A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[jad]

Red Sox fans do not have to convince each other than Hanley is VERY VERY valuable to other teams, who thus obviously should trade for him. THey have to convince other teams that he is that valuable--a quite different matter.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox fans do not have to convince each other than Hanley is VERY VERY valuable to other teams, who thus obviously should trade for him. THey have to convince other teams that he is that valuable--a quite different matter.

 

Nobody is trying convince anyone that HRam has value to other teams, let alone "very very" much.

 

I'm looking to try and find a trade partner that has an equal salary dump situation as we do.

 

I admitted the Miami deal I suggested was a bad one.

 

Would the Tigers trade Miggy for HRam straight up? Hell yah! I wouldn't.

 

Would the White Sox trade jamie Shields for HRam? Maybe. I probably wouldn't.

 

Those are the types of deals I'm looking at- trying to convince a team that HRam has a ton of value.

 

We could also throw in other players or prospects to "sweeten" the deal, but we'd need to get one thing back, either some more spending space or a salary dump type player that plays 1B, SP'er, 2B or possibly 4th OF/DH. I'll look at some AL team's salary dumps soon, and see if I see a match.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Why not just assume HanRam is untradeable? On top of everything else he just had surgery.

[moonslav59]

Why not just assume HanRam is untradeable? On top of everything else he just had surgery.

 

I do assume that, but now that the season is over, what else is there to ponder? After all, someone was willing to pay Pablito more than 1 dollar.

 

How's this?

 

HRam $22M or $44M, if he vests plus a prospect (or Hembree, Holt or Swihart, if anyone sees value in them)

 

for...

 

$49M/3 Ian Kennedy (We'd save $6M on the luxury budget in 2018: they save $5M to $27M depedning on the vesting option.)

 

or

 

$74M/3 Jordan Zimmerman (We break even on luxury budget & the Tigers save $30-50M.)

 

 

 

 

 

[OH FOY]

Amazing that in Hanley's 5 prime years 25-29 he hit only 99 HRS.

[cp176]

borderline stupidity to think that anyone is going to take a chance on Hanley in a trade that works out in any posiitve way for us. Hanley has had some cleanup surgery. if he recovers well from it, his bat in our lineup can still be very valuable. Unless someone can convince him to tear up his contract and retire, i think that we better hope for a strong comeback. it could happen.

[notin]

borderline stupidity to think that anyone is going to take a chance on Hanley in a trade that works out in any posiitve way for us. Hanley has had some cleanup surgery. if he recovers well from it, his bat in our lineup can still be very valuable. Unless someone can convince him to tear up his contract and retire, i think that we better hope for a strong comeback. it could happen.

 

Despite his shortened season, Hanley was a pretty good offensive force the season before signing in Boston. So now that he isn't, many want to rush him our to make way for the next free agency bust that used to be a pretty good offensive player somewhere else. And who can be had for more money and more years than Hanley.

 

Yeah!!!

[Bellhorn04]

In a way Hanley suffers from being lumped together with Panda. They were like a package deal! Their signings were announced on the same day. $41 million of combined annual salary.

[Larry Cook]

I did not have a problem with the Hanley signing.

 

But I did think sending him to the outfield was a joke.

 

I do not know how he will hit coming back from shoulder surgery, but I think if he is healthy, he can make us a better team!

[jacksonianmarch]

Since coming back to Boston, Hanley has produced 0.6 WAR total and is coming off a -0.4 WAR season. He is now post shoulder surgery and is a year further beyond his prime. I definitely bring some DH competition in to camp. Hanley doesn’t get the DH job back without earning it

[cp176]

Since coming back to Boston, Hanley has produced 0.6 WAR total and is coming off a -0.4 WAR season. He is now post shoulder surgery and is a year further beyond his prime. I definitely bring some DH competition in to camp. Hanley doesn’t get the DH job back without earning it

 

A solid big league hitting first baseman with a healthy Hanley as dh could be formidable. A lot of doom and gloom an woe is me on here these days. I'm thinking that the Yankess path to the American League East title next season still won't be just a simple walk in the park.

[cp176]

I did not have a problem with the Hanley signing.

 

But I did think sending him to the outfield was a joke.

