2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Bellhorn04]

While I totally get what you're saying about big move withdrawal, I'm at the point of hoping for any move.

 

Its Christmas Eve and so far the biggest actual addition to the organization is Esteban Quiroz, a guy none of us baseball junkies even heard of 8 weeks ago. I get why a big bat hasn't been added. But is it so necessary to pretend EVERYTHING hinges on that one puzzle piece?

 

Yes, it might be just about time for someone to give Dave Dolittle a nudge and remind him there's an offseason goin' on.

[moonslav59]

It's all about JD.

 

I think DD is doing the right thing by waiting it out and not bidding against himself.

 

We are lucky the Yanks, Dodgers and others are all looking to reset the tax this winter. Play it for all it's worth.

 

Once the JD card is played there will be a flurry of signings.

[Elktonnick]

It's all about JD.

 

I think DD is doing the right thing by waiting it out and not bidding against himself.

 

We are lucky the Yanks, Dodgers and others are all looking to reset the tax this winter. Play it for all it's worth.

 

Once the JD card is played there will be a flurry of signings.

 

I certainly agree.

[notin]

It's all about JD.

 

I think DD is doing the right thing by waiting it out and not bidding against himself.

 

We are lucky the Yanks, Dodgers and others are all looking to reset the tax this winter. Play it for all it's worth.

 

Once the JD card is played there will be a flurry of signings.

 

JD Martinez is NOT the reason starting pitcher depth and 2b and minor league free agents and Braves' farm refugees are being ignored.

 

Maybe the fifth starter hinges on the JD Martinez contract. Maybe...

[a700hitter]

One element of change not discussed by any here is the change in management and coaching. Of course they don't stand at the plate, but perhaps in emphasis they will have an impact. whether that is a positive or negative remains to be seen.

Good point. Fundamentally sound base running and fielding would improve the team. Edited December 26, 2017 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

While I totally get what you're saying about big move withdrawal, I'm at the point of hoping for any move.

 

Its Christmas Eve and so far the biggest actual addition to the organization is Esteban Quiroz, a guy none of us baseball junkies even heard of 8 weeks ago. I get why a big bat hasn't been added. But is it so necessary to pretend EVERYTHING hinges on that one puzzle piece?

i’m jonsing for a big move. A lesser move will fix me for a couple or 3 days, but we have a lot of cold dreary days ahead and I need something big.

[a700hitter]

Where I come from, 93 is 2 more than 91.

Noted. IDK why I thought we finished with only a 1 game. Did they have it down to 1 hame that final weekend.

[Larry Cook]

i’m jonsing for a big move. A lesser move will fix me for a couple or 3 days, but we have a lot of cold dreary days ahead and I need something big.

 

You could buy a puppy!

[moonslav59]

JD Martinez is NOT the reason starting pitcher depth and 2b and minor league free agents and Braves' farm refugees are being ignored.

 

Maybe the fifth starter hinges on the JD Martinez contract. Maybe...

 

I think it's all related. If we don't get JD, not only we can afford to get a better 2B solution and 5th starter, we will need to get much better at those positions to make up for a lack of a power upgrade. Maybe we can get a 2/3 starter instead of a 5. Maybe we can get Nunez, so we have someone to cover other slots, if and when Pedey returns.

 

JD signing or not signing affects any further signing we are looking at. Signing JD means we go cheap at SP'er and probably don't even get a 2Bman, until we see how Marco, Brock and others look in April and May,

[OH FOY]

Big market teams are resetting for next years FA's. Smart.

[oldtimer]

I think it's all related. If we don't get JD, not only we can afford to get a better 2B solution and 5th starter, we will need to get much better at those positions to make up for a lack of a power upgrade. Maybe we can get a 2/3 starter instead of a 5. Maybe we can get Nunez, so we have someone to cover other slots, if and when Pedey returns.

