Sox won AL East

[Youk Of The Nation]

We can beat Cleveland. With our pen and Girardi unleashed, I think we can beat them.

 

You don't really believe that any more than I do. The Yankees squeaked into the playoff by the skin of their teeth. Cleveland has proven themselves to be one of the best teams, if not the best team, in the AL. The Yankees are toast. Hell, I think the Sox are probably toast if they meet the Guardians in the ALCS, though I hope I'm incorrect about that. The Sox have a much better chance to beat them than the Yankees do, anyways. The best the Yankees can hope for is to beat the Twins and force at least a 4th game in the ALDS so Judge can start padding his postseason resume.

[Larry Cook]

One series at a time! We need to focus on Houston!

[FredLynn]

Don't forget Ben!

 

I can't remember....where is he working now?

[FredLynn]

Houston and Cleveland in the ALCS.

 

I'm okay with that since I did not expect the Sox to get that far this season anyway.

 

Hats off to David Price.

 

Going into the season I thought that the Sox had the best balanced team in the league. With Price, Sale, the reigning Cy Young winner, and Pomeranz I thought our SP was far and away the best in baseball. Add ERod and Wright and we also were deep. Then Betts, Hanley, Bogaerts, and so forth had down years offensively. I for one expected more....I thought they would be able to contend for a ring. Just happy they beat out the Yankees now.

[jacksonianmarch]

You don't really believe that any more than I do. The Yankees squeaked into the playoff by the skin of their teeth. Cleveland has proven themselves to be one of the best teams, if not the best team, in the AL. The Yankees are toast. Hell, I think the Sox are probably toast if they meet the Guardians in the ALCS, though I hope I'm incorrect about that. The Sox have a much better chance to beat them than the Yankees do, anyways. The best the Yankees can hope for is to beat the Twins and force at least a 4th game in the ALDS so Judge can start padding his postseason resume.

 

We didn’t “squeak” into the playoffs. We have 91 wins and the second best run differential in baseball. We also have the deepest pen of all the teams in the postseason. We clinched a postseason berth over a week ago. Plus, I entirely believe we can beat Cleveland, but we clearly need to take care of business Tuesday before we can talk about that. With our pen, we can have our starter go 4 innings and then just unload with pitchers with big arms and tiny ERA’s. We wouldn’t even need to burn out a guy like the Guardians did with Miller a year ago. Our offense can hit as well and is finally healthy. We also have an ace that can matchup with anyone and a top 3 in Sevy, Gray, and CC that can stand up to all team’s starters except maybe Washington’s. I’m not saying that if we win Tuesday, that we’re locks for the WS. I just don’t think it’s the whitewash you’re proposing.

[cp176]

I am against taking the foot off the pedal.

 

Hammer the 'stros again Sunday.

 

yup

[cp176]

Houston and Cleveland in the ALCS.

 

I'm okay with that since I did not expect the Sox to get that far this season anyway.

 

Hats off to David Price.

 

I'm with you on this one. This team has over achieved all year. I really started to like them after Farrell confronted Pomeranz in the dugout after he appeared upset over the early exit. I don't buy in to the theories that promote the "below their norm" performances by so many of these guys. Statistics can be made to paint the picture that you want to see. Hard to disagree with the facts - I just do in this case I guess. Somebody was able to milk out every last bit of ability that these guys had to give. Regardless of what anybody thinks of his in-game blunders, don't you have to give Farrell and his coaching staff some credit? I do. Now, with all that being said, if I was actually playing or coaching in the American league, the Red Sox would be the team I would least like to play. They are just to0 unpredictable. They could lose early - they could go all the way.

[mvp 78]

Theo's 2011 draft didn't?

 

Zilch. This is DD’s team. The only MLB player left from 2011 is Pedroia. All those MiLB guys were just fungible assets and not Theo guys.

[mvp 78]

We finished in last place...

 

5 times in row (8th out of 8 teams) 1926-1930

(Last in 7 our of 8 and 8 out of 10)

--Carrigan was the manager for 3 straight

--L Fohl for 2 straight

 

What was it like in those years for you?

[Bellhorn04]

Zilch. This is DD’s team. The only MLB player left from 2011 is Pedroia. All those MiLB guys were just fungible assets and not Theo guys.

