2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

Espinoza will not even be Pitching this year. TJS is much better these days, but it's never a sure thing. He'll be 21 when he starts all over again, clock starts running quickly about that time.

 

What a shame. He has so much promise.

[OH FOY]

What about Urias? That's a real shame. Shoulder too, that could be devastating. Espinoza not done yet, could make him a Reliever, which is what I thought he would be best at.

[Kimmi]

I'm about 99% sure Dombrowski will acquire a starting pitcher fairly soon. I'm even wondering if he's trying to talk John Henry into springing for Cobb or Lynn and incurring the tax penalties that would go along with that.

 

I think Dombrowski will add a pitcher fairly soon too, but I don't think it will be one of the top remaining names (Arrieta, Cobb, Lynn). Unless there is some way that one of them could be added without incurring the next level of tax penalties. The penalties at the next level are just too steep.

 

A quick check gives me these names as free agent starters who are still unsigned:

 

Trevor Cahill

Scott Feldman

Matt Garza

Jeremy Hellickson

Ubaldo Jimenez

John Lackey

 

I wonder if any of them would be open to a minor league deal, with maybe a June opt out if they haven't been called up yet.

[Larry Cook]

It's not really the financial penalties for going $40M over the limit that are worrisome, it's the draft and international signing pools that would be most hurtful, especially to a team looking at a cliff and many claiming we will rebuild the farm somehow- some way. This is not a step that would help us rebuild farm.

 

It would be nice if dave had a plan but that is just too much to ask for at this point.

[Nick]

It would be nice if dave had a plan but that is just too much to ask for at this point.

 

Yeah after winning back to back division titles, he has no plans. You're act is getting old. If you think you're smarter, why don't you go get a job in Sox front office? It's one thing to opine, but you have absolute no proof to back it up. How's that Pom deal working out so far?

[moonslav59]

It is a bit worrisome to be almost $40M over the luxury tax budget and not be a top 2 or 3 MLB contender.

 

I can see someone having issues with the "plan", but to say DD has no plan is wildly inaccurate.

[dgalehouse]

I think the plan is to avoid signing mediocre has beens for stand by duty at Pawtucket. Seems like a good plan .

[moonslav59]

I think the plan is to avoid signing mediocre has beens for stand by duty at Pawtucket. Seems like a good plan .

 

I'm almost certain DD signs a "has been" to stash in AAA as insurance.

[notin]

I think the plan is to avoid signing mediocre has beens for stand by duty at Pawtucket. Seems like a good plan .

 

And therefore to give potential September pennant race starts to untried mediocre rookies with no other options?

 

Seems like a bad plan to me. ..

[Kimmi]

I think the plan is to avoid signing mediocre has beens for stand by duty at Pawtucket. Seems like a good plan .

 

Not building any veteran depth is a good plan?

[Kimmi]

And therefore to give potential September pennant race starts to untried mediocre rookies with no other options?

 

Seems like a bad plan to me. ..

 

Correct. And to your credit, you have been talking about this since October.

[notin]

Not building any veteran depth is a good plan?

 

Especially since it has worked in the past multiple times, as recently as last year with Doug Fister. ..

[Kimmi]

Especially since it has worked in the past multiple times, as recently as last year with Doug Fister. ..

 

And there is no downside/harm to signing these guys to minor league deals.

[Nick]

It is a bit worrisome to be almost $40M over the luxury tax budget and not be a top 2 or 3 MLB contender.

 

I can see someone having issues with the "plan", but to say DD has no plan is wildly inaccurate.

 

$40M is on Ben for Hanley and Sandoval.

[Kimmi]

$40M is on Ben for Hanley and Sandoval.

 

Hanley is going to rake this year.

[moonslav59]

$40M is on Ben for Hanley and Sandoval.

 

Yes, but so are some of our best players, and Ben's prospects helped DD get Sale, Pom & Kimbrel.

[Hugh2]

I think the plan is to avoid signing mediocre has beens for stand by duty at Pawtucket. Seems like a good plan .

 

Alternatively, how would you build depth in AAA? in the absence of MLB ready talent I think mediocre and has-beens are pretty much all you got. Can't hurt the MLB team in Pawtucket, and you might catch lightening in a bottle. Depth can make a big difference by the time you tally up 162 games at the end of the year.

[moonslav59]

Alternatively, how would you build depth in AAA? in the absence of MLB ready talent I think mediocre and has-beens are pretty much all you got. Can't hurt the MLB team in Pawtucket, and you might catch lightening in a bottle. Depth can make a big difference by the time you tally up 162 games at the end of the year.

 

Yes, indeed.

 

We had good luck with Fister, Rich Hill and Franklin Morales, but not such good luck with Aaron Cook, Sean O'Sullivan, Byrd and Colon.

[notin]

$40M is on Ben for Hanley and Sandoval.

 

Those have been bad deals so far. Sandoval is a lost cause, but Hanley at least has a final chance to redeem himself.

 

But more important - both deals are here and on the books. Pointing fingers at Cherington doesn't increase Dombrowski's budget. ..

[Nick]

Yes, but so are some of our best players, and Ben's prospects helped DD get Sale, Pom & Kimbrel.

 

Yes but you were specifically pointing out the $40M overpay.

 

Be specific how you would have put the team together after finishing dead last 3 out of 4 years without adding payroll. I know you think we overpaid for Price. But by how much? How would you know what the others were offering? Are you adept at knowing exactly when the market is at the highest and the lowest? Are you a mind reader?

 

DD was hired to GET THE f*** OUT OF THE BASEMENT. Maybe you guys enjoy watching crappy ass baseball but I like current team better.

[notin]

Yes but you were specifically pointing out the $40M overpay.

 

Be specific how you would have put the team together after finishing dead last 3 out of 4 years without adding payroll. I know you think we overpaid for Price. But by how much? How would you know what the others were offering? Are you adept at knowing exactly when the market is at the highest and the lowest? Are you a mind reader?

 

DD was hired to GET THE f*** OUT OF THE BASEMENT. Maybe you guys enjoy watching crappy ass baseball but I like current team better.

 

The post he responded to actually disagreed with the accusation that DD had no plan.

 

But the reality is, the Sox might end up $40million over the Luxury Tax limit and, if things break wrong, might miss the post - season in the process. And it would be stupid to do so because DD refused to get any depth.

 

And blaming Cherington doesn't change the budget or the need for depth. ..

[moonslav59]

The post he responded to actually disagreed with the accusation that DD had no plan.

 

But the reality is, the Sox might end up $40million over the Luxury Tax limit and, if things break wrong, might miss the post - season in the process. And it would be stupid to do so because DD refused to get any depth.

 

And blaming Cherington doesn't change the budget or the need for depth. ..

 

Yes, I agreed DD has a plan.

 

I'd have done a few things differently, and I've been very specific about those ideas.

 

Once DD decided to sacrifice some of the extended future for a 3-4 year window, I have praised him for the moves he's made. Playing it halfway would have been worse.

 

It's hard to be critical of the Sale or Pom trades, especially before we see what the prospects we gave up become. The Kimbrel trade looks much better now, since closer costs have sky-rocketed after the deal. His only bad move looks like the Thornburg trade and maybe the Price signing, and both still have time to turn around.

 

[moonslav59]

Yes but you were specifically pointing out the $40M overpay.

 

Is it wrong to point out that an argument could be made that a team outspending other top spenders by $40M should probably be a top 2 or 3 contender?

 

That's all I did. I didn't even say I agreed with anyone making that argument.

 

DD has a plan. He has pushed hard for a ring in a 3 or 4 year window, and one year has gone by.

 

I like our chances in the next 2-3 years. I'm happy with what DD has done. I'm miles and miles away from calling for his departure.

[moonslav59]

Those have been bad deals so far. Sandoval is a lost cause, but Hanley at least has a final chance to redeem himself.

 

But more important - both deals are here and on the books. Pointing fingers at Cherington doesn't increase Dombrowski's budget. ..

 

Ben had some big contracts on the roster he inherited as well. He also had a depleted farm and so had no real trade options. He had to go the free agent route.

 

That doesn't excuse the poor FA choices he made, but it did make sense to wait a year to sign a pitcher as the market was loaded his second year and go for offense year 1.

 

[dgalehouse]

Our core staff is Sale , Price , Pomeranz and Porcello . Rodriguez and Wright are expected back soon . We have backups like Johnson and Velasquez. I might be forgetting one or two others. And a deep bullpen. Also , some young prospects who could help at some point. Exactly how many injuries are we anticipating ? Why do we need " depth guys " , aka veteran ham and eggers , to take up roster space at Pawtucket ? Worse comes to worse , you can always pick up one of these guys on the cheap. Now , if we can afford to acquire a quality arm , I'm in . But the notion that we need to stock the farm with a few castoffs in case of emergency borders on hoarding disorder. Use Pawtucket to develop guys with a future , not a ( mediocre ) past.

