Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[Hugh2]

A 1B that can pick up the slack with Moreland slumping + Devers might be the spark this team needs

[bowman]

Hope we can somehow get Stanton before the Yankees do and believe me they will try.. If not this year then next.

[MADSTORK]

Good Pitching beats good hitting. I understand there needs to be a balance during the regular season. After 100 games your a playoff Team and a Division Leader despite all the B.S.

Pitching wins and if Henry is serious about a World Series this year you pay zero attention to the "so called" luxury tax..

 

Darvish in Tx would solidify a playoff spot and possibly the AL Pennant. Napoli can play the bag and is still a legit HR threat to spell Moreland and Hanley.. Both 18 free agents.

 

At what cost? Outside of Devers and Mata, anybody they want to include ERod before the knee gives out for good...

[Hugh2]

Good Pitching beats good hitting. I understand there needs to be a balance during the regular season. After 100 games your a playoff Team and a Division Leader despite all the B.S.

Pitching wins and if Henry is serious about a World Series this year you pay zero attention to the "so called" luxury tax..

 

Darvish in Tx would solidify a playoff spot and possibly the AL Pennant. Napoli can play the bag and is still a legit HR threat to spell Moreland and Hanley.. Both 18 free agents.

 

At what cost? Outside of Devers and Mata, anybody they want to include ERod before the knee gives out for good...

 

I don't disagree, but there will be other teams who can pitch come playoff time and we need to hit.

[notin]

A 1B that can pick up the slack with Moreland slumping + Devers might be the spark this team needs

 

Hopefully they can add a bat a maybe a reliever.

 

It doesn't bode well when the savior for the pre-season favorite to win the AL pennant started the season in AA ball...

[Hugh2]

Hopefully they can add a bat a maybe a reliever.

 

It doesn't bode well when the savior for the pre-season favorite to win the AL pennant started the season in AA ball...

 

If only Carson Smith was a few months further along he could really solidly the pen. Or, he could struggle recovering from surgery. The range of outcomes seem wide.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Eric Van, a sabermetric guy who used to work for the Red Sox (posts on soxprospects.com) is against trading for a catcher. This is what he says:

 

When you combine catchers' offensive value as measured by b-Ref, and defensive value as measured by BP (which excludes pitch-calling but includes framing, blocking, and throwing), the Sox rank 17th in MLB. If you buy that some of the tremendous success of the pitching staff is due to pitch-calling, then Vazquez and Leon have been a mild asset. They rank 5th to last in offense but 4th in BP's defense. It's not broken, so you don't fix it. You hope that the pair hits better, as they've shown the capacity to do so in the past.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

EricVan on Mitch Moreland and the injury impacting his numbers.

Mitch Moreland before and after breaking his toe on June 13.

 

What GdToeBdToe

PA 249 124

BA .285 .162

OBP .382 .234

SA .495 .252

wRC+ 127 24

K .229 .242

BB .124 .073

BABIP .349 .188

HR/FB .158 .100

Hard .456 .337

LD .217 .217

GB .420 .422

PU .019 .012

Pull .430 .325

Opp .253 .277

 

His vertical batted ball profile is unchanged, but his plate discipline has fallen off and his hardness of contact has cratered.

 

Trade for a new 1B and put him on the DL until he's not playing in pain. He could be a great bench piece in September. Or not, but he's not useful as a trade piece.

 

The fact that the hardness of his contact has cratered suggests the injury did have an impact on Moreland's numbers. The point I would emphasize is that even when he fully recovers, his hitting mechanics might be so out of whack that the slump will continue. If that is the case, and it might prove be the case, you have to trade for someone, find another starting 1b. L.Duda and Y.Alonso are better than an injured M.Moreland.

[moonslav59]

Eric Van, a sabermetric guy who used to work for the Red Sox (posts on soxprospects.com) is against trading for a catcher. This is what he says:

 

When you combine catchers' offensive value as measured by b-Ref, and defensive value as measured by BP (which excludes pitch-calling but includes framing, blocking, and throwing), the Sox rank 17th in MLB. If you buy that some of the tremendous success of the pitching staff is due to pitch-calling, then Vazquez and Leon have been a mild asset. They rank 5th to last in offense but 4th in BP's defense. It's not broken, so you don't fix it. You hope that the pair hits better, as they've shown the capacity to do so in the past.