 

So you're counting Betts as a DD guy. You just have your own little rules for everything, don't you, Guru?

[Navafan29]

Very excited for the playoffs! What a great feel to the season so far... Price's clutch relief appearance felt like a historic moment.

[Kimmi]

I don't know, Cleveland looks the best team in baseball and they were 5-2 against the Yankees this year. But anything can happen.

 

Pretty much nobody, myself included, is giving the Twins a chance against the Yankees. But it's one game, and anything can happen. I'm holding out hope that the Yankees don't even make to Cleveland.

[Kimmi]

So you're counting Betts as a DD guy. You just have your own little rules for everything, don't you, Guru?

 

Even the Dombrowski guys were only made possible because of the strong farm left by Theo and Ben. No Theo and Ben, no Sale or Kimbrel.

[Kimmi]

Very excited for the playoffs! What a great feel to the season so far... Price's clutch relief appearance felt like a historic moment.

 

Price's performance was huge. That was the biggest spot of the game, IMO.

 

I might add that I loved the fist pump after Price struck out Springer on 3 pitches.

[Kimmi]

Now that the division is clinched, there is no need to keep the pedal to the metal for this last game. Rest whoever is tired/injured and needs to be rested. The Astros will be doing the same. The outcome of today's game will have zero impact on the outcome of the division series.

[Bellhorn04]

Even the Dombrowski guys were only made possible because of the strong farm left by Theo and Ben. No Theo and Ben, no Sale or Kimbrel.

 

I agree with that. I think Ben also has to take some negative responsibility for leaving behind a pretty horrible pitching staff and some bad contracts. But he also left behind a lot of good pieces to be sure.

[OH FOY]

Was Margot a Ben pick or Theo's? He was signed in 2011. Edited October 1, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Was Margot a Ben pick or Theo's? He was signed in 2011.

 

July/11, so Theo's.

[OH FOY]

Basically Ben's contributions to this team is Pomeranz, (prospect), Devers (Draft), Benni, (Draft)Holt, (Trade. Bad Trade?) Leon (Trade), and Hanley (FA). About right? Edited October 1, 2017 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

Forgot Porcello, and E-Rod. So he did help. Keep thinking that Ben's biggest mistake was not resigning Miller. A lot of Prospects could have been saved by this one signing. And still got E-rod too. Edited October 1, 2017 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

Theo, Ben, DD

 

The draft Picks:

 

Port:

Lester >Cespedes> Porcello

 

Theo:

Pedey

Ellsbury> Kopech> Sale

Lowrie> Melancon> Holt

Masterson & Hagadone> VMart> Barnes & Owens

C Kelly> AGon> DLR/Webster>Miley>Smith

Workman

Ranaudo> R Ross

Betts

JBJ (Comp pick from losing Beltre)

Shaw> Thornburg

Barnes

Swihart (Comp pick for Beltre)

Owens

N Ramirez

 

Ben

Maddox

Marrero

Johnson (Comp for Papelbon- Theo)

Light (Comp for Papelbon)> Abad

K Martin

Kopech (Comp for Ellsbury-Theo) > C Sale

Chavis

Beni

B Taylor

 

DD

J Groome, Dalbec, Chatham, Shawaryn

Houck, Brannen, Netzer, Thompson, Scherff

 

Some of the players we have now can be partially attributed to all three GMs or 2 of the 3. Even Port plays into our acquisition of Porcello.

 

 

International Signings

Theo

Doubront> Marco Hernandez

Bogaerts

Margot> Kimbrel

 

Ben

Moncada > sale

Castillo

Devers

Espinoza> Pomeranz

Lin

 

DD

Velazquez

Flores

D Diaz

L Mata

 

Trades/Signings

Theo

 

Ben

S Wright (L Anderson-Theo)

Holt (Melancon & others)

Hembree (Peavy

Kelly (Lackey-Theo)

ERod (Miller-Theo)

HRam & Pablo

Porcello (Cespedes

R Ross (Ranaudo-Theo)

 

DD

Kimbrel (Margot, Guerra, Allen & Asuaje- Theo & Ben)

Price

Young

Smith (Miley- Theo & Ben and Aro)

Leon

Pomeranz (Espinoza - Ben)

Abad (Light)

Moreland

Boyer

Fister

Nunez, Reed & Davis

 

As you can see, some of these acquisitions are very nuanced when considering who gets credit for us having them.