 

JD signing or not signing affects any further signing we are looking at. Signing JD means we go cheap at SP'er and probably don't even get a 2Bman, until we see how Marco, Brock and others look in April and May,

 

The Moreland move changed our ability to absorb a big bat like JD. Unless Hanley goes, which is highly unlikely, then JD would move to the outfield if we get him. That triggers a possible change with JBJ. I think most realize those implications, although may be reluctant to see JBJ go. If we don't reach agreement with JD, it would open up that money for a 2nd base strengthening, pitching and perhaps another big left handed bat to part time at DH. I guess it hinges on JD. Tough to be in this position with Boras holding the cards. You wonder when DD will walk away?

 

The other issue is that signing JD may well tie our hands when some attractive FAs come up next year. I guess that is why DD gets the big bucks. Lets hope he earns them.

[cp176]

The Moreland move changed our ability to absorb a big bat like JD. Unless Hanley goes, which is highly unlikely, then JD would move to the outfield if we get him. That triggers a possible change with JBJ. I think most realize those implications, although may be reluctant to see JBJ go. If we don't reach agreement with JD, it would open up that money for a 2nd base strengthening, pitching and perhaps another big left handed bat to part time at DH. I guess it hinges on JD. Tough to be in this position with Boras holding the cards. You wonder when DD will walk away?

 

The other issue is that signing JD may well tie our hands when some attractive FAs come up next year. I guess that is why DD gets the big bucks. Lets hope he earns them.

 

The signing of JD Martinez could be altogether independent of a move of JBJ. His signing does not mean that any imminent move of JBJ or Ramirez is necessary.

[notin]

The signing of JD Martinez could be altogether independent of a move of JBJ. His signing does not mean that any imminent move of JBJ or Ramirez is necessary.

 

If Martinez only signs if he can play the outfield, then dealing Bradley becomes a very likely option. Unless you think dealing Betts or Benintendi makes more sense.

 

Or the Sox could tell Martinez he'll be playing the outfield, but NEVER actually put him there. Which should go over really well....

[cp176]

If Martinez only signs if he can play the outfield, then dealing Bradley becomes a very likely option. Unless you think dealing Betts or Benintendi makes more sense.

 

Or the Sox could tell Martinez he'll be playing the outfield, but NEVER actually put him there. Which should go over really well....

 

I read and understand what you are saying but I don't understand why you would say it. I'm pretty sure that JD has stated his desire to play in the field but not one time have I read that he would not sign for a team if they had another potential plan for him. In all honesty, I don't think there is any way Boston signs a player who makes demands like that. It would make 0 sense regardless of how good he might be. I doubt very much that it would ever happen and I sure hope that it wouldn't. I'll hold the lint with my thinking - I'm not saying that a trade of JBJ to help our team won't happen but signing Martinez doesn't make that a given. Plenty of at bats and playing time for them all. Also, if we are going to just throw statements around here is another one - Martinez might not get signed and JBJ still gets traded! It is possible.

[notin]

I think they sign Martinez and trade Bradley. I don't like that plan but I can't think of another realistic one I like better...

[moonslav59]

The Moreland move changed our ability to absorb a big bat like JD. Unless Hanley goes, which is highly unlikely, then JD would move to the outfield if we get him. That triggers a possible change with JBJ. I think most realize those implications, although may be reluctant to see JBJ go. If we don't reach agreement with JD, it would open up that money for a 2nd base strengthening, pitching and perhaps another big left handed bat to part time at DH. I guess it hinges on JD. Tough to be in this position with Boras holding the cards. You wonder when DD will walk away?

 

The other issue is that signing JD may well tie our hands when some attractive FAs come up next year. I guess that is why DD gets the big bucks. Lets hope he earns them.

 

I also see a squeeze, if we sign JD. Maybe DD has something lined up for trading HRam and saving a few million. I'd hate to trade JBJ, but we do need a solid pitcher, and I think enough GMs want JBJ to make them give up a very good one to get him (maybe we throw in Johnson or Beeks).

