Farrell

[Fisk]

Rutledge has only started 20 games at third base in his entire MLB career, and he has 7 errors, a fielding % of .868. He doesn't play much there, and when he does he's really bad.

 

Again short sample size. I will agree to disagree with you on the strategy.

[oldtimer]

The Nats are managed by one of the alltime great managers.

 

As are the Red Sox.

[Maxbialystock]

A short update--revisiting the thread topic--based on two recent events. The first of course is that insane thread arguing that Ortiz should be the manager. I'm happy to say the idea is not getting much support.

 

The second event is the now concluded 2 game sweep of the Cardinals--NL Central leaders--in St Louis. To me that series suggests this team just might be better than I thought because I thought both wins were gritty. Last night's 13 inning, 4 1/2 hour monster required Farrell to use 12 of his 13 position players and 9 of his 12 pitchers. All to good effect: after giving up 4 early runs, Porcello pitched 4 scoreless innings and a total of 6 before Farrell brought in 8 relievers who held the Cardinals scoreless for 7 innings. So, yes, I think Farrell did a good job.

 

But my real point is that the players overall were great in this series. They won two close games on the road against a good team with very good pitching. In the second game, they came from behind (4-0) to finally tie the game in the 8th on that magnificent triple by Bogaerts followed by a gritty sac fly by Benintendi, who is in a terrible slump (0 for 26) but rose to the occasion. Moreland made a really dumb play on a bunt to enable the early Cardinals rally, but hit that double in 13th and scored the winning run on Young's pinch hit single. Zowie.

 

Last year the Sox finished the season with 6 of the top 32 hitters--defined solely by their OPS's--in the American League: Ortiz, Betts, HanRam, Pedroia, Bogaerts, and JBJ. Right now we have 2 of the top 32, Betts and Bogaerts. Yes, we lost Ortiz, but the other 5 are back, and for the first month this year Benintendi had a high OPS. I think most of us believe Benintendi's slump will not last.

 

My point is the same one Kimmi and others have made--this team should be able to hit and probably will hit this year. When they do, this can be a good team despite my periodic rants about lousy defense (Marrero has fixed the 3B problem, and everyone else is decent and Betts is terrific), lousy baserunning, etc. Assuming Price comes back and in decent form, that's four pretty darn good starters: Sale, Porcello, Price, and ERod. The bullpen, with occasional lapses, has been pretty good too. I personally dislike Pomeranz, but I have seen far worse 5th starters.

 

So my other point is that just maybe Farrell has been managing well under trying circumstances and that it makes sense for DD to keep him around.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Maxbialystock

[oldtimer]

A short update--revisiting the thread topic--based on two recent events. The first of course is that insane thread arguing that Ortiz should be the manager. I'm happy to say the idea is not getting much support.

 

The second event is the now concluded 2 game sweep of the Cardinals--NL Central leaders--in St Louis. To me that series suggests this team just might be better than I thought because I thought both wins were gritty. Last night's 13 inning, 4 1/2 hour monster required Farrell to use 12 of his 13 position players and 9 of his 12 pitchers. All to good effect: after giving up 4 early runs, Porcello pitched 4 scoreless innings and a total of 6 before Farrell brought in 8 relievers who held the Cardinals scoreless for 7 innings. So, yes, I think Farrell did a good job.

 

But my real point is that the players overall were great in this series. They won two close games on the road against a good team with very good pitching. In the second game, they came from behind (4-0) to finally tie the game in the 8th on that magnificent triple by Bogaerts followed by a gritty sac fly by Benintendi, who is in a terrible slump (0 for 26) but rose to the occasion. Moreland made a really dumb play on a bunt to enable the early Cardinals rally, but hit that double in 13th and scored the winning run on Young's pinch hit single. Zowie.

 

Last year the Sox finished the season with 6 of the top 32 hitters--defined solely by their OPS's--in the American League: Ortiz, Betts, HanRam, Pedroia, Bogaerts, and JBJ. Right now we have 2 of the top 32, Betts and Bogaerts. Yes, we lost Ortiz, but the other 5 are back, and for the first month this year Benintendi had a high OPS. I think most of us believe Benintendi's slump will not last.

 

My point is the same one Kimmi and others have made--this team should be able to hit and probably will hit this year. When they do, this can be a good team despite my periodic rants about lousy defense (Marrero has fixed the 3B problem, and everyone else is decent and Betts is terrific), lousy baserunning, etc. Assuming Price comes back and in decent form, that's four pretty darn good starters: Sale, Porcello, Price, and ERod. The bullpen, with occasional lapses, has been pretty good too. I personally dislike Pomeranz, but I have seen far worse 5th starters.

 

So my other point is that just maybe Farrell has been managing well under trying circumstances and that it makes sense for DD to keep him around.

 

Funny how it was the Cardinals who self destructed in the first game not the Sox. I find Farrell to be impassive and some of his moves seem off the wall, but he is our manager for this year. I doubt it will go into next year if the team doesn't perform well this year. As far as Ortiz being manager, he would be a great person to motivate some of our players but is definitely not a man who has trained to be a baseball manager at any level. I find it hard to bellieve anyone would seriously suggest that move.

[moonslav59]

Rutledge has only started 20 games at third base in his entire MLB career, and he has 7 errors, a fielding % of .868. He doesn't play much there, and when he does he's really bad.

 

The sad thing is, he's probably still a better fielder at 3B than Pablo and Marco.

 

His bat vs LHPs is likely projected to be better as well.

 

Career UZR/150:

-24.2 3B (232 innings)

-20.8 SS (1115 innings)

-7.7 2B (274 innings)

+24.8 1B (5 innings)

 

Pablo at 3B:

2017: -11.9 (139 inn)

2015: -21.9 (1035 inn)

 

Marco:

Career at 3B -26.4 (131 inn)

 

Some very small sample sizes, especially for using UZR/150.

[mvp 78]

So my other point is that just maybe Farrell has been managing well under trying circumstances and that it makes sense for DD to keep him around.

 

Farrell is an ok manager. The right move would have been to dump him last year and upgrade to Lovullo. Right now, there isn't a better option in house or sitting at home.

[Spudboy]

Farrell is an ok manager. The right move would have been to dump him last year and upgrade to Lovullo. Right now, there isn't a better option in house or sitting at home.

 

I still say Eric Wedge would be a great fit. Especially with all the young players on the 40 man.

[Kimmi]

A short update--revisiting the thread topic--based on two recent events. The first of course is that insane thread arguing that Ortiz should be the manager. I'm happy to say the idea is not getting much support.

 

The second event is the now concluded 2 game sweep of the Cardinals--NL Central leaders--in St Louis. To me that series suggests this team just might be better than I thought because I thought both wins were gritty. Last night's 13 inning, 4 1/2 hour monster required Farrell to use 12 of his 13 position players and 9 of his 12 pitchers. All to good effect: after giving up 4 early runs, Porcello pitched 4 scoreless innings and a total of 6 before Farrell brought in 8 relievers who held the Cardinals scoreless for 7 innings. So, yes, I think Farrell did a good job.

 

But my real point is that the players overall were great in this series. They won two close games on the road against a good team with very good pitching. In the second game, they came from behind (4-0) to finally tie the game in the 8th on that magnificent triple by Bogaerts followed by a gritty sac fly by Benintendi, who is in a terrible slump (0 for 26) but rose to the occasion. Moreland made a really dumb play on a bunt to enable the early Cardinals rally, but hit that double in 13th and scored the winning run on Young's pinch hit single. Zowie.

 

Last year the Sox finished the season with 6 of the top 32 hitters--defined solely by their OPS's--in the American League: Ortiz, Betts, HanRam, Pedroia, Bogaerts, and JBJ. Right now we have 2 of the top 32, Betts and Bogaerts. Yes, we lost Ortiz, but the other 5 are back, and for the first month this year Benintendi had a high OPS. I think most of us believe Benintendi's slump will not last.