 

All three GMs have a major role in the construction of today's roster.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by moonslav59

[FredLynn]

We didn’t “squeak” into the playoffs. We have 91 wins and the second best run differential in baseball. We also have the deepest pen of all the teams in the postseason. We clinched a postseason berth over a week ago. Plus, I entirely believe we can beat Cleveland, but we clearly need to take care of business Tuesday before we can talk about that. With our pen, we can have our starter go 4 innings and then just unload with pitchers with big arms and tiny ERA’s. We wouldn’t even need to burn out a guy like the Guardians did with Miller a year ago. Our offense can hit as well and is finally healthy. We also have an ace that can matchup with anyone and a top 3 in Sevy, Gray, and CC that can stand up to all team’s starters except maybe Washington’s. I’m not saying that if we win Tuesday, that we’re locks for the WS. I just don’t think it’s the whitewash you’re proposing.

 

While I don't think you can justify your statement that the Yankee bullpen is "the deepest of all the teams in the postseason" -I think the Sox with the addition of Price are better, as are the Guardians, I do think that overall, as much as I hate to admit it, the Yankees have a more well rounded team than the Sox do. They are just behind us in overall pitching and much better in hitting; they won the season series from us and have a better run differential than the Sox. I am surprised we finished ahead of them. That said, I hope they lose to the Twins and if that is not possible, I hope they lose to the Guardians as well.

[moonslav59]

While I don't think you can justify your statement that the Yankee bullpen is "the deepest of all the teams in the postseason" -I think the Sox with the addition of Price are better, as are the Guardians, I do think that overall, as much as I hate to admit it, the Yankees have a more well rounded team than the Sox do. They are just behind us in overall pitching and much better in hitting; they won the season series from us and have a better run differential than the Sox. I am surprised we finished ahead of them. That said, I hope they lose to the Twins and if that is not possible, I hope they lose to the Guardians as well.

 

I can see how someone might think the Yanks have the deepest pen in the AL. The Guardians have a deep one, too. With Price and Smith added to the Sox pen, one could claim they are close.

 

Yanks pen:

WHIP pitcher K/9

0.72 Green 13.4

0.73 Robertson 13.1

0.88 Warren 8.5

1.13 Chapman 12.3

1.22 Betances 15.1

1.29 Clippard 10.4

1.32 Kahnle 12.2

1.32 Shreve 11.5

 

Guardians

0.84 Miller 13.5

0.90 J Smith 10.2 (17 IP)

0.97 Olson 7.8

1.08 Goody 11.9

1.18 C Allen 12.2

1.20 Otero 5.7

1.20 Shaw 8.5

1.21 McAllister 9.4

 

Sox

0.58 Price 13.5 (8.2 IP)

0.68 Kimbrel 16.4 (YES! 16.4!!!)

0.87 Maddox 7.3 917.1 IP)

0.93 Reed 9.3

1.02 Scott 7.9

1.15 Workman 8.5

1.18 Abad 7.7

1.19 Kelly 7.9

1.25 Barnes 10.5

1.45 Hembree 10.2

 

Even the Astros have a few very good RP'ers:

 

0.86 Musgrove 8.9 (31 IP)

0.94 Devinski 11.2

0.97 Harris 10.4

1.04 Giles 11.9

1.32 Hoyt 12.0

1.34 Gregerson 10.3

1.39 Sipp 9.4

 

Team Stats

IP

543 HOU

535 NYY

526 BOS

485 CLE

 

WAR

9.1 NYY

8.4 CLE

6.8 BOS

4.5 HOU

 

WHIP

1.15 CLE

1.17 BOS

1.17 NYY

1.28 HOU

 

K/9

10.9 NYY

10.9 HOU

10.0 CLE

9.8 BOS

 

K/BB

3.65 CLE

3.23 BOS

3.09 HOU

2.89 NYY

 

 

ERA-

65 CLE

69 BOS

76 NYY

101 HOU

 

 

[Carpin]

I can see how someone might think the Yanks have the deepest pen in the AL. The Guardians have a deep one, too. With Price and Smith added to the Sox pen, one could claim they are close.

