Sox hitting??

[sk7326]

Maybe there are multiple reasons for slowing his promotions. Maybe most scouts and player evaluators in the system are in agreement on not promoting him swiftly.

 

I trust they know what they are doing. It's not as easy as just looking at the numbers.

 

 

 

Of course (see MONCADA!!). But note they also said nothing about Benintendi prior to it happening. He has actually checked more boxes than Moncada in this stretch - dominating AA pitching, strong approach ... tremendous power and solid defense ...

[sk7326]

They've just said it's simply due to age. I think they are being careful about the promotion because they see how much of a valuable commodity he is. They aren't treating him with kid gloves, they are treating him with white cotton gloves as if he's an invaluable piece of art.

 

I think they are tying to keep any decision on their timetable - to not have it be a WEEI topic ... I'll just note that next weekend is the exact ideal window for the promotion to happen. If it happens - there will be no hints dropped before. I think they'll be more protective of a 19 year old than Benintendi in that manner.

[Kimmi]

I think they are trying to keep the Nation machine off of him - now, I think it is more likely he goes to Pawtucket to replace Peralta. But remember Benintendi's callup was a surprise - we saw how he had demolished High A and AA and wondered, but the FO left no hints at a pre-September callup coming.

 

As i have noted before - would I be surprised if Devers joined the team next weekend? No. The Red Sox could dream on Lin, Holt (when he returns) and whatever providing a warm body there ... but no other option inside (or maybe outside) the organization has the same sort of ceiling.

 

That could be. There is already quite a bit of hype surrounding him, which has to be overwhelming for a young kid. I would not be surprised to see him called up soon either.

 

My guess is that Dombrowski tries to make a reasonable trade for a 3B, and if that's not possible, he rides the Lin/Marrero/Holt train as long as we're winning and playing well. If our situation becomes a little more urgent, Devers will be called up.

[Kimmi]

Maybe there are multiple reasons for slowing his promotions. Maybe most scouts and player evaluators in the system are in agreement on not promoting him swiftly.

 

I trust they know what they are doing. It's not as easy as just looking at the numbers.

 

 

I will trust their judgment as well, although I think they messed up with Swihart and Moncada. Maybe they have learned not to act so rashly.

[notin]

I will trust their judgment as well, although I think they messed up with Swihart and Moncada. Maybe they have learned not to act so rashly.

 

I don't think they mishandled Moncada. Just because he struggled isn't the GM's fault. He did demolish AAA pitching prior to being called up.

 

Swihart was flat out stupidity.

[Kimmi]

I don't think they mishandled Moncada. Just because he struggled isn't the GM's fault. He did demolish AAA pitching prior to being called up.

 

Swihart was flat out stupidity.

 

JMO, of course, but I think they called him up too soon. Of course, I also think they called up Beni too soon, and he's doing just fine.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they ruined Moncada or hurt his development, but I do think they messed up in their judgment of calling him up before he was ready. I think there is more to being 'ready' that goes beyond baseball skills.

 

All that said, your point is fair.

[moonslav59]

I will trust their judgment as well, although I think they messed up with Swihart and Moncada. Maybe they have learned not to act so rashly.

 

Maybe they are adjusting their thinking after the Moncada-Swihart decisions.

 

Many of these types of decisions have been made out of an intense big club need- some have worked, others have not.

 

Here are a few recent moves I recall:

 

Middy: I don't think they rushed Middy, and I was one who was not taken in by his super hot start to his career. His minor league numbers were larger and revealed some big issues.

 

JBJ: He was yo-yo'd so much his failings could have been attributed to motion sickness. He put up some great numbers on the farm and in ST'ing. I was never one to think he was called up too early, though. I was also against playing him in LF, when he is such a great CF'er. (Note: I don't think playing LF contributed to his early struggles.)