 

My point is the same one Kimmi and others have made--this team should be able to hit and probably will hit this year. When they do, this can be a good team despite my periodic rants about lousy defense (Marrero has fixed the 3B problem, and everyone else is decent and Betts is terrific), lousy baserunning, etc. Assuming Price comes back and in decent form, that's four pretty darn good starters: Sale, Porcello, Price, and ERod. The bullpen, with occasional lapses, has been pretty good too. I personally dislike Pomeranz, but I have seen far worse 5th starters.

 

So my other point is that just maybe Farrell has been managing well under trying circumstances and that it makes sense for DD to keep him around.

 

Short update? Just kidding Max.

 

Farrell did a very good job in last night's game. Thankfully, the game did not go any longer since we had no pitchers left.

 

I've questioned Farrell's moves and I've questioned the overall 'meh' performance of the team, but I don't think Farrell is as bad a manager as most people here think he is.

 

As far as the offense is concerned, I expect them to end up being pretty doggone good.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm fine with that and with what mvp78 said. Farrell has been OK. Maybe Lovullo would have been better.

[cp176]

Louvollo is a younger version of Farrell. Good bad or whatever

[oldtimer]

I'm fine with that and with what mvp78 said. Farrell has been OK. Maybe Lovullo would have been better.

 

Maybe we need more enthusiasm in management. When we had the cowboy up attitude on the team we seemed to overcome obstacles. On today's team we don't have that kind of flamboyance and grit.

[a700hitter]

Maybe we need more enthusiasm in management. When we had the cowboy up attitude on the team we seemed to overcome obstacles. On today's team we don't have that kind of flamboyance and grit.

It is hard for a bunch of tiny little Baby B's to swagger with attitude. There are few Pedroia's, and even he needed Manny's and Papi's to drive him in.

[oldtimer]

It is hard for a bunch of tiny little Baby B's to swagger with attitude. There are few Pedroia's, and even he needed Manny's and Papi's to drive him in.

 

 

I assume, and maybe not fairly, that JF had lots of input into the formulation of this years team. If so, then if it is hard for him, then it is a least partially his own doing.

[a700hitter]

After the game, Farrell's explanation for taking out Pomeranz was lame, very lame. He tried to infer that he was looking out for his health, but we all saw that Pomeranz wanted to go back out there and Farrell was not being fatherly about taking him out of the game. He was angry and he was punishing Pom. His explanation was very disingenuous,and i don't think it will sit well with the clubhouse.

[Nick]

I don't think 'the clubhouse' thinks much of Pomeranz.

[a700hitter]

I don't think 'the clubhouse' thinks much of Pomeranz.

Have you read or heard that?

[cp176]

I don't think 'the clubhouse' thinks much of Pomeranz.

 

Really? Where is this one coming from? Pomeranz finally shows a little heart and he gets beat up over it. Oh wait, my mistake - he had thrown the ball 97 times which means that he would go over 100 if he went back out to the mound. Screw the politically correct way of baseball. When the arguments start, the end begins. i can't believe that any player in that dugout is upset because Pomeranz wanted to stay in the game. if they are, well maybe that says a great deal about them -nothing good though.

[Bellhorn04]

It is hard for a bunch of tiny little Baby B's to swagger with attitude.

 

But we have the Outfield Dance!

[a700hitter]

But we have the Outfield Dance!

And they would kill it on Dancing with the Stars.

[Maxbialystock]

To me the case for and against Farrell begins and ends with the won-lost record, which is now .500. The Rays just passed us for 3d place in the AL East even though we are just 4.5 games out of 1st.

 

However, as someone else pointed out, what is the alternative to Farrell as this point?

[Bellhorn04]

To me the case for and against Farrell begins and ends with the won-lost record, which is now .500. The Rays just passed us for 3d place in the AL East even though we are just 4.5 games out of 1st.

