Lin

[Jasonbay44]

I really don't think anyone proposed moving XB to 3B for Lin. Under discussion is whether we look for a SS instead of a 3B going forward.

 

Either way, I don't see the rush. Devers is close to MLB ready, he plays 3B, why risk something stupid, piss off a young star player, when its not that urgent? This team is currently winning with literally 0 production from 3B. Obviously some production would be nice, but I'm completely against moving XB off SS.

[moonslav59]

Either way, I don't see the rush. Devers is close to MLB ready, he plays 3B, why risk something stupid, piss off a young star player, when its not that urgent? This team is currently winning with literally 0 production from 3B. Obviously some production would be nice, but I'm completely against moving XB off SS.

 

We've had less than zero production at 3B.

[a700hitter]

Either way, I don't see the rush. Devers is close to MLB ready, he plays 3B, why risk something stupid, piss off a young star player, when its not that urgent? This team is currently winning with literally 0 production from 3B. Obviously some production would be nice, but I'm completely against moving XB off SS.

We are losing a series at home this weekend to a terrible team.

[Jasonbay44]

We are losing a series at home this weekend to a terrible team.

 

And would a 3B really change that? The guys who are supposed to be hitting aren't hitting.

[moonslav59]

And would a 3B really change that?

 

It might, if our 3Bman would ever get a hit when it counts.

 

Before today's o for 3 from the 3B slot we had these 3B numbers:

 

.199 7 29

 

.562 OPS

 

Even someone hitting at .675 might have got us another win or two.

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by moonslav59

[Jasonbay44]

It might, if our 3Bman would ever get a hit when it counts.

 

Before today's o for 3 from the 3B slot we had these 3B numbers:

 

.199 7 29

 

.562 OPS

 

Even someone hitting at .675 might have got us another win or two.

 

I was talking about strictly this series. Obviously the 3B over the course of the season have hurt us. But regardless. I'm still against moving XB off SS, especially with the 3B of the future waiting in the minors.

[oldtimer]

It might, if our 3Bman would ever get a hit when it counts.

 

Before today's o for 3 from the 3B slot we had these 3B numbers:

 

.199 7 29

 

.562 OPS

 

Even someone hitting at .675 might have got us another win or two.

 

 

I agree, a key hit from the third baseman once in the game might have altered the outcome. Marrero is not producing offensively so why not go with Lin or perhaps bring up Devers. What can we lose?

[Nick]

I agree, a key hit from the third baseman once in the game might have altered the outcome. Marrero is not producing offensively so why not go with Lin or perhaps bring up Devers. What can we lose?

 

Devers may surprise the management.

 

It baffles me that they will look under every rock for a starting pitcher but they settle for a guy with the WORST minor league OPS at 3B.

 

Unless DD intends to trade Devers and does not want him 'exposed' to other teams at the major league level there's NO downside in trying him at 3B.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Nick

[OH FOY]

Good point by Lou Merloni, you got Pablo getting off DL going down to Pawtucket for a Rehab, and you got Peralta there to get up to speed, both at 3rd base, and that's holding up Devers to Pawtucket. While you got Marrero and Lin up at the Majors. What's going on with the Sox Management?

Too many old Farts in Pawtucket. Almost a 30 year old Triple AAA team, never heard of that.

Edited June 25, 2017 by OH FOY!

[cp176]

Sadly, it is something the Red Sox have done before.

[Kimmi]

I believe cannabis is involved.

 

Kimmi wake and bake is simply sparking up some marijuana early in the day.

 

Not everyone who does such is a stoner, though.

 

Sox was implying failed thought was the result of wake and bake.

 

Well, that explains why I didn't know what it meant. LOL

 

I got the wake part, but I was racking my brain trying to think of what someone would be baking so early in the morning that would result in failed thought.

[Kimmi]

Marrero is not going to be our 3Bman the rest of the year. Not even close.

 

I realize that. My point was that Xander at 3B would not be a defensive improvement over Marrero at 3B.

[Kimmi]

I certainly agree with that! However, moving XBo to 3B makes 3B A LOT stronger on both sides of the ball and could make the defense better at SS. XBo's bat remains in the lineup and we're stronger defensively at both 3B & SS, while giving up prowess only at the offensive side of SS. That's a net gain.

 

How do you figure Xander to be better defensively at 3B than Marrero is?

 

Moving Xander to 3B and Lin to SS makes 3B stronger offensively but weaker defensively and SS stronger defensively but weaker offensively. Throw in the real possibility that Xander will not be happy moving to 3B and that his production will suffer because of it, and I think the move will be a 0 net gain at best.

[Kimmi]

And would a 3B really change that? The guys who are supposed to be hitting aren't hitting.

 

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!

 

We have a winner!

[mvp 78]

Leave Xander at SS FFS.

[Hugh2]

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!

 

We have a winner!

 

I agree with the overall point here. The guys who are supposed to hit have not hit. But a WS caliber deep lineup has guys up and down who can pick up the slack when others slump.

 

You don't have to have a silver slugger at every position, but having a guy below the Mendoza line really sticks out. This team has appeared to have put all its eggs in the basket over the next three years, you'd think it would be imperative to find a viable solution at 3rd.

 

I'm ok with the defensive stop gap who can play one side of the ball well. But we can't go into the playoffs with Marrero at 3B

[S5Dewey]

How do you figure Xander to be better defensively at 3B than Marrero is?

 

Because to use the undisputable standard for all ratings on both offense and defense otherwise known as WAR, Marerro has a dWAR of -0.2 and Bogaerts has a dWAR of +2.1

 

Whether XBo would be "happy" at 3B doesn't matter much to me because I see it as a prime case of the tail wagging the dog. Do we really have to cater to a player's ego in order to make them "happy"?

[mvp 78]

Whether XBo would be "happy" at 3B doesn't matter much to me because I see it as a prime case of the tail wagging the dog. Do we really have to cater to a player's ego in order to make them "happy"?

Yes, players are humans, not rows on a spreadsheet.

[S5Dewey]

Yes, players are humans, not rows on a spreadsheet.

 

This is still the tail wagging the dog, and akin to blackmail.

[S5Dewey]

..and I gave up on the "wake and bake" many years ago, although sometimes I wonder why!

[Kimmi]

I agree with the overall point here. The guys who are supposed to hit have not hit. But a WS caliber deep lineup has guys up and down who can pick up the slack when others slump.

 

You don't have to have a silver slugger at every position, but having a guy below the Mendoza line really sticks out. This team has appeared to have put all its eggs in the basket over the next three years, you'd think it would be imperative to find a viable solution at 3rd.

 

I'm ok with the defensive stop gap who can play one side of the ball well. But we can't go into the playoffs with Marrero at 3B

 

I don't disagree with any of this. My point is that signing a big bat will not help our offense much if the guys who are supposed to hit do not start hitting. I have no doubt that 3B will be upgraded offensively by the deadline.

[Kimmi]

Because to use the undisputable standard for all ratings on both offense and defense otherwise known as WAR, Marerro has a dWAR of -0.2 and Bogaerts has a dWAR of +2.1

 

Whether XBo would be "happy" at 3B doesn't matter much to me because I see it as a prime case of the tail wagging the dog. Do we really have to cater to a player's ego in order to make them "happy"?

 

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers?

 

According to Fangraphs, when Bogaerts played 3B in 2014, his DRS was -7 and his UZR/150 was -29.4. His dWAR that year was -4.8, though that included his play at shortstop as well.

 

Marrero's DRS this year is +1, his UZR/150 is +22.4, and his dWAR is 4.0.

 

As far as catering to Bogaerts' happiness, my personal opinion is that a player should do whatever is best for the team, and if that means moving to a different position, then the player should do so willingly. However, we've tried moving Bogaerts to 3B before and it did not go well. In this case, I don't think moving him to 3B would be best for the team.

[Kimmi]

..and I gave up on the "wake and bake" many years ago, although sometimes I wonder why!

 

I may be the only person in the history of the planet who has not smoked pot. I can't imagine getting baked upon waking. LOL

[Dojji]

Here's an idea that will probably get dumped on roundly, but WTH! LOL

 

Isn't this just what this team needs now to solidify the infield? To me Bogarts looks more like a 3B, with solid defense and a good OPS. I'm not lobbying for Lin to be promoted, but wouldn't a Lin-like player improve this team if XBo were moved to 3B? Especially if it could be done cheaply?