 

Yanks pen:

WHIP pitcher K/9

0.72 Green 13.4

0.73 Robertson 13.1

0.88 Warren 8.5

1.13 Chapman 12.3

1.22 Betances 15.1

1.29 Clippard 10.4

1.32 Kahnle 12.2

1.32 Shreve 11.5

 

Guardians

0.84 Miller 13.5

0.90 J Smith 10.2 (17 IP)

0.97 Olson 7.8

1.08 Goody 11.9

1.18 C Allen 12.2

1.20 Otero 5.7

1.20 Shaw 8.5

1.21 McAllister 9.4

 

Sox

0.58 Price 13.5 (8.2 IP)

0.68 Kimbrel 16.4 (YES! 16.4!!!)

0.87 Maddox 7.3 917.1 IP)

0.93 Reed 9.3

1.02 Scott 7.9

1.15 Workman 8.5

1.18 Abad 7.7

1.19 Kelly 7.9

1.25 Barnes 10.5

1.45 Hembree 10.2

 

Even the Astros have a few very good RP'ers:

 

0.86 Musgrove 8.9 (31 IP)

0.94 Devinski 11.2

0.97 Harris 10.4

1.04 Giles 11.9

1.32 Hoyt 12.0

1.34 Gregerson 10.3

1.39 Sipp 9.4

 

Team Stats

IP

543 HOU

535 NYY

526 BOS

485 CLE

 

WAR

9.1 NYY

8.4 CLE

6.8 BOS

4.5 HOU

 

WHIP

1.15 CLE

1.17 BOS

1.17 NYY

1.28 HOU

 

K/9

10.9 NYY

10.9 HOU

10.0 CLE

9.8 BOS

 

K/BB

3.65 CLE

3.23 BOS

3.09 HOU

2.89 NYY

 

 

ERA-

65 CLE

69 BOS

76 NYY

101 HOU

 

 

 

I didn't know was this close, I thought NYY was better by a wider margin, I still think we have the better BP but not by much, but the difference between BOS/HOU and CLE/NYY is significant

 

the way I see it:

 

1. NYY

2. CLE

3. BOS

4. HOU

 

There are a few things to consider like momentum, the adding of Price to BOS BP (huge), the return of Miller from DL for CLE (don't know if it will affect them), the return to dominance from Chapman in the last two weeks, etc.

[S5Dewey]

One of the things that makes me say "Hmmmm....." in retrospect to the season is how many times this team lost to 'stiff' pitchers and how many times they 'got to' other team's closers. Sometimes it felt like these guys could hit good pitching but not the #3's & 4's. Or maybe that's just the way it felt. I dunno.

[Spudboy]

One of the things that makes me say "Hmmmm....." in retrospect to the season is how many times this team lost to 'stiff' pitchers and how many times they 'got to' other team's closers. Sometimes it felt like these guys could hit good pitching but not the #3's & 4's. Or maybe that's just the way it felt. I dunno.

 

The Sox offense fell flat against almost anyone, I think.

 

Beating up on high end guys and losing to bottom feeders always sticks out.

[a700hitter]

I would not carry on Young on the post season roster. I would prefer to take Rajai Davis as 4th OFer. He has stolen base speed and he is a good fielder too.

[S5Dewey]

I would not carry on Young on the post season roster. I would prefer to take Rajai Davis as 4th OFer. He has stolen base speed and he is a good fielder too.

 

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with Davis. I thought they signed him to be Dave Roberts II and if so they'll have to have him on the roster. If they don't put him on the p/o roster, why did they sign him at all?

[oldtimer]

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with Davis. I thought they signed him to be Dave Roberts II and if so they'll have to have him on the roster. If they don't put him on the p/o roster, why did they sign him at all?

 

When will we know the playoff roster?

[Bellhorn04]

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with Davis. I thought they signed him to be Dave Roberts II and if so they'll have to have him on the roster. If they don't put him on the p/o roster, why did they sign him at all?

 

Yes, he has to be there.