2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[notin]

Some people like to focus on the negative. It's just the way they are. It does not necessarily mean they are not good fans. As for me , when you take over a last place team and win the division two straight years , I don't think there is much reason to complain. Of course we all know that promising prospects were dealt , but quality players were obtained in return. I would say that , at least for now , Dombrowski has done a good job.

 

And some of the complaintsa about Dombrowski are simply not valid. One is he had no plan beyond Sandoval at 3B, which is far from true. Marco Hernandez was clearly Plan B, and probably just a stopgap for Devers, who was also very liekly on the radar.

 

It looked to me like there was a clear plan if Sandoval failed...

[moonslav59]

Wanted to stay under the luxury tax limit. simple

 

We could have stayed under had we not kept Abad and Holt, not signed Moreland and not traded for Nunez, Reed and Davis.

[moonslav59]

I agree with Kimmi's point of view. We were a good team last year and may well get more from some of our younger guys this coming season, especially with a new coaching approach. I am fine with the idea of making a few lower impact deals, like Santana, Nunez or others at that level and also shoring up the BP. I don't like the idea of signing long term high financial impact deals for players who will be in their upper 30's before the contract ends. We made mistakes in the past and should have learned from them.

 

Wasn't Nunez going to have off season knee surgery? I haven't heard anything.

[cp176]

What I really like about DD is that none of us meatballs here have one single clue as to what he might do. It is entirely possible that JH has given him the green light to spend any and all that he wants, budget be damned. You (we don't ) don't know. All of this conjecture and pretend is fun for sure but that really is what it is. For those of you who think that you are the brains behind what might happen because you have worked out the figures so it is pretty obvious as to what we have to spend, good luck with that. We all recognize our needs. Not some new pit of revelation. We all are probably on the same page when it comes to signing older veterans to long range contracts. Not stunning - not new. What we don't know is what is going on with DD and JH when it cones to how they feel this club can be improved and how much money it will take. They might do a lot and they might do very little as well! It is going to be interesting.

[notin]

What I really like about DD is that none of us meatballs here have one single clue as to what he might do. It is entirely possible that JH has given him the green light to spend any and all that he wants, budget be damned. You (we don't ) don't know. All of this conjecture and pretend is fun for sure but that really is what it is. For those of you who think that you are the brains behind what might happen because you have worked out the figures so it is pretty obvious as to what we have to spend, good luck with that. We all recognize our needs. Not some new pit of revelation. We all are probably on the same page when it comes to signing older veterans to long range contracts. Not stunning - not new. What we don't know is what is going on with DD and JH when it cones to how they feel this club can be improved and how much money it will take. They might do a lot and they might do very little as well! It is going to be interesting.

 

That might all be a good reason to NOT like him. After all of the names and varying degrees of projected success throughout all the scenarios discussed on here, if he goes off-script, I'm not so sure I have faith.

 

Like if he goes and trades Bradley and Groome for Miguel Cabrera, I will single-handedly start the online petition to get him fired....

[oldtimer]

Wasn't Nunez going to have off season knee surgery? I haven't heard anything.

 

I haven't either and signing him would have to take into account his health and whether he has made a recovery. He may be hard to sign anyway after his stellar performance for the Sox in 2017. If not him then I would look for another to be able to fill in at short or second and be a solid bat like Nunez.

[oldtimer]

What I really like about DD is that none of us meatballs here have one single clue as to what he might do. It is entirely possible that JH has given him the green light to spend any and all that he wants, budget be damned. You (we don't ) don't know. All of this conjecture and pretend is fun for sure but that really is what it is. For those of you who think that you are the brains behind what might happen because you have worked out the figures so it is pretty obvious as to what we have to spend, good luck with that. We all recognize our needs. Not some new pit of revelation. We all are probably on the same page when it comes to signing older veterans to long range contracts. Not stunning - not new. What we don't know is what is going on with DD and JH when it cones to how they feel this club can be improved and how much money it will take. They might do a lot and they might do very little as well! It is going to be interesting.

 

I agree with your thoughts and as fans we can speculate, but in reality DD has to do the best he can with the parameters set for him. I don't think he is stupid and therefore his decisions will be made as the realities of the situation become available. My only issue with his approach to date has been the big long term contract he gave to Price. That is not because it hasn't worked out so far, it is just the nature of giving a guy a long contract at big bucks that will limit what the team can do moving forward. I hope Price can give us something for at least a few years to come but am sceptical of that coming to pass.

[jacksonianmarch]

I haven't either and signing him would have to take into account his health and whether he has made a recovery. He may be hard to sign anyway after his stellar performance for the Sox in 2017. If not him then I would look for another to be able to fill in at short or second and be a solid bat like Nunez.

 

there was a footnote during the ALCS saying that his injury did not require surgery and that he should heal with rehab

[moonslav59]

If Nunez needs time to recover, he's not a good choice to take Pedey's spot on opening day.

 

I'm not sure anyone knows what his knee will be like by April.

[notin]

If Nunez needs time to recover, he's not a good choice to take Pedey's spot on opening day.

 

I'm not sure anyone knows what his knee will be like by April.

 

Kind of hoping for Jose Miguel Fernandez to get signed and enter the 2b competition....

[moonslav59]

Kind of hoping for Jose Miguel Fernandez to get signed and enter the 2b competition....

 

I'll take your word for it.

 

I've always been high on Marco, but it can't hurt to add another contender.

[Bellhorn04]

That might all be a good reason to NOT like him. After all of the names and varying degrees of projected success throughout all the scenarios discussed on here, if he goes off-script, I'm not so sure I have faith.

 

Like if he goes and trades Bradley and Groome for Miguel Cabrera, I will single-handedly start the online petition to get him fired....

 

But he has no history of making idiotic trades like that AFAIK...

[notin]

But he has no history of making idiotic trades like that AFAIK...

 

There may be a blind spot to idiocy when it comes to Cabrera.

 

Most of us look at Cabrera's contract and think it's horrible. That 34yo Cabrera is owed $182mill over the next six years is crazy.

 

But Dombrowski is the guy who wrote that contract and might not think its so crazy...

[Bellhorn04]

There may be a blind spot to idiocy when it comes to Cabrera.

 

Most of us look at Cabrera's contract and think it's horrible. That 34yo Cabrera is owed $182mill over the next six years is crazy.

 

But Dombrowski is the guy who wrote that contract and might not think its so crazy...

 

No, that was a terrible contract, I'm not disputing that. But most GM's of franchises with money have inked terrible contracts.

 

It's not the same as trading significant talent and taking on the back end of such a contract at the same time.

[notin]

No, that was a terrible contract, I'm not disputing that. But most GM's of franchises with money have inked terrible contracts.

 

It's not the same as trading significant talent and taking on the back end of such a contract at the same time.

 

True, and I hope Dombrowski feels that way.

 

He could unload every bad Sox contract (Ramirez, Sandoval, Castillo) for Cabrera and it still wouldn't be worth it...

[moonslav59]

True, and I hope Dombrowski feels that way.

 

He could unload every bad Sox contract (Ramirez, Sandoval, Castillo) for Cabrera and it still wouldn't be worth it...

 

Pretty amazing.

 

I sure hope we are not going to be viewing the Price contract in a similar way to the Miggy deal.

[Larry Cook]

If healthy Cabrera could be a dangerous dh. The biggest problem is that unlike Ortiz, Cabrera’s bat speed is slowing down.

[moonslav59]

If healthy Cabrera could be a dangerous dh. The biggest problem is that unlike Ortiz, Cabrera’s bat speed is slowing down.

 

His biggest problem is his 2 herniated back discs.

 

(My guess is that the reduced bat speed is related to his messed up back.)

[jacksonianmarch]

The first free agent signed!!!!! Huge news!!!!

 

Doug Fister signed a 1 yr deal worth $4 mil with the Rangers. It carries a team option for $7 mil for 2019.

[moonslav59]

The first free agent signed!!!!! Huge news!!!!

 

Doug Fister signed a 1 yr deal worth $4 mil with the Rangers. It carries a team option for $7 mil for 2019.

 

What a "bargain!".

 

(Just kidding.)

[Jack Flap]

I'm sure that was the big domino whose fall the rest of the baseball world was waiting for.

 

Not too bad for a guy who had to take a minor league deal in 2017...

[jacksonianmarch]

Everyone was waiting for Fister to sign! The roadblock is gone!! /sarcasm

[a700hitter]

Everyone was waiting for Fister to sign! The roadblock is gone!! /sarcasm

The market has been set!

[Bellhorn04]

I'm sure that was the big domino whose fall the rest of the baseball world was waiting for.

 

Not too bad for a guy who had to take a minor league deal in 2017...

 

It's strange, the Sox can't seem to develop young pitchers, but they have resurrected a couple of older pitchers recently with Rich Hill and now Fister.

[Nick]

I get it that not everyone here is enamored with what's been done by DD despite winning back to back division championships. I'm going to give him a pat on the back because I think he did what he had to do. We also showed some restraint by resetting the luxury tax penalty rate in 2017.

 

As Bellhorn04 points out, Sox has really struggled with developing young pitchers. And I'm not really sure why. You would have thought with God as our GM not long ago, we would have had plethora of young starters lined up.

 

I'm still not buying the 'impending cliff' theory though.

 

I would argue that 'varsity' team should on the average have one positional rookie or near rookie inserted into starting lineup every year. We're on target with this with additions of Beni in 2017 and now Devers in 2018. That's on the heels of adding Betts, Xander and JBJ in 2014/2015 seasons. Vazquez and Leon also came along at the same time. Sam Travis would have been another potential candidate for 2018 but I'm sure it's even a 50/50 proposition at this time. Maybe he'll recover fully for 2019 season. Blacke Swihart should have been in the mix by now but realistically he's behind Vazques at this point and may never recover.

 

Concern now is that we won't be able to sign some of our position players when they become free agents. I would argue that any player lost via free agency should be replaced by acquiring another free agent. We have the money to do it unless it's spent all on starting pitching.

 

Sox should also be able to insert a young starting pitcher every other year. I will pretend E Rod is our own guy, having acquired him via a trade for Miller. But this area has been our biggest failure and it's cost us dearly. Price, Pom and Sale additions were expensive in terms of prospects given up and/or contractual obligation incurred. We potentially lose out on Pom after 2018. Let's hope someone steps up for 2019. (no it won't be Groomes)

 

I get what Kimmie is saying and I agree with her approach, it's also my Plan A. But failure to develop young talent on consistent basis in a TIMELY manner has made DD go to Plan B. And Plan A people don't like it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Nick

[Kimmi]

I'm sure that was the big domino whose fall the rest of the baseball world was waiting for.

 

Not too bad for a guy who had to take a minor league deal in 2017...

 

Good for Fister.

[Kimmi]

I get what Kimmie is saying and I agree with her approach, it's also my Plan A. But failure to develop young talent on consistent basis in a TIMELY manner has made DD go to Plan B. And Plan A people don't like it.

 

I assume you are talking about developing pitching talent, because the Sox have been developing position players in a consistent and timely manner. Part of the reason for not developing pitchers consistently is because the Sox' philosophy was to draft the best player regardless of position or need. The team could then trade from a position of strength for a position of need.

 

If we take the Sale trade in and of itself, I really don't have a problem with it. I do understand that part of having a strong farm system is to use some of the pieces in trades. It's the magnitude of prospects that Dombrowski traded away that I don't like. A GM cannot decimate the farm like that.

[Jasonbay44]

Dammit!!! Now this off season just got a lot tougher, replacing Fister wont be easy. Rangers get an ace for 4 million a year, what a steal!

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure who we can expect to step into the starting line-up from the farm this year or next or even the year after.

 

I guess maybe Chavis, Travis or Ockimey might take HRam's place, or Chatham for Bogey, but I'm not seeing the same level as Betts, JBJ, Bogey, Beni & Devers now that DD traded away Moncada, Dubon, Asuage and the Basabe brothers, not to mention Travis Shaw.

 

I'm pretty certain Ben would have traded some prospects, but this would not have looked too bad:

DH Moncada

C Vaz-Leon

1B T Shaw

2B Pedey-Asuaje

3B Devers

SS Bogey then Dubon

LF Beni-Basabe

CF JBJ

RF Betts

 

I'm not bashing DD's trades as a whole. I loved the sale trade and was okay with the Thornburg deal. I hated the Pom & Kimbrel trades but knew they would both help us for the 3 years of control each brought with them.

 

The point about not developing young pitchers is as true as true can be.

 

[a700hitter]

Dammit!!! Now this off season just got a lot tougher, replacing Fister wont be easy. Rangers get an ace for 4 million a year, what a steal!

A hole has been created in our roster.