 

it's a possibility. Bit too conventional in my mind.

 

If Lin is the best option, play him. As for where he defends from, I'm indifferent. Does it really matter if we have Glovey McNoodlebat at shortstop or third base? It doesn't affect where he is in the lineup, and frankly I trust the more experienced Bogaerts at short over a newcomer.

 

Moving a guy off his position just because we're such slaves to convention that Our Third Baseman Must Be A Power Hitter doesn't seem particularly well thought out to me, or particularly creative.

 

Besides, I really think this franchise is going to trade for a 3B at the deadline. Moving Bogaerts only to move him back later in the year is a mixed message I don't want to send to a young guy who's just about decent at his position right now. Keep him in his comfort zone, don't make him start thinking about his plays. I don't want him to start missing plays at SS because he's learning 3B at the same time, if you hear what I'm saying.

[Dojji]

This is still the tail wagging the dog, and akin to blackmail.

 

Not any more than rewarding your top workers in the office with the assignments they want. It's not blackmail, it's motivation. Bogaerts knows that the job is his to lose as long as he doesn't suck as a SS, so he's motivated to be the best SS he can. And the best shortstop Xander Bogaerts can be is a pretty damn good shortstop, at least borderline elite if not outright elite when you combine offense and defense

 

Bogaerts is an asset right now, not a problem. There is no need to make any moves that risk him becoming a problem. He's adequate defensively and killing it with the bat and his talent and production levels are super tough to replace at his position. He's the quintessential happy, productive worker. You can keep it that way by letting him keep a job he's frankly pretty productive at and committed to being the best he can be at, or you can make moves for their own sake just to have done something and risk all that exploding in your face.

 

Creating problems and upsetting the apple cart just for the sake of "marking your territory" and making moves for their own sake simply to conform to rigid convention (but Third Base Is A Power Hitter Job! We need a power hitter! I know, we'll steal that one from a position he stands out far more in, and turn an elite shortstop into a merely above average 3B just to satisfy my sense of how the universe should be!) is a stupid way to manage a big company.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Dojji

[Dojji]

I may be the only person in the history of the planet who has not smoked pot.

 

You are not. I am a practicing Mormon and have never touched the stuff.

[notin]

Because to use the undisputable standard for all ratings on both offense and defense otherwise known as WAR, Marerro has a dWAR of -0.2 and Bogaerts has a dWAR of +2.1

 

Whether XBo would be "happy" at 3B doesn't matter much to me because I see it as a prime case of the tail wagging the dog. Do we really have to cater to a player's ego in order to make them "happy"?

 

 

It's not about Bogaerts being happy. Don't confusr happy with comfortable. I never heard anyone say Hanley was not happy in left field.

[moonslav59]

...[bogey is] motivated to be the best SS he can...

 

I am not supporting the idea of moving Bogey to 3B this year, but I haven't seen his "motivation" helping improve his defense at SS over the last 2-3 years.

 

If we had a great fielding SS who could hit better than any current 3B we have, I'd consider the move. We don't right now.

 

Bogey is our SS for a while.

 

Our best hope is for Devers to be promoted and succeed, we trade for a significant upgrade at 3B without giving up more top prospects or going over the luxury tax this season.

[cp176]

Lin, Rutledge, and Marrero are not third baseman and never will be. Sandoval just isn't anymore. Getting 0 from them of late puts pressure on DD that none of us want to see. We all know what that means. He is trying not to trade for one, but I would not be surprised if it happens just out of necessity.

As for players who are "supposed" to be hitting - I don't buy it but I don't like to assume things. I expect a little more from Betts I guess but Hanley is Hanley folks. He was fine with Ortiz in the lineup and dugout but without him there, people need to temper their expectations for him. As this team was constructed, i think that we are getting about what we can expect. We all knew that it was going to boil down to the pitching staff remaining healthy which it hasn't. In hindsight, it would look like a mistake was made in not trying to replace Ortiz's bat. Moreland has been better than I thought he would be but outside of Betts the rest of this order doesn't surprise me at all. Counting on Sandoval coming back strong really looks like the big mistake here.

[oldtimer]

I may be the only person in the history of the planet who has not smoked pot. I can't imagine getting baked upon waking. LOL

 

You found a second in me. In my case, pot was not around when I grew up.