 

I wouldn't mess with our pitch-calling tandem.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised, if we end up better than 25th on catcher offense by season's end.

[BstHcpr]

We just went through this whole thing, ad nauseum, about how it's a bad idea to sign players over 30 who are fat and in bad shape to bloated contracts. I cannot believe that anyone would consider taking on that contract.

 

Yes, Miggy has been awesome. Next year, he may very well not be.

 

When you combine catchers' offensive value as measured by b-Ref, and defensive value as measured by BP (which excludes pitch-calling but includes framing, blocking, and throwing), the Sox rank 17th in MLB. If you buy that some of the tremendous success of the pitching staff is due to pitch-calling, then Vazquez and Leon have been a mild asset. They rank 5th to last in offense but 4th in BP's defense. It's not broken, so you don't fix it. You hope that the pair hits better, as they've shown the capacity to do so in the past.

 

I wouldn't mess with our pitch-calling tandem.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised, if we end up better than 25th on catcher offense by season's end.

 

Vazquez and Leon are the worst offensive catching duo by far.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I wouldn't mess with our pitch-calling tandem.

 

I wouldn't either and so I've changed my mind on that matter, but I agree with Eric Van's assessment of Moreland and the need to acquire a starting 1b. I don't trust Moreland the rest of the way and he probably needs a stint on the DL.

 

Vazquez and Leon are the worst offensive catching duo by far.

 

They are terrible with the bats. But I think you live with this now and address it in the off-season. Promote Devers, trade for a starting 1b (Alonso, Duda), and hope that Bogaerts, Benintendi have better months ahead. The catcher position will continue to be a black hole on offense.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[BstHcpr]

I wouldn't either and so I've changed my mind on that matter, but I agree with Eric Van's assessment of Moreland and the need to acquire a starting 1b. I don't trust Moreland the rest of the way.

 

Eric Van said William Jerez was going to be the next Torii Hunter.

[moonslav59]

Vazquez and Leon are the worst offensive catching duo by far.

 

Not the worst and certainly not worst "by far"...

 

BOS .646

Leon .659

Vaz .633

 

COL .632 (Team OPS worse than both our starters)

Wolters .664 OPS

Hanigan .669/Garneu .613

 

TOR .559 (Clearly worse than Vaz/Leon's .646)

Martin .713

Maile .356

 

AZ .660

Hermann .609

Mathis .555

 

WAS .636

Wieters .683

Lobaton .492

 

CLE .620

Gomes .672

Perez .527

 

OAK.648

Vogt .644

Phegley .602

 

CWS .638

Naevaez .643

K Smith .621

 

Rays .648

Norris .637

Sucre .648

[Spudboy]

Eric Van, a sabermetric guy who used to work for the Red Sox (posts on soxprospects.com) is against trading for a catcher. This is what he says:

 

Oh it's always reassuring to hear an expert using metrics few have ever heard of verify what my eyes tell me.

 

I can sleep now.

[BstHcpr]

Oh it's always reassuring to hear an expert using metrics few have ever heard of verify what my eyes tell me.

 

I can sleep now.

 

Eric Van has crunched the numbers, and it said that you have been awake long enough to go to sleep.

[BstHcpr]

Not the worst and certainly not worst "by far"...

 

BOS .646

Leon .659

Vaz .633

 

COL .632 (Team OPS worse than both our starters)

Wolters .664 OPS

Hanigan .669/Garneu .613

 

TOR .559 (Clearly worse than Vaz/Leon's .646)

Martin .713

Maile .356

 

AZ .660

Hermann .609

Mathis .555

 

WAS .636

Wieters .683

Lobaton .492

 

CLE .620

Gomes .672

Perez .527

 

OAK.648

Vogt .644

Phegley .602

 

CWS .638

Naevaez .643

K Smith .621

 

Rays .648

Norris .637

Sucre .648

 

Vazquez OPS is .622. Ask Eric Van what it is over the last 60 days.

[Bellhorn04]

Vazquez OPS is .622. Ask Eric Van what it is over the last 60 days.

 

Vaz's OPS since June 1 is .431. OBP .219, SLG .212.

[oldtimer]

Vaz's OPS since June 1 is .431. OBP .219, SLG .212.

 

In July he is batting .163 and in the last 7 dys .063. That mirrors the team Malaise.

[oldtimer]

In July he is batting .163 and in the last 7 dys .063. That mirrors the team Malaise.

 

Bogaerts has been hurting so has an excuse but his JUly avg is .164 with a 230 ops

[Nick]

Bogaerts has been hurting so has an excuse but his JUly avg is .164 with a 230 ops

 

Yeah, his feelings been hurt lately.

[Nick]

OPS rankings by positions

 

JBJr 1st

Dustin 6th

Hanley 6th

Betts 7th

Xander 7th (still think he's worth $20-$25M?)

Beni 7th

Moreland 11th

Catchers 12th (near the bottom, many teams use 2)

3B Dead last probably

 

AND YOU THINK DEVERS IS GOING TO HURT US? (PS...we don't have $95M invested him....he can always be sent down)

[SoxnCycles]

OPS rankings by positions

 

JBJr 1st

Dustin 6th

Hanley 6th

Betts 7th

Xander 7th (still think he's worth $20-$25M?)

Beni 7th

Moreland 11th

Catchers 12th (near the bottom, many teams use 2)

3B Dead last probably

 

AND YOU THINK DEVERS IS GOING TO HURT US? (PS...we don't have $95M invested him....he can always be sent down)

 

Devers can have the #1 spot in OPS but it's not going to do much if the rest of the team still can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag.

My only concern with Devers is that fan expectations may be running a bit high.

Can't wait to see hin play, in any case.

[OH FOY]

2nd Wild Card is really close now. It will affect Trade Market as far as AL teams Trading. Texas is only 3.5 behind, doubt they will want to Trade Beltre now. KC is 2nd Wild Card now, doubt they deal anyone.

[Nick]

Devers can have the #1 spot in OPS but it's not going to do much if the rest of the team still can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag.

My only concern with Devers is that fan expectations may be running a bit high.

Can't wait to see hin play, in any case.

 

My point is that Devers is not a Savior for this franchise this year. It's more imperative that Betts, Xander, Moreland, Hanley and Beni play at a higher level, offensively.

 

1 He is going to bat 7th, 8th or 9th

2 My expectation is not high. Just higher than that of Holt, Marrero and Lin's. I dislike Holt as a baseball player. Mediocre defender at best at every position. BFF with John Farrell is all see. I dislike him even more because Lin was sent down.

3 Don't fall in love with young talent on this team. They are all replaceable. Especially before I hand out $20M+ multiple year contracts.

4 Must have strong starting rotation.

5 Bullpen for most part should be built from within. Tons of failed starting arms in the organization available for bullpen duty.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Nick

[cp176]

My point is that Devers is not a Savior for this franchise this year. It's more imperative that Betts, Xander, Moreland, Hanley and Beni play at a higher level, offensively.

 

1 He is going to bat 7th, 8th or 9th

2 My expectation is not high. Just higher than that of Holt, Marrero and Lin's. I dislike Holt as a baseball player. Mediocre defender at best at every position. BFF with John Farrell is all see. I dislike him even more because Lin was sent down.

3 Don't fall in love with young talent on this team. They are all replaceable. Especially before I hand out $20M+ multiple year contracts.

4 Must have strong starting rotation.

5 Bullpen for most part should be built from within. Tons of failed starting arms in the organization available for bullpen duty.

 

#3 works for me - in general, I don't think that collectively they are as good as most of us think they are.

[Nick]

We need to take a step back and look at this trade deadline based on last off season.

 

1. We did have a chance to add a big bat. Bat with some power. But we passed. The decision was made early on that we would reset the luxury tax limit in 2017. We would be under the cap by $10-$15M and use it for addition at the trade deadline.

2. I'm not sure how hard we went after Todd Frazier. Obviously the Yankees put out a better offer. Maybe DD was never in on that possibility.

3. This was going to be a transition year at both 1B and 3B. Unfortunately Moreland is playing like a $5M rental.

4. Although we expected some regression but much of our core players have under performed, starting with Betts. I never see 'weakness' from JBJ even when he's struggling but Xander is another story. He looks timid when things aren't going his way. I thought Beni would have a break out season. He's just an average left fielder with no power. His defensive skills are overrated.

5. I did not expect much offensively from our catching duo but I'd thought they hit little better than they have been.

6. Hanley in an enigma. I'm counting the days for his contract to expire. Two more years. Not even Ortiz got $20M just to DH.