 

Bogey: I was very upset they only gave him 10 games at 3B before thrusting him into the intense playoff run spotlight off position. To me, that was severe short-sightedness. This isn't revisionist talk either, as I was calling for him to get more reps at 3B on teh farm long before they finally gave him some. We had a great need at 3B, and everyone knew it. This one worked out well in 2013, but not so well the following year. Many (not me) feel keeping him at 3B in 2014 messed him up at the plate.

 

Betts: Although Mookie did get 46 games under his belt in the OF before being handed the CF job with the Sox, some felt it was a lot to ask of a rookie. He showed he can handle anything thrown his way. What an amazing athlete. His move from CF to RF was just as seemless.

 

Swihart: He did a great job after being rushed to the bigs after the injury to Vaz. Some feel we gave up on him too soon, but I think the pitching staff greatly preferred Vaz as their battery mate. That's something us fans might not be privy to. The move to LF was understandable, IMO. We had lost out on obtaining a LF'er at the deadline, Swihart was looking good at the plate, and the idea of moving Swihart to a new position has always been "on the table". The move was made quickly (again), and had Blake not gotten hurt, I'm not sure we'd be talking about it right now.

 

Moncada: I felt his bat had been ML ready for many weeks before his call-up. My concern was always about his glove. I never felt his position was going to be 2B, but they kept him there all along. Then, suddenly, they move him to 3B and call him up shortly thereafter.He only played 10 games at 3B in the minors before his call-up! For a guy who struggles with fielding, this was absurd, IMO, unless the plan all along was to just DH him after his call-up. He ended up with 35 horrible innings at 3B.

 

Beni: I treated the Beni call-up like I am the Devers one now. I thought he was ML ready, but said I "trusted Sox management" to know when is when. He's done very well since that decision, but many felt it was rushed, and a few felt it was a "panic move".

 

All in all, IMO some decisions are made more out of need than "readiness", but a balance usually called for. I don't see there being a pattern of mistakes being made.

 

 

[moonslav59]

I don't think they mishandled Moncada. Just because he struggled isn't the GM's fault. He did demolish AAA pitching prior to being called up...

 

By all accounts, Moncada's defense was highly suspect.

 

They gave him 10 games at 3B on the farm, before calling him up. He played 35 innings at 3B with the Sox.

 

I feel that part of the call-up was textbook "mishandling".

 

[sk7326]

By all accounts, Moncada's defense was highly suspect.

 

They gave him 10 games at 3B on the farm, before calling him up. He played 35 innings at 3B with the Sox.

 

I feel that part of the call-up was textbook "mishandling".

 

 

i don't think it was mishandling ... moncada had a good season - it was worth a look ... and moncada himself seemed to want it .... he was overwhelmed which long term was probably good for him. It showed he was a little further away than it looked - which is fine. It got them Sale - and the ChiSox can afford to be more patient with him.

 

The defense was a concern to a degree - but it was the bat, and his ability to handle good pitching. That is still very raw - but it was worth finding out if the dez bryant athlete could overcome that.

[sk7326]

That could be. There is already quite a bit of hype surrounding him, which has to be overwhelming for a young kid. I would not be surprised to see him called up soon either.

 

My guess is that Dombrowski tries to make a reasonable trade for a 3B, and if that's not possible, he rides the Lin/Marrero/Holt train as long as we're winning and playing well. If our situation becomes a little more urgent, Devers will be called up.

 

Maybe - although if you bring up the kid - it's because it isn't urgent.

[Larry Cook]

Our offense hit a new level of frustration tonight!

[moonslav59]

i don't think it was mishandling ... moncada had a good season - it was worth a look ... and moncada himself seemed to want it .... he was overwhelmed which long term was probably good for him. It showed he was a little further away than it looked - which is fine. It got them Sale - and the ChiSox can afford to be more patient with him.

 

The defense was a concern to a degree - but it was the bat, and his ability to handle good pitching. That is still very raw - but it was worth finding out if the dez bryant athlete could overcome that.

 

So, giving him just 10 games at 3B, after showing he has major problems on defense was okay with you?

 

It's not like he was doing great at 2B or had any future there.

