A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[moonslav59]

Chris Sale would disagree.

 

fyi...Sale was 14-2 on after July 2nd start last year. Then he went 3-8 to finish 17-10.

 

In his 15 starts after July 2nd, Sale had 4 bad starts, including one with 8 ER in 5 IP. He also had these lines in the other 10 games...

 

ND 8 IP 0 ER 1H 3BB

Win 8IP 0ER 3H 3BB

Win 9IP 2ER 7H 1BB

ND 8IP 2ER 6H 0BB

Loss 8IP 2 ER 6H 1BB

Loss 8IP 2 ER 8H 1BB

ND 8IP 2 ER 8H 4BB

Loss 9IP 3 ER 5H 0BB

Loss 6 IP 2 ER 6H 3BB

Win 7IP 3ER 8H 0BB

 

He was 4th in MLB in SP'er 2nd half WAR.

5th xFIP at 3.56 (among starters with 90+ IP in the second half)

7th in WHIP at 1.03

11th in ERA- at 77 (among starters with 90+ IP)

 

[Wade Boggs]

In his 15 starts after July 2nd, Sale had 4 bad starts, including one with 8 ER in 5 IP. He also had these lines in the other 10 games...

 

ND 8 IP 0 ER 1H 3BB

Win 8IP 0ER 3H 3BB

Win 9IP 2ER 7H 1BB

ND 8IP 2ER 6H 0BB

Loss 8IP 2 ER 6H 1BB

Loss 8IP 2 ER 8H 1BB

ND 8IP 2 ER 8H 4BB

Loss 9IP 3 ER 5H 0BB

Loss 6 IP 2 ER 6H 3BB

Win 7IP 3ER 8H 0BB

 

He was 4th in MLB in SP'er 2nd half WAR.

5th xFIP at 3.56 (among starters with 90+ IP in the second half)

7th in WHIP at 1.03

11th in ERA- at 77 (among starters with 90+ IP)

 

 

I was using Google for them stats didn't have the patience. The only concern his velocity went down a bit.

[Wade Boggs]

JF won't use Kimbrel for 4 out situation but not a big deal to use him for 6 outs? OK....

 

He had little choice with Barnes throwing that mess of an inning on Monday and Hembree throwing 45 pitches the other night. Ross just came off DL not a spot for him there. Abad can't be trusted yet. Kelly is Kelly. He threw 14 in the 9th. He closes the 10 th with a lead. Don't like bringing Kimbrel in with a tie game on road, but with lead... He's in there.

[Nick]

The White Sox team went south as well. That 3-8 finish had something with uniforms, asking for a trade, tired of losing, not being in the race.. The Laroche thing with his kid. It all took a toll. If the Red Sox can get healthy between injuries and the flu, they will have a good year. The only thing that could stop Sale is an injury. The only way he can go 3-8 in the second half is lack of run support with the Red Sox. I be more concerned with the velocity dip as opposed a 3-8 after all star break record.

 

Ask yourself this. If they didn't trade for Sale..

 

Bingo....It was a great get by DD. I don't care what Moncada and Kopech do. It was a good trade for the Sox.

[Nick]

“I’m going to want the ball in that situation 10 times out of nine,” said Sale about wanting to go back and pitch the ninth. “It is what it is. Do I want to? Yeah. But at the end of the day, he’s the manager and makes the calls. Check the book. Craig’s been pretty damn good back there. We ended up winning.”

 

Yes John, why didn't you just ask him? It was his game to win.

[Bellhorn04]

“I’m going to want the ball in that situation 10 times out of nine,” said Sale about wanting to go back and pitch the ninth. “It is what it is. Do I want to? Yeah. But at the end of the day, he’s the manager and makes the calls. Check the book. Craig’s been pretty damn good back there. We ended up winning.”

 

Yes John, why didn't you just ask him? It was his game to win.

 

A classic damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If Farrell puts Sale back out there and things go wrong you know exactly what the talk would be. Why the f*** didn't Farrell save Sale the wear and tear and give the ball to Kimbrel? Kimbrel's been lights out. f***ing managerial moron.

[Fisk]

A classic damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If Farrell puts Sale back out there and things go wrong you know exactly what the talk would be. Why the f*** didn't Farrell save Sale the wear and tear and give the ball to Kimbrel? Kimbrel's been lights out. f***ing managerial moron.

 

Agree, you have to love the Boston media, they just love to rile up sox fans. Silverman and Cafardo had articles out that questioned Farrels decision, if they kept Sale in and he gave up the homerun they would have questioned that. Very lazy reporting.

[sk7326]

“I’m going to want the ball in that situation 10 times out of nine,” said Sale about wanting to go back and pitch the ninth. “It is what it is. Do I want to? Yeah. But at the end of the day, he’s the manager and makes the calls. Check the book. Craig’s been pretty damn good back there. We ended up winning.”

 

Yes John, why didn't you just ask him? It was his game to win.

 

No. You don't ask him - managers manage. Farrell made the right move. 3-4-5 guys were getting their 4th look at Sale - always a fraught position for a pitcher. (Sale lost the Detroit start on the 4th go in the order when Farrell took too long to hit the eject button) Kimbrel has been dominant so far (and was in this appearance, struck out 5 of the 7 guys he faced).

 

The move did not work - but he played the percentages.

[Nick]

No. You don't ask him - managers manage. Farrell made the right move. 3-4-5 guys were getting their 4th look at Sale - always a fraught position for a pitcher. (Sale lost the Detroit start on the 4th go in the order when Farrell took too long to hit the eject button) Kimbrel has been dