2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

Remember that when we had this Great Farm System the Red Sox were finishing last in their division in two consecutive years.

 

...and a ring before that and the foundation directly responsible for 2 straight divisional champions.

[mvp 78]

...and a ring before that and the foundation directly responsible for 2 straight divisional champions.

 

 

Theo's foundation?

[harmony]

From today's MLB Trade Rumors chat with Steve Adams:

Reykjavic Puffins

3:47

Have you listened yet to the Wheelhouse podcast with Jerry Dipoto?

 

Steve Adams

3:50

I've listened to a few eps and I think it's outstanding. I wish every GM would be so forthcoming in an outlet that is free for anyone to listen to. He offers rare insight into a lot of the Mariners' processes there, and he's also just a genuinely enjoyable guy to listen to. I've interviewed Dipoto a couple of times in the past and found him to be one of the nicer execs I've spoken to -- I think that personable nature translates well into his interviews on those podcasts. I'd recommend them to Mariners fans especially but really just to any fans of baseball who like to see behind the curtain into the GM's day-to-day. It's great stuff.

https://www.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-12-19-17-2850.html

 

This Seattle fan is sorely disappointed with the Mariner off-season so far but I heartily recommend the informative and entertaining podcasts with GM Jerry Dipoto:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/fan_forum/podcasts/index.jsp?c_id=sea&podcast=wheelhouse

 

It's not just for Mariner fans.

[moonslav59]

Theo's foundation?

 

Kind of. The foundation for our two division wins were largely based on Ben's foundation with a significant input from Theo's players.

 

The 2013 ring was at least 50% on Theo, but if you agree, then certainly Ben & Theo get the lion share of our recent two division wins..

[mvp 78]

Kind of. The foundation for our two division wins were largely based on Ben's foundation with a significant input from Theo's players.

 

LOL NOPE. That 2013 team was largely made up of Theo signings and draftees. Not even close to 50%

[Kimmi]

It is now clear that if Martinez is signed , one outfielder has to go. Most likely JBJ. Personally , I don't think JBJ will bring back a pitcher that would be of much help. To get that , you might have to part with Benintendi instead. I don't see that happening. The only other possibility would be to somehow unload Hanley to make room at DH for J.D. That won't be easy to do , and even if you did , you would basically have last year's team with J.D. at DH instead of Hanley. Would that be enough of an improvement , considering what the opposition has done ?

 

We will see some improvement from some of the guys we already have. That, along with JD, would be enough of an improvement.

 

Or that, along with a #2 pitcher, would be enough of an improvement.

[Kimmi]

Indeed, Adrian Gonzalez posted 6.1 fWAR in his first season in Boston (and 2.8 fWAR in 123 games before his trade to the Dodgers the following year).

 

The first year of J.D. Martinez's pending contract is not the concern ... it's the final years.

 

The Red Sox signed Gonzalez to a seven-year, $154 million extension on April 15, 2011, when Gonzalez was about a year younger than Martinez's current age. The Gonzalez extension covered his age 30-36 seasons. The Martinez contract, starting with his age 30 season in 2018, may or may not approach the Gonzalez contract in dollars and duration.

 

This is why the Sox should absolutely not give JD more than 5 years, and even 5 years is too many. JD may very well become our next dead weight contract.

[moonslav59]

We will see some improvement from some of the guys we already have. That, along with JD, would be enough of an improvement.

 

Or that, along with a #2 pitcher, would be enough of an improvement.

 

I said "at least 50%", but you are right, It's much more than 50 to Theo.

 

I will say, we don't win without the Dodger dump deal AND Uehara (the best closer numbers we've ever had), Vic (.801) and Naps (.842- better than Moreland/HRam) plus to a lesser extent Drew(.777 better than the 2017 Bogey), Gomes (.771), Carp (.885 OPS), Peavy and converting Andrew Miller from a failed SP'er to an awesome RP'er.

 

[baseball jones]

This is why the Sox should absolutely not give JD more than 5 years, and even 5 years is too many. JD may very well become our next dead weight contract.

 

i could'nt agree more with you on this and why trade a young player who's better than him to make room for him.everything about this guy says pass to me. if we're going to sign someone for hundreds of millions they have to be a real difference maker in all aspects.JD is not that guy

[Larry Cook]

Besides us, what other teams are realistic players for JD? The giants? Do we really believe JD will have any success going the other way in San fran’s Park? I don’t.

 

Hope dave can do the math on this and not burn us,

[jacksonianmarch]

JD will have success offensively in any park. To this point, Boras is dragging this out. My guess is because JD has instructed him to try and get him onto an NL team so he can play the field. I anticipate there will be a premium for any AL team, especially one that looks to use him as a DH.

 

As an aside, if JD Martinez is staring $25 mil a year in the face, just consider the bargain Big Papi was. Holy s*** that guy was underpaid

[Larry Cook]

JD will have success offensively in any park. To this point, Boras is dragging this out. My guess is because JD has instructed him to try and get him onto an NL team so he can play the field. I anticipate there will be a premium for any AL team, especially one that looks to use him as a DH.

 

As an aside, if JD Martinez is staring $25 mil a year in the face, just consider the bargain Big Papi was. Holy s*** that guy was underpaid

 

Ortiz was unique that is for sure,

 

But JD loves to hit the other way and I thcan no only three guys hit opposite field taters in San fran’s Park all year last year. It just does not seem like a good fit for JD.

 

Now if JD winds up in Arlington or Baltimore, look out for tons of taters!

[moonslav59]

He falls to the last guy standing for peanuts (compared to early winter projections).

[FredLynn]

This is why the Sox should absolutely not give JD more than 5 years, and even 5 years is too many. JD may very well become our next dead weight contract.

 

We will not get him for less than five years; we will likely not even get him for that many years (5). While I agree with you that he isn't worth a long contract at high AAV, thats what it will take to sign him. If we do not improve offensively its going to be a long long summer.

[moonslav59]

We will not get him for less than five years; we will likely not even get him for that many years (5). While I agree with you that he isn't worth a long contract at high AAV, thats what it will take to sign him. If we do not improve offensively its going to be a long long summer.

 

I can see him getting 5, because most teams will offer just a little more for the 6th year.

 

Maybe the Sox offer $28M x 4 and he takes it over $25M x 5 offered by someone else- not yet named.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is why the Sox should absolutely not give JD more than 5 years, and even 5 years is too many. JD may very well become our next dead weight contract.

 

To be honest with you, the team is heading into salary cap hell anyway and they need to win now. If JD is out of his mind for 2 seasons and sucks for 3, yet you get a title out of it then drop off into mediocrity, is it that bad? You have to win now.

[cp176]

5 years is fine.

[Jack Flap]

To be honest with you, the team is heading into salary cap hell anyway and they need to win now. If JD is out of his mind for 2 seasons and sucks for 3, yet you get a title out of it then drop off into mediocrity, is it that bad? You have to win now.

 

So what you're saying is that we are headed towards a steep, vertical, or overhanging face of rock, earth, or ice, perhaps even a precipice?

[harmony]

The Red Sox signed Adrian Gonzalez to a seven-year, $154 million extension on April 15, 2011, when Gonzalez was about a year younger than Martinez's current age. The Gonzalez extension covered his age 30-36 seasons. The Martinez contract, starting with his age 30 season in 2018, may or may not approach the Gonzalez contract in dollars and duration.

As with Adrian Gonzalez, the Red Sox would be the fourth MLB organization for J.D. Martinez, a somewhat unusual fact for coveted players of their ages.

[Spudboy]

5 years is fine.

 

I'm fine with 5 years even though I hate long term deals for big money and especially for players at or over 30.

 

I have doubts about Borass and JD signing a deal for "only" 5 years but it could happen. Most likely he will get 6 anyway. I would walk away from 6 or 7 because I think it is most likely he won't be worth jack s*** by then.

 

I am one of the people that have been belly aching for a power bat or somehow more power. But I say stay away from this guy if signing him to another stupid crippling long term deal is necessary.

[mvp 78]

To be honest with you, the team is heading into salary cap hell anyway and they need to win now. If JD is out of his mind for 2 seasons and sucks for 3, yet you get a title out of it then drop off into mediocrity, is it that bad? You have to win now.

 

Why salary cap hell? You think Xander and JBJ are still going to break the bank?

[mvp 78]

I'm fine with 5 years even though I hate long term deals for big money and especially for players at or over 30.

 

I have doubts about Borass and JD signing a deal for "only" 5 years but it could happen. Most likely he will get 6 anyway. I would walk away from 6 or 7 because I think it is most likely he won't be worth jack s*** by then.

 

I am one of the people that have been belly aching for a power bat or somehow more power. But I say stay away from this guy if signing him to another stupid crippling long term deal is necessary.

 

It's not one deal that will cripple this team, it's if they make multiple crippling deals (i.e. overpay for Hosmer and JD and still have to worry about Price sitting on the DL).

[a700hitter]

Longoria to the Giants for Christian Arroyo and Denard Span.

[moonslav59]

Longoria to the Giants for Christian Arroyo and Denard Span.

 

Wow!

 

This was the season to have a deep farm!

[mvp 78]

Wow!

 

This was the season to have a deep farm!

 

The Rays weren't sending him to BOS. Not a chance.

[mvp 78]

@mike_petriello

 

A very fun an extreme troll-face fact is that Denard Span out-hit Evan Longoria in 2017...

 

Span: .272/.329/.427 102 wRC+

Longoria: .261/.313/.424 96 wRC+

 

Longoria is probably the most overrated 3b playing right now.

[Bellhorn04]

@mike_petriello

 

A very fun an extreme troll-face fact is that Denard Span out-hit Evan Longoria in 2017...

 

Span: .272/.329/.427 102 wRC+

Longoria: .261/.313/.424 96 wRC+

 

Longoria is probably the most overrated 3b playing right now.

 

You really like that word.

[mvp 78]

You really like that word.

 

I efffffing love it because it conveys so much.

[Bellhorn04]

I efffffing love it because it conveys so much.

 

You can't beat it for vagueness and sweeping generalization.

[dgalehouse]

Wow!

 

This was the season to have a deep farm!

 

So we could harvest it for Longoria instead of wasting it on the likes of Sale and Kimbrel ?