 

If the plan was to call him up and play him at 3B (not DH or 2B), then he should have gotten a much longer look at 3B before throwing him in there at the big league level.

[oldtimer]

Our offense hit a new level of frustration tonight!

 

Agreed. I had to turn the game off after 11 as just too frustrating to watch. Our top of the order guys with the exception of Pedroia just aren't hitting. The plate approach seems to be an unvarying willingness to take a couple of strikes and then swing at balls off the plate. Mookie, Bogey, Moreland and Hanley just weren't much of a threat although Moreland did drive in the only run we could manage in 16 innings. I was surprised that we threw away a chance to go from 1st to 3rd on a hit to right field. We would have won the game had that one play been executed by Beni. Kimbrel definitely made a mistake giving up the gopher ball but he is human and is entitled to an error.

 

The Yankee bullpen isn't that good. We have too find a way to score to support a great starting pitching and to a large extent relief pitching outing. I think it is time to consider some lineup changes to help

 

Pedey, Beni, JBJ and Lin have at least looked like threats while the others have not. We definitely need help.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Our offense hit a new level of frustration tonight!

 

The Red Sox should look for two offensive upgrades. First, it sounds like they are pursuing and are likely to acquire Frazier. Once that deal is complete, they must target another hitter IMO. I would go after a J.Bruce or Y.Alonso. Such an acquisition would lead to reduced playing time for Moreland (and, to a lesser extent, Hanley) and allow the Red Sox to bat Bogaerts lower in the order where he belongs.

[moonslav59]

I'm flabbergasted on why Moreland keeps batting 4th.

 

He did great for us over the first 2-3 months, but he's reverting back to his norm.

 

We have 3 guys better suited for 4th or 5th: HRam, JBJ or Beni (vs RHPs). I won't open the Betts to 4th argument again.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox should look for two offensive upgrades. First, it sounds like they are pursuing and are likely to acquire Frazier. Once that deal is complete, they must target another hitter IMO. I would go after a J.Bruce or Y.Alonso. Such an acquisition would lead to reduced playing time for Moreland (and, to a lesser extent, Hanley) and allow the Red Sox to bat Bogaerts lower in the order where he belongs.

 

Alonso makes more sense than Bruce, but I seriously doubt either happens, even if we traded Moreland.

[Larry Cook]

The Red Sox should look for two offensive upgrades. First, it sounds like they are pursuing and are likely to acquire Frazier. Once that deal is complete, they must target another hitter IMO. I would go after a J.Bruce or Y.Alonso. Such an acquisition would lead to reduced playing time for Moreland (and, to a lesser extent, Hanley) and allow the Red Sox to bat Bogaerts lower in the order where he belongs.

 

I like the idea of hitting bogey lower in the order.

 

I think hanley is playing with one good shoulder and should probably be on the dl.

[moonslav59]

I like the idea of hitting bogey lower in the order.

 

I think hanley is playing with one good shoulder and should probably be on the dl.

 

He's over .900 the last month.

[Larry Cook]

Who be he?

[Station 13]

I'm flabbergasted on why Moreland keeps batting 4th.

 

He did great for us over the first 2-3 months, but he's reverting back to his norm.

 

We have 3 guys better suited for 4th or 5th: HRam, JBJ or Beni (vs RHPs). I won't open the Betts to 4th argument again.

 

Because he is a lefty,Farell somehow has to break up the strings on the front loaded RH portion. That would be a good place to give Benni a more consistent or permanent presence.

 

What would it takes to get Daniel Nava as a bench guy? Young sucks, Sam Travis needs to go down.

[Jasonbay44]

Who be he?

 

Hanley

[oldtimer]

Hanley

 

Last night we had 48PAas got 8 singles, 4 BBs and 12 SO's. The Yankee SP was very good but hard to believe the RP was that good. The guys we expect to hit and rely on are not hitting and even the ones we get on are not running the bases that well. Is there an answer? Those that profess the idea that batting order doesn't matter should consider what has been happening. The guys who have put up somewhat threatening ABs are Pedey, Hanley, Beni, JBJ and Lin. Somehow we need to string those guys together and move those in slumps around so they don't kill every rally. Plate approach is also questionable and may be the cause of some of the slumping. The Sox coontinued to take multiple good pitches, only to put themselves into pitchers counts and swing at balls off the plate. I doubt we can find enough solid hitters either in the minors or through trade to make a significant difference, so we need to try to get more from the roster. Anyone with any other suggestions?