 

I do not know how he will hit coming back from shoulder surgery, but I think if he is healthy, he can make us a better team!

 

 

That gd DD - he must have had something to do with Hanley's move to the outfield.

[moonslav59]

I did not have a problem with the Hanley signing.

 

But I did think sending him to the outfield was a joke.

 

I do not know how he will hit coming back from shoulder surgery, but I think if he is healthy, he can make us a better team!

 

When they signed HRam, the first thing I thought of was third base. Then I heard we also signed Pablo, and I thought, "WTF!!!"

[cp176]

So prior to coming to Boston, wasn't there quite the controversy with Hanley not being willing or certainly not wanting to play third base in Florida? Boston signed a player who was traded away initially because of attitude concerns certainly not ability. Signing him, then trying to force him to play in a position that he didn't really want to play - I don't think that that had even a remote chance of happening. To his credit, he appears to have grown up. He may still prove to be valuable to us.

[OH FOY]

When they signed HRam, the first thing I thought of was third base. Then I heard we also signed Pablo, and I thought, "WTF!!!"

 

Agree, that was my 1st thought too.

[moonslav59]

So prior to coming to Boston, wasn't there quite the controversy with Hanley not being willing or certainly not wanting to play third base in Florida? Boston signed a player who was traded away initially because of attitude concerns certainly not ability. Signing him, then trying to force him to play in a position that he didn't really want to play - I don't think that that had even a remote chance of happening. To his credit, he appears to have grown up. He may still prove to be valuable to us.

 

I doubt he wanted to play LF. I'm just guessing, but I think he'd have preferred 3B, since he had played there before.

[moonslav59]

At least Ben was able to dump the albatrosses he inherited (Crawford & Beckett), although it took giving up AGon. Trading AGon actually worked out well, as he quickly declined, and the guys we have chosen to play 1B have largely outplayed AGon since the trade.

 

The Pablo contract is killing us right now. Nineteen million dollars would make our winter spending budget a lot easier to manage.

 

HRam still has a chance to contribute next year. I hope the surgery helps him come close to what he is (was) capable of producing.

[cp176]

I doubt he wanted to play LF. I'm just guessing, but I think he'd have preferred 3B, since he had played there before.

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you Moon - I just can't help but wonder why anyone would think that we would sign someone with somewhat of a history of having some attitude issues and then expecting him to play a position that he didn't want to play to begin with with a smile on his face. Nice way to start off with a new club don't you think. Obviously he didn't want to play left field. Once again, i don't think the Red Sox ever even considered putting him in any position that he didn't want to be in. If that was the plan, then it was a bad one regardless of what type of hitter he was.

[OH FOY]

His shoulder had to give him problems, even when I was watching him, first thought was man, his bat really slowed down. Especially against Lefties, he has a career .295 avg. against Lefties, something has to be physical when you drop down to .179 this year against Lefties.

[oldtimer]

At least Ben was able to dump the albatrosses he inherited (Crawford & Beckett), although it took giving up AGon. Trading AGon actually worked out well, as he quickly declined, and the guys we have chosen to play 1B have largely outplayed AGon since the trade.

 

The Pablo contract is killing us right now. Nineteen million dollars would make our winter spending budget a lot easier to manage.

 

HRam still has a chance to contribute next year. I hope the surgery helps him come close to what he is (was) capable of producing.

 

The Pablo contract is and has been very limiting to the team and the moves it could make. Still another year of that. And remember we had to move through the Craig deal and the Castillo deal which had to impact the decision making process involving JH. Hanley at least may have some remaining value but I would hope that his option does't vest. That $22 Million could help us going forward. Now we are also faced with the Price, Thornburg and Pedey uncertainties. We can hope that both will add some value for their money, but long term contracts, especially for pitchers are very risky.

 

A reckless GM can screw up a franchise for years with just a couple of bad moves, even one as wealthy as the Sox.

[a700hitter]

Thanks Ben

[notin]

So prior to coming to Boston, wasn't there quite the controversy with Hanley not being willing or certainly not wanting to play third base in Florida? Boston signed a player who was traded away initially because of attitude concerns certainly not ability. Signing him, then trying to force him to play in a position that he didn't really want to play - I don't think that that had even a remote chance of happening. To his credit, he appears to have grown up. He may still prove to be valuable to us.