 

However, as someone else pointed out, what is the alternative to Farrell as this point?

 

Yes, we seem to be screwed for this year at least.

[georom4]

You wanted Francona 2.0. you got him. Same attitude, same tepid philosophy of managing. But like Francona he's won a title so we're stuck with him for a while. He doesn't manage games, he manages players. There's a difference

[Bellhorn04]

You wanted Francona 2.0. you got him. Same attitude, same tepid philosophy of managing. But like Francona he's won a title so we're stuck with him for a while. He doesn't manage games, he manages players. There's a difference

 

Sorry geo, but your old whipping boy Francona has been universally praised for his managing in Cleveland.

[dgalehouse]

It seems to me that the players loved ( but eventually took advantage of ) Tito. They hated Bobby V. They welcomed and responded to Farrell in that emotion-driven season of 2013. That is no longer the case. A change seems needed at this point. Unless this team turns it around very soon , a change will be made. This club has too much talent to be floundering like this.

[jacksonianmarch]

Everyone panned Franconia because he basically sat back and let his team play. That's what you do when your 3-4 is Manny and Papi. When your rotation consists of guys like Pedro, Schilling, Lester, Lackey. Tito didn't have to get creative because he knew the talent on his team would bear out over 162. In Cleveland, that hadn't been the case. He'd been running, altering the course of bullpens forever using Miller in leverage time not in the 8th inning, shuffling lineups, etc.

[MADSTORK]

Call Leyland

[mvp 78]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/trying-times-for-john-farrell-as-boston-red-sox-manager-052317

 

Bye Felicia!

[Maxbialystock]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/trying-times-for-john-farrell-as-boston-red-sox-manager-052317

 

Bye Felicia!

 

Interesting article. I've thought all along that Barnes did not need to throw at Machado because Pedroia, the injured party, said emphatically he didn't think it was an illegal or dirty slide. Many on talksox disagree with that, but Pedroia was the party involved. Anyway, Barnes screwed it up royally. Pomeranz wanting to go back out to pitch the 5th is good news, but why make a scene in the dugout when you haven't thrown more than 103 pitches in 8 starts this year and have consistently struggled when you get near that mark?

 

Overall I think the article is balanced with good arguments on both sides--by the same writer.

[Slasher9]

anything less then 4-2 on this homestand and i predict DD will fire JF.

[Maxbialystock]

Everyone panned Franconia because he basically sat back and let his team play. That's what you do when your 3-4 is Manny and Papi. When your rotation consists of guys like Pedro, Schilling, Lester, Lackey. Tito didn't have to get creative because he knew the talent on his team would bear out over 162. In Cleveland, that hadn't been the case. He'd been running, altering the course of bullpens forever using Miller in leverage time not in the 8th inning, shuffling lineups, etc.

 

Are you under the impression that managers win and lose games and not players? I disagree. As someone else quoted from a former MLB manager, "the difference between a good manager and a bad one is a great bullpen."

 

You just complimented Francona's masterful handling of the Guardians bullpen, but I looked them up. They have basically used 7 relievers who have pitched in 21, 19, 18, 18, 16, 14, and 13 innings, respectively--Miller, FYI, has pitched in 18--and whose worst ERA is 3.57, 2d worst is 2.41, and other five ERA's are all under 2. Seems to me they come pretty close to being a great, healthy bullpen. You think Farrell couldn't use a bullpen like that?

 

Is it Farrell's fault the guys aren't hitting at anywhere near the level as last year when he was also the manager? Or 2013 for that matter?

 

Before this season we all thought the rotation would be great with Sale, Price, Porcello (Cy Young winner), ERod, Wright, and Pomeranz only if needed. Porcello is struggling except on gopher balls. ERod is good and Sale even better. But Price and Wright are on the DL. And Pomeranz right now is our #4 starter with a player to be named later as #5.

 

Ironically, I do hold Farrell accountable for wins and losses, but agree with the notion that maybe he stays because no one else worth using is available.