[Bellhorn04]

I like the idea of hitting bogey lower in the order.

 

I think hanley is playing with one good shoulder and should probably be on the dl.

 

After a home run and a Wall single on Saturday?

[sk7326]

So, giving him just 10 games at 3B, after showing he has major problems on defense was okay with you?

 

It's not like he was doing great at 2B or had any future there.

 

If the plan was to call him up and play him at 3B (not DH or 2B), then he should have gotten a much longer look at 3B before throwing him in there at the big league level.

 

they were hoping to get lucky a bit. it was more his sheer inability to make contact than anything which I think spoke to "this is a bit over his head right now" ... Benintendi was taking good at-bats from his first day at work

[oldtimer]

they were hoping to get lucky a bit. it was more his sheer inability to make contact than anything which I think spoke to "this is a bit over his head right now" ... Benintendi was taking good at-bats from his first day at work

 

Devers went 4 for 4 at Pawtucket yesterday including a HR and a double. Castillo didn't get a hit, Holt was 1 for 5 and Brentz was 1 for 5 to give some context. Just one solid hit in Fenway last night might have won it.

[moonslav59]

Because he is a lefty,Farell somehow has to break up the strings on the front loaded RH portion. That would be a good place to give Benni a more consistent or permanent presence.

 

What would it takes to get Daniel Nava as a bench guy? Young sucks, Sam Travis needs to go down.

 

JBJ & Beni are both hitting righties better and are hotter. I'm not big on the lefty-righty thing, but even if you want that, we have better options than Moreland to bat 4th.

[moonslav59]

they were hoping to get lucky a bit. it was more his sheer inability to make contact than anything which I think spoke to "this is a bit over his head right now" ... Benintendi was taking good at-bats from his first day at work

 

Hoping to "get lucky" is not a good plan.

 

As I said, I was fine with the plan of bringing him up to DH, PH and maybe play an inning or tow here and there at 3B. If the plan was to play him 35 innings at 3B, then they made a mistake ("mishandled") on that part of the plan by just giving him 10 games at 3B before his call-up.

 

(Note: they also gave Bogey just 10 games at 3B as well, before thrusting him at a new position in the midst of a hot championship run.)

 

[Bellhorn04]

Hoping to "get lucky" is not a good plan.

 

As I said, I was fine with the plan of bringing him up to DH, PH and maybe play an inning or tow here and there at 3B. If the plan was to play him 35 innings at 3B, then they made a mistake ("mishandled") on that part of the plan by just giving him 10 games at 3B before his call-up.

 

(Note: they also gave Bogey just 10 games at 3B as well, before thrusting him at a new position in the midst of a hot championship run.)

 

 

And trying to get lucky with Bogey worked out pretty good.

 

I agree with sk's general point. I think the idea with Moncada was to give him a look. It wasn't his defense that was his downfall, it was too many swishes.

[moonslav59]

And trying to get lucky with Bogey worked out pretty good.

 

I agree with sk's general point. I think the idea with Moncada was to give him a look. It wasn't his defense that was his downfall, it was too many swishes.

 

I was fine with the call-up.

 

How could it have hurt to give him 20-30 games at 3B instead of 10?

 

We knew where he'd be playing, if he was called up. "The plan" lacked foresight in this one area. They "mishandled" his prep.

 

I remember people blaming Bogey's move to 3B for his poor 2014 batting.

 

[Bellhorn04]

I remember people blaming Bogey's move to 3B for his poor 2014 batting.

 

Sure, but folks are always looking for something to blame. What was to blame for JBJ's poor 2014 batting?