 

I heard Hanley contacted the Red Sox and expressed a strong desire to come back. At the time, the Red Sox were deep into Pablo Sandoval negotiations. I heard but cannot verify Hanley stated he was open to any position, which was how thr LF experiment began.

 

Obviously I am left out of these negotiations, and the only real support has been that Hanley certainly left both money and years on the table to come to Boston. And he hasn't shown anything remotely resembling an attitude problem, despite many fans trying to paint him exactly that way...

[moonslav59]

Thanks Ben

 

Ben swapped Pablo and HRam for CC and Beckett.

 

You never give the same thanks to Theo.

 

Ben clearly screwed up- more than once. No doubt.

 

He did, however, leave a lot of top prospects for DD to deal away- something Theo didn't leave as much of to DD.

[cp176]

I heard Hanley contacted the Red Sox and expressed a strong desire to come back. At the time, the Red Sox were deep into Pablo Sandoval negotiations. I heard but cannot verify Hanley stated he was open to any position, which was how thr LF experiment began.

 

Obviously I am left out of these negotiations, and the only real support has been that Hanley certainly left both money and years on the table to come to Boston. And he hasn't shown anything remotely resembling an attitude problem, despite many fans trying to paint him exactly that way...

 

I didn't hear any of the things that you said that you heard but I hope that they were accurate.

[a700hitter]

Ben swapped Pablo and HRam for CC and Beckett.

 

You never give the same thanks to Theo.

 

Ben clearly screwed up- more than once. No doubt.

 

He did, however, leave a lot of top prospects for DD to deal away- something Theo didn't leave as much of to DD.

Beckett helped bring us a Championship. Crawford was an epic bust.

[notin]

The Pablo contract is and has been very limiting to the team and the moves it could make. Still another year of that. And remember we had to move through the Craig deal and the Castillo deal which had to impact the decision making process involving JH. Hanley at least may have some remaining value but I would hope that his option does't vest. That $22 Million could help us going forward. Now we are also faced with the Price, Thornburg and Pedey uncertainties. We can hope that both will add some value for their money, but long term contracts, especially for pitchers are very risky.

 

A reckless GM can screw up a franchise for years with just a couple of bad moves, even one as wealthy as the Sox.

 

Yet fans still insist the team spend kajillions of dollars to bring in free agents every year to prove that winning trumps making money as a priority. This is in spite of the fact that almost every big money free agent at one point becomes the exact type of hindrance, since most of them are already on the wrong side of 30 and don't have 6 or 7 good years left.

 

And this happens time and time and time again. And somehow fans think their GM is bad to take the 1 or 2 lemons. And now those 2 bad deals are PREVENTING this team from getting better. What a bad GM!! We can't sign the free agents we NEED!!

 

The best way to build a strong team is to avoid any free agent deal longer than 3 years. And have a strong farm. But that method takes too long for most fans...

[Bellhorn04]

The best way to build a strong team is to avoid any free agent deal longer than 3 years. And have a strong farm. But that method takes too long for most fans...

 

There really is no surefire guaranteed method for sustained success, not the way the system is now, as we can see in the fact that no team has been able to repeat since the 2000 Yankees.

 

Avoiding any free agent deals longer than 3 years sounds like a great idea but it's pretty hard to get any top-line players on such deals. It will get you players like Cherington signed in 2013. It worked for one year, not so much after that.

[Bellhorn04]

Even the great Theo (and I do think he's the best) in his Cubs tenure has handed out a couple of contracts to Lester and Heyward that you would have to say were for too long and too much.

[moonslav59]

Beckett helped bring us a Championship. Crawford was an epic bust.

 

Yes, at one time Beckett was on pace for being one of MLB's legendary "money pitchers."

 

I didn't blame Theo for extending him, but the fact is, it was a bad move.

 

Ben inherited two big duds and learned nothing from it.

 

He then left DD two new duds all of his own.

[a700hitter]

Yes, at one time Beckett was on pace for being one of MLB's legendary "money pitchers."

 

I didn't blame Theo for extending him, but the fact is, it was a bad move.

 

Ben inherited two big duds and learned nothing from it.

 

He then left DD two new duds all of his own.

And this is a common story for GM's at the helm of big market teams.