 

If we sign JD and don't trade JBJ or HRam, he're how the PAs might be divided:

 

1B: 450 Moreland vs RHPs/ 250 HRam vs LHPs

DH: 500 JD Martinez/ 200 HRam

LF: 550 Beni/ 150 JD Martinez

CF: 550 JBJ/ 100 Beni

RF: 700 Betts

 

Total PAs:

700 Betts

650 JD, Beni

550 JBJ

450 Moreland, HRam (no vest)

 

Note: Beni has not really proven he can hit LHPs well. I'm not advocating a platoon, but we could sit him vs some selective lefties to get JD more time in the OF. We could also sit JBJ a little more often than we normally might do, move Beni to CF and get JD some more extra time in the OF.

 

Career Splits:

vs RHPs/vs LHPs

.838/.583 Beni (only 164 PAs vs LHPs career)

.735/.703 JBJ (JBJ did hit .766 v LHPs this year-- fluke?)

.836/.921 JD Martinez

.833/.859 Betts

 

.779/.675 Moreland

.838/.897 HRam

 

So, basically JD, Betts and HRam play vs all LHPs. 1 out of these three sit whenever a lefty starts: Moreland, JBJ or Beni.

 

Vs. RHPs, when Betts and JD are not getting their normal rest, HRam sits. If JBJ is slumping and HRam is doing well, maybe JBJ sits some vs RHPs.

 

2017 Sox

vs RHPs (75+ PAs unless noted)

.935 Nunez

.813 Beni

.793 Young (weird reverse splits this year)

.784 Moreland

.771 Betts

.769 HRam (another weird reverse split)

.743 Devers

.739 Bogey

.732 Vaz

.729 Pedey

.713 JBJ (another reverse spli)

.692 Pablo

.673 Lin (59 PAs)

.612 Marco (43)

.612 Leon

.536 Rutledge

.518 Holt

.425 Marrero (127 PA of futility)

.290 Travis (35)

 

vs LHPs in 2017 (75+ PAs unless noted)

1.074 Devers (57 PAs)

.958 Travis (48)

.929 Pedey

.944 Marrero (61)

.928 Betts

.777 Bogey

.766 JBJ

.774 Nunez (47)

.680 Holt (30)

.748 Vaz (56)

.732 Leon

.684 Moreland

.622 Beni

.679 HRam

.590 Young

Edited December 25, 2017 by moonslav59

[S5Dewey]

I'm skeptical of a guarantee because never understood why any team would guarantee any player anything. It ties the team's hands too much. Suppose they'd guaranteed Sandoval that he'd be the starting 3Bman all season or guaranteed Hanley that he'd get at least 600 AB's barring injuries.

Isn't that why Rich Hill got away? Because the Sox wouldn't "guarantee" him a starting pitching job?

 

IMHO a player gets signed to do whatever the manager tells him to do, especially when we're talking about $20MM to do it.

[moonslav59]

Are we even sure JD is insisting on guarantees of OF play?

 

If we told him he'd probably get 30 games in the OF with no injuries, might that be enough?

 

I seriously doubt he's asking for more money to DH.

[notin]

 

I seriously doubt he's asking for more money to DH.

 

Funny. That's exactly what I think he's doing. What other leverage does he have?

[cp176]

Are we even sure JD is insisting on guarantees of OF play?

 

If we told him he'd probably get 30 games in the OF with no injuries, might that be enough?

 

I seriously doubt he's asking for more money to DH.

 

 

Where is this coming from- this idea that he is insisting on being able to play in the outfield? I'm sure that if he had a choice he would love to be in that outfield but these very few comments about him "insisting" or "demanding" must either be just made up to rile people up or someone knows something that they really aren't talking about.

[cp176]

I'm skeptical of a guarantee because never understood why any team would guarantee any player anything. It ties the team's hands too much. Suppose they'd guaranteed Sandoval that he'd be the starting 3Bman all season or guaranteed Hanley that he'd get at least 600 AB's barring injuries.

Isn't that why Rich Hill got away? Because the Sox wouldn't "guarantee" him a starting pitching job?

 

IMHO a player gets signed to do whatever the manager tells him to do, especially when we're talking about $20MM to do it.

 

 

Based on what I have read about Martinez, it sounds to me like he is an excellent teammate. In fact, just what we need. If he signs with Boston, sounds to me like he is the kind of guy who will do what is asked of him. These assumptions that what maybe 2 people have made on here are painting a picture of a selfish player and that is horseshit. Does not even deserve the ******** call.

[cp176]

that is what I thought

[Elktonnick]

Martinez is not that bad a defensive outfielder. Defensive metrics especially when one considers Fenway and the wall are not very reliable. If the Sox do land Martinez then Bradley will be shopped. The sox would be a better team with Martinez, Benintendi and Betts in the outfield with HR as the DH and what ever Bradley can bring than Martinez as DH minus HR. HR's salary makes him a less valuable trade asset than JBJ

[Spudboy]

Funny. That's exactly what I think he's doing. What other leverage does he have?

 

He is going to go with the team that offers the most total money.

 

The only leverage he has if any team willing to offer to bid against the Sox.

 

OF vs DH is just ********. I think.

[moonslav59]

Martinez is not that bad a defensive outfielder. Defensive metrics especially when one considers Fenway and the wall are not very reliable. If the Sox do land Martinez then Bradley will be shopped. The sox would be a better team with Martinez, Benintendi and Betts in the outfield with HR as the DH and what ever Bradley can bring than Martinez as DH minus HR. HR's salary makes him a less valuable trade asset than JBJ

 

We're a better team with JBJ in CF than HRam at DH.

 

You are right, though, JBJ will bring a much better return in trade than HRam.

 

The question is, does the trade upgrade outweigh the JBJ vs HRam upgrade?

 

The other option is to keep both. JD can play FT by just giving Moreland and HRam 450 PAs each and JBJ 550.

[notin]

He is going to go with the team that offers the most total money.

 

The only leverage he has if any team willing to offer to bid against the Sox.

 

OF vs DH is just ********. I think.

 

Of course it's ********. But so is Boras' "Mystery Team" tactic that he has employed for years. Saying "my client wants the Sox but prefer not being a DH unless you compensate him for pidgeon-holing his career" is just business as usual for him....

Edited December 26, 2017 by notin

[moonslav59]

Of course it's ********. But so is Boras' "Mystery Team" tactic that he has employed for years. Saying "my client wants the Sox but prefer not being a DH unless you compensate him for pidgeon-holing his career" is just business as usual for him....

 

Well said, and I wouldn't be surprised if there really is never going to be another "mystery team".

[oldtimer]

Of course it's ********. But so is Boras' "Mystery Team" tactic that he has employed for years. Saying "my client wants the Sox but prefer not being a DH unless you compensate him for pidgeon-holing his career" is just business as usual for him....

 

There is a risk for DD and the team to play the Boras's game for JD. At some point he may have to present a take it or leave it offer with a specific time limit and be ready to walk away. The alternative is to shore up 2nd base, add a less expensive power bat and use the remaining money for pitching. JD might then wind up taking less money and a shorter contract to play for a worse team. In any deal, you have to be willing to walk away.

[cp176]

Martinez is not that bad a defensive outfielder. Defensive metrics especially when one considers Fenway and the wall are not very reliable. If the Sox do land Martinez then Bradley will be shopped. The sox would be a better team with Martinez, Benintendi and Betts in the outfield with HR as the DH and what ever Bradley can bring than Martinez as DH minus HR. HR's salary makes him a less valuable trade asset than JBJ

 

As much as I would hate to see JBJ moved - Having an outfield of Martinez,Benintendi, and Betts would be fine in fenway. A solid trade that works for us involving JBJ could only make us a stronger team. I agree with you entirely. And yes before it is pointed out to me, I do indeed understand the great importance of defense and especially defense up the middle.

[Elktonnick]

While Bradley is a very good even outstanding defensive center fielder, I think Red Sox fans tend to over value him. Quite frankly, his inconsistency at the plate drives me batty. I think the sox would be a much better club with him being traded if and when they sign Martinez.