7. I'm not sure all the panic over impending 'cliff'. Most of these players are replaceable.

8. Chris Sale looks unbeatable. See where we are in two years.

 

We have $200M available annually to put out a quality team. There are 25 clubs that would like to swap places with us.

[oldtimer]

OPS rankings by positions

 

JBJr 1st

Dustin 6th

Hanley 6th

Betts 7th

Xander 7th (still think he's worth $20-$25M?)

Beni 7th

Moreland 11th

Catchers 12th (near the bottom, many teams use 2)

3B Dead last probably

 

AND YOU THINK DEVERS IS GOING TO HURT US? (PS...we don't have $95M invested him....he can always be sent down)

 

i am not as likely to us year long statistics to evaluate our strength of hitting in the later parts of the season, but they do at least indicate value generally.

 

JBJ's hitting and defense make him worth a lot

Dustin has been and is currently a valuable hitter and defensive player. Maybe our best overall.

Hanley is providing some punch but one may argue he is overpaid as a DH

[oldtimer]

i am not as likely to us year long statistics to evaluate our strength of hitting in the later parts of the season, but they do at least indicate value generally.

 

JBJ's hitting and defense make him worth a lot

Dustin has been and is currently a valuable hitter and defensive player. Maybe our best overall.

Hanley is providing some punch but one may argue he is overpaid as a DH

 

Sorry my computer jumped before I fully replied:

 

Betts is a valuable player but has some serious holes in his pitch selection and plate coverage. He is worth keeping and should be coached through some apparent weaknesses.

Xander typically has a hot ist half and tails off afterwards. His defense is average. The question is whether we could find better for the money he will command.

Beni is young. He a nice swing and a good plate approach but has not made progress at this point. His defense is slightly above average. He is a keeper and worth watching and waiting on

Moreland seems to have drifted into a less than average hitter. Maybe the club attitude has infected him. We shouldn't stay with an older player who doesn't show consistency. Travis is worth a look

Both Leon and vaz are defensive catchers. I would be looking for replacing one of these going forward.

Holt, Marerro are not answers, just look at the numbers. Devers may be or may need to be moved in position to 1st.

 

I still think Lin should have been our utility player. He at least seems to exude energy.

[cp176]

We need to take a step back and look at this trade deadline based on last off season.

 

1. We did have a chance to add a big bat. Bat with some power. But we passed. The decision was made early on that we would reset the luxury tax limit in 2017. We would be under the cap by $10-$15M and use it for addition at the trade deadline.

2. I'm not sure how hard we went after Todd Frazier. Obviously the Yankees put out a better offer. Maybe DD was never in on that possibility.

3. This was going to be a transition year at both 1B and 3B. Unfortunately Moreland is playing like a $5M rental.

4. Although we expected some regression but much of our core players have under performed, starting with Betts. I never see 'weakness' from JBJ even when he's struggling but Xander is another story. He looks timid when things aren't going his way. I thought Beni would have a break out season. He's just an average left fielder with no power. His defensive skills are overrated.

5. I did not expect much offensively from our catching duo but I'd thought they hit little better than they have been.

6. Hanley in an enigma. I'm counting the days for his contract to expire. Two more years. Not even Ortiz got $20M just to DH.

7. I'm not sure all the panic over impending 'cliff'. Most of these players are replaceable.

8. Chris Sale looks unbeatable. See where we are in two years.

 

We have $200M available annually to put out a quality team. There are 25 clubs that would like to swap places with us.

 

I don't think that things are really all that bleak but I will say that I'm not sure I ever understood where the euphoria was coming from with this team's future hitting prospects. Betts - I still like but maybe he won't be quite as good going forward as last year made us think he would. Third base is what it is and maybe it is about to start to be straightened out. Moreland was never meant to replace Papi. Ramirez's career has been an up and down one. I like Benitendi but once again he is a lot smaller than the stats say he is. He will have a good career just not Fred Lynn like. JBJ is playing like he always has. I'm not sure where the power projection for Bogaerts ever come from. A lot of people hoping I guess. We have known for years really that we have two pretty good catchers who really aren't likely to hit much and Pedroia just keeps on going. If we move along this year it will be primarily due to our pitching which is not a bad thing at all. We still are on top in the east. I still think that DD has a plan. You can't solve every problem in a heartbeat.

[OH FOY]

Yanks could care less about Frazier, they wanted the Relievers.