[moonslav59]

Our core staff is Sale , Price , Pomeranz and Porcello . Rodriguez and Wright are expected back soon . We have backups like Johnson and Velasquez. I might be forgetting one or two others. And a deep bullpen. Also , some young prospects who could help at some point. Exactly how many injuries are we anticipating ? Why do we need " depth guys " , aka veteran ham and eggers , to take up roster space at Pawtucket ? Worse comes to worse , you can always pick up one of these guys on the cheap. Now , if we can afford to acquire a quality arm , I'm in . But the notion that we need to stock the farm with a few castoffs in case of emergency borders on hoarding disorder. Use Pawtucket to develop guys with a future , not a ( mediocre ) past.

 

Well, we have 2 of our best 6 starters out to start the season and Pom has arm tightness. Price is questionable for 28+ starts.

 

Porcello's value is largely an unknown going forward.

 

I'd like some vet depth, but we can't spend much, so I', okay with giving Johnson, Velazquez, Elias and maybe Beeks a look before going out and trading for someone. The longer we wait, the less a good pitcher will count against our budget,

[Natick to NC]

Well, we have 2 of our best 6 starters out to start the season and Pom has arm tightness. Price is questionable for 28+ starts.

 

Porcello's value is largely an unknown going forward.

 

I'd like some vet depth, but we can't spend much, so I', okay with giving Johnson, Velazquez, Elias and maybe Beeks a look before going out and trading for someone. The longer we wait, the less a good pitcher will count against our budget,

 

I'm back ...Here's my question at this point regarding pitching ....How does this new lighter workload for Sale ? For Price ? Effect the bully ? Personally I love the idea of a permanent 6 man rotation period with this team .Velaszquez seems like a decent 6 option but can't we do even better than him ? Wright Could be a disaster he's a knuckleballer who the last time we watched him his knuckler wasn't moving ....he was getting crushed ...Price and Sale I'm counting on but then praying for rain ...Who is on the block a young controllable pitcher that we can target??? Or do we jettison some salary ? Blake makes this team if I'm coaching and yes he's my number 2 catcher ...Cora seems like he won't have the nuts to do that his first year ...we have Nunez and Lin and marrero so to me Holt should be shopped today .....what about going another route and packaging Holt ,Barnes ,a Prospect for A pitcher ?......lastly why not just go after Lackey as a number 5 ? He knows Boston he knows the pressure he doesn't have to be the man here just be a vet with real playoff history and been through the battles ...I feel like this is the year we have to strike and not feel around ..Lackey by most accounts is beloved by his teammates .....Trust me when I say this ..,Lackey ,Bucky,Lester ,Pap and many of the players who leave here may at first show a red ass ....they absolutely miss the atmosphere here ...there's nothing like it ...Erod has never put it together and Rick who's an innings eater is a wildcard ....we are paper thin .Kelly,Barnes are not life lines for this rotation ....they have done a decent job but will be shot from arm fatigue by June .

Edited March 5, 2018 by Natick to NC

[cp176]

I'm chuckling as I read many of these posts. DD gets beat up pretty badly here by some of you folks. Message is that he won't win with you. If his plan is not exactly what you want him to do, you aren't happy. Too bad! I'm pretty sure that he knows exactly what he is doing. You really don't think that he isn't scouring the landscape for potential veteran pitchers who might help us? I thought that at the least he would get some big shoutouts for adding to the analytics team. Not a word. He is a professional who is doing an excellent job.

[jacksonianmarch]

DD came in with the stated plan to win now and he did. You cannot fault him for executing the strategy that he told John Henry he would employ. Some of the prospect huggers wont like it. Some of the people on here thought Ben was building for a 10 yr run of dominance. Well, DD comes in, makes your team win the ALE twice in a row and a strong contender for a 3rd. Yes, he created a window, but JH wanted a winner after 2 yrs of apathy towards the sox. He delivered.

[Hitch]

It is amusing to read opinions of people who think DD just happens to be walking around without any plan, just strolling around, daydreaming his way into situations...

 

I mean it's fine if you don't agree with his plan, but to think a highly respected GM in charge of one of the biggest sports clubs int he world doesn't really think things through or make any plans...what do you say to that? Ha!

 

Anyway, i think bar the odd depth move/minor league deal pitcher acquisition we are done. The payroll is too tight for anything else.