

 

A lot depends on what AZ is or will offer JD. If they are offering $26M/1 or $50M/2, and he prefers that to $100M/5 or $105M/5, then so be it. I might try to offer more than AZ on a short deal, but he might not take it, unless it's way more.

 

JD has a choice to make.

 

If I was DD, I'd stick to my max value offer, which might be slightly higher than the offer out there right now. I would not go higher, unless the years got shorter.

[moonslav59]

Get the 5/100 deal, but ask for some big incentives like $10M for MVP, $5M for WS ring, $1M for HR title, etc.

 

Make some easy, and maybe he'll bite:

 

$100M/5 plus...

 

$5M for MVP or $1M for top 5 MVP

$2M for top 3 slugging%

$2M for 600 PAs

$1M more for 650 PAs

$1M for showing up to ST'ing on time

$1M for great leadership (just kidding)