Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[oldtimer]

Interesting story on WEEI which says the Sox management forbade DD from trading any of the top prospects (Groome, Chavis, Devers, Travis) to pick up players are the trade deadline. It is one of the constraints he was under, probably also with financial considerations such as not exceeding the Luxury Tax limits this year. DD did well with those limits imposed on him.

[mvp 78]

Interesting story on WEEI which says the Sox management forbade DD from trading any of the top prospects (Groome, Chavis, Devers, Travis) to pick up players are the trade deadline. It is one of the constraints he was under, probably also with financial considerations such as not exceeding the Luxury Tax limits this year. DD did well with those limits imposed on him.

 

DD went on WEEI and claimed the top prospect stuff is nonsense.

[moonslav59]

So for this pile of ... prospects we got the best pitcher in baseball Chris Sale whose salary is $5 million a year less than Pablo's contracts. We got the best closer in Kimbrel and our current #2 starter for this season (and an All Star in 2016) Drew Pomeranz. What more do you want to get for this pile?

 

They can replenish this most of this pile quite easily over the next couple of years with some smart scouting in the US and internationally.

 

I'm merely showing the "magnitude" of how many prospects were traded away recently.

 

I was 100% on board with the Sale trade, and would be for two more like it.

 

I was against the Kimbrel and Pom trades, but have said many times, the players we got were very good and that the trades look very good so far.

 

Only injuries to Smith and Thornburg and a minor deal that didn't work as planned (A Hill) have appeared negative, so far. Even those trades may be forgotten if Devers makes us not remember Travis Shaw and C Smith can give us something to cheer about, as it's not hard for him to outplay Miley and Aro.

 

I liked the Nunez & A Reed deals, too.

 

I hardly ever like big signings like Price, but at the time I felt it was needed and wrote "a guy like Price doesn't come along that often".

 

When looking at each deal independently, it's hard to fault DD, but when you look at the totality of his moves, it is clear his strategy has been to go for broke on a 3 year window (possibly 4) at the highly probable expense of the extended future. It is what it is, and I'm extremely hopeful we win a ring or 2 in the next 4 playoff cycles. If we don't, DD will be judged harshly by just about everyone, even if "the cliff" turns out to just a hill or a plain.

 

That's the nature of the beast.

 

(Note: "this pile of..." was once a top 3 farm system.)

 

[a700hitter]

I'm merely showing the "magnitude" of how many prospects were traded away recently.

 

I was 100% on board with the Sale trade, and would be for two more like it.

 

I was against the Kimbrel and Pom trades, but have said many times, the players we got were very good and that the trades look very good so far.

 

Only injuries to Smith and Thornburg and a minor deal that didn't work as planned (A Hill) have appeared negative, so far. Even those trades may be forgotten if Devers makes us not remember Travis Shaw and C Smith can give us something to cheer about, as it's not hard for him to outplay Miley and Aro.

 

I liked the Nunez & A Reed deals, too.

 

I hardly ever like big signings like Price, but at the time I felt it was needed and wrote "a guy like Price doesn't come along that often".

 

When looking at each deal independently, it's hard to fault DD, but when you look at the totality of his moves, it is clear his strategy has been to go for broke on a 3 year window (possibly 4) at the highly probable expense of the extended future. It is what it is, and I'm extremely hopeful we win a ring or 2 in the next 4 playoff cycles. If we don't, DD will be judged harshly by just about everyone, even if "the cliff" turns out to just a hill or a plain.

 

That's the nature of the beast.

 

(Note: "this pile of..." was once a top 3 farm system.)

 

Magnitude? That connotes importance. Most of these guys will never have their name sewn on an MLB uniform. What you were demonstrating was "volume" not "magnitude". I liken it to a pile. You attach significance to the pile. I think it to be rather insignificant.

 

(Note: "this pile of..." was once a top 3 farm system.)

 

And let's not forget that some of this top 3 pile (based on opinions) was used to elevate the club from last place to first place (real performance), and I place more importance on the performance of the major league club than the opinions about our farm system. Edited August 3, 2017 by a700hitter

[Slasher9]

DD went on WEEI and claimed the top prospect stuff is nonsense.

 

DD is lying.

he got reigned in. FO told DD "dont be DD".

i love it.

#SAVETHEFARM

[a700hitter]

DD is lying.

he got reigned in. FO told DD "dont be DD".

i love it.

#SAVETHEFARM

I think they told him that they were just fine with last place and that they miss Ben's lattes.

[Slasher9]

I think they told him that they were just fine with last place and that they miss Ben's lattes.

 

i do enjoy a latte.

question though....which one of Ben's seasons did you predict a last place finish for the Red Sox?

[fxkatt]

I think the top prospects we hold onto are the ones we will soon need. Which translates into holding onto to pitchers, esp. starting pitchers, but perhaps trading third-base (Devers excepted, of course) and outfielders. Any rules should be set around future needs, not necessarily around potential greatness. In sum, the availables should be those we foresee as duplicates.

[a700hitter]

i do enjoy a latte.

question though....which one of Ben's seasons did you predict a last place finish for the Red Sox?

I predicted 4th place for each year from 2013-15. I think those predictions are somewhere on TalkSox.

[Kimmi]

Yeah, I'd rather not have Sale or Kimbrel.

 

We can love Sale and Kimbrel all we want. That's not the point.

[a700hitter]

I think the top prospects we hold onto are the ones we will soon need. Which translates into holding onto to pitchers, esp. starting pitchers, but perhaps trading third-base (Devers excepted, of course) and outfielders. Any rules should be set around future needs, not necessarily around potential greatness. In sum, the availables should be those we foresee as duplicates.

The key on the farm is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Slasher9]

I predicted 4th place for each year from 2013-15. I think those predictions are somewhere on TalkSox.

 

no need. i believe you. i had them as a 90+ win team each of those years. the only Ben move i was 100% against was not getting Lester LTC.

i blame the last place finishes more on the players and on field coaching then on Ben. IMO he built a great farm. in everyone's opinion he was GM of a world championship team.

perhaps he gets too much blame for those last place finishes. perhaps i give him too much credit.

[Bellhorn04]

Ben did leave the team pretty destitute in the pitching department.

[Kimmi]

DD went on WEEI and claimed the top prospect stuff is nonsense.

 

It might be a matter of semantics, but I don't think it's nonsense. Dombrowski was probably not forbidden to trade the top prospects, but was probably given a strong directive not to do it unless there was an offer that they just couldn't pass up. In other words, don't do it.

[Spudboy]

So for this pile of ... prospects we got the best pitcher in baseball Chris Sale whose salary is $5 million a year less than Pablo's contracts. We got the best closer in Kimbrel and our current #2 starter for this season (and an All Star in 2016) Drew Pomeranz. What more do you want to get for this pile?

 

They can replenish this most of this pile quite easily over the next couple of years with some smart scouting in the US and internationally.

 

When almost all the enjoyment that you derive from baseball is staring at a computer screen the forecast can seem forbidding.

 

That is why I enjoy watching the games. I get to see and enjoy all the things about the game that stimulate my senses.

 

The amateur draft is part of the randomness of the sport.

 

I'm not losing any sleep.

[Kimmi]

Ben gets too much blame for those last place finishes. He did his job. He built a contender each of those years. The team did not get it done.

[a700hitter]

no need. i believe you. i had them as a 90+ win team each of those years. the only Ben move i was 100% against was not getting Lester LTC.

i blame the last place finishes more on the players and on field coaching then on Ben. IMO he built a great farm. in everyone's opinion he was GM of a world championship team.

perhaps he gets too much blame for those last place finishes. perhaps i give him too much credit.

He was terrible at constructing pitching staffs. I was very active criticizing his construction of the pitching staff. I thought he was clueless in going for volume so-called "depth" over quality.

[mvp 78]

Ben gets too much blame for those last place finishes. He did his job. He built a contender each of those years. The team did not get it done.

 

Ummmmm...

[moonslav59]

I'd have tried to sign Scherzer instead of HRam + Pablo, but with the much greater SP'er FA class coming up the following year, I at least undersstood Ben's plan to build the offense that winter and the staff the next.

 

Lets not forget Ben had a good pitching staff in 2012, and we still finished in last place. He inherited a team with serious flaws, was forced to take on Bobby V, and finished in last place right out of the gate.

 

He didn't have the top prospects DD inherited to make blockbuster deals, even if he wanted to make them.

 

I'm convinced he would have acquired at least one ace his next year, and that he'd have traded several top prospects as well, but we'll never know.

 

His "5-Year plan", as I called it, we never given 5 years.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd have tried to sign Scherzer instead of HRam + Pablo, but with the much greater SP'er FA class coming up the following year, I at least undersstood Ben's plan to build the offense that winter and the staff the next.

 

Lets not forget Ben had a good pitching staff in 2012, and we still finished in last place. He inherited a team with serious flaws, was forced to take on Bobby V, and finished in last place right out of the gate.

 

He didn't have the top prospects DD inherited to make blockbuster deals, even if he wanted to make them.

 

I'm convinced he would have acquired at least one ace his next year, and that he'd have traded several top prospects as well, but we'll never know.

 

His "5-Year plan", as I called it, we never given 5 years.

 

And if he never has another GM job, we will have very little on which to judge his true abilities.

[a700hitter]

Ben gets too much blame for those last place finishes. He did his job. He built a contender each of those years. The team did not get it done.

He built the teams. He gets the blame.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I read this somewhere and it made me want to puke:

 

[Hanley is] on pace for 583 PAs this year, leaving him needing just 467 next year for it to vest.

 

As much as I hate to say it, unless Hanley spends significant time on the DL, it looks like the Red Sox will have to pay him in 2019. Just another dreadful contract decision by Ben Cherrington.

 

But Dombrowski deserves blame too if he lets the option vest. I think Dombrowski blew an opportunity to cheaply acquire L.Duda, a guy who could take at bats away from Hanley this year and keep that option from vesting. Hanley's OPS+ is once again hovering around the 100 mark, which is totally unacceptable. In the meantime, L.Duda, who was having a strong season with the Mets (127 OPS+) is doing really well with the Rays.

 

I suppose the Red Sox could look for a left handed bat (DH type) in the offseason and platoon that player with Hanley. That would keep the option from vesting.

[moonslav59]

I read this somewhere and it made me want to puke:

 

 

 

As much as I hate to say it, unless Hanley spends significant time on the DL, it looks like the Red Sox will have to pay him in 2019. Just another dreadful contract decision by Ben Cherrington.

 

But Dombrowski deserves blame too if he lets the option vest. I think Dombrowski blew an opportunity to cheaply acquire L.Duda, a guy who could take at bats away from Hanley this year and keep that option from vesting. Hanley's OPS+ is once again hovering around the 100 mark, which is totally unacceptable. In the meantime, L.Duda, who was having a strong season with the Mets (127 OPS+) is doing really well with the Rays.

 

I suppose the Red Sox could look for a left handed bat (DH type) in the offseason and platoon that player with Hanley. That would keep the option from vesting.

 

HRam not only need 1050 PAs in 201702018 combined, he also needs to pass the team physical.

 

With his constant shoulder issues, they might already know they have the goods on him to send him packing.

 

If they don't then you are right. We'll need to figure out how to limit HRam's PAs next year.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

In retrospect, knowing what we know now, I think Dombrowski outsmarted Brian Cashman.

 

It looked like the Red Sox were interested in Frazier, but we can now safety assume they weren't. (1) The Red Sox knew that Pedroia needed to go on the DL and so Nunez was the target all along, not Frazier. Nunez can play 2b, Frazier can't. (2) The Red Sox internally decided that Devers would be called up, thus meaning that Frazier wasn't needed. (3) The Yankees acquired Frazier thinking they were taking a player from the Red Sox. And now the Yankees have done something pretty stupid--they have Frazier at 3b and Headley at 1b. A better move: keep Headley at 3b and trade for a guy like Duda (putting up big numbers for Tampa Bay) or Alonso.

 

The Yankees are now stuck with Todd Frazier. The Yankees have given Frazier 53 PA and he is batting under .200 with 1 HR. LOL. I'm unhappy that Dombrowski didn't acquire Duda, but I have to give him credit for running circles around Cashman and for improving the offense with Nunez and Devers.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[mvp 78]

It is interesting how the Yanks "won" the deadline and then went on a losing streak. Funny how that happens a lot.

[Bellhorn04]

It is interesting how the Yanks "won" the deadline and then went on a losing streak. Funny how that happens a lot.

 

The 2014 A's were 66-41 when we traded Lester to them. They went 22-33 the rest of the way.

[Hugh2]

It is interesting how the Yanks "won" the deadline and then went on a losing streak. Funny how that happens a lot.

 

Baseball certainly is a funny game.

[Kimmi]

HRam not only need 1050 PAs in 201702018 combined, he also needs to pass the team physical.

 

With his constant shoulder issues, they might already know they have the goods on him to send him packing.

 

If they don't then you are right. We'll need to figure out how to limit HRam's PAs next year.

 

From what I was reading this morning, Hanley might be hitting the DL with pain in both obliques.

[Kimmi]

In retrospect, knowing what we know now, I think Dombrowski outsmarted Brian Cashman.

 

It looked like the Red Sox were interested in Frazier, but we can now safety assume they weren't. (1) The Red Sox knew that Pedroia needed to go on the DL and so Nunez was the target all along, not Frazier. Nunez can play 2b, Frazier can't. (2) The Red Sox internally decided that Devers would be called up, thus meaning that Frazier wasn't needed. (3) The Yankees acquired Frazier thinking they were taking a player from the Red Sox. And now the Yankees have done something pretty stupid--they have Frazier at 3b and Headley at 1b. A better move: keep Headley at 3b and trade for a guy like Duda (putting up big numbers for Tampa Bay) or Alonso.

 

The Yankees are now stuck with Todd Frazier. The Yankees have given Frazier 53 PA and he is batting under .200 with 1 HR. LOL. I'm unhappy that Dombrowski didn't acquire Duda, but I have to give him credit for running circles around Cashman and for improving the offense with Nunez and Devers.

 

I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that Dombrowski ran circles around Cashman, but I very happy with what Dombrowski did at the deadline, including the pickup of Reed.

 

It's a small sample which is very unlikely to continue at this pace, but our team has been improved nonetheless.

[Kimmi]

It is interesting how the Yanks "won" the deadline and then went on a losing streak. Funny how that happens a lot.

 

It's often not the 'splashy' moves that make a difference, but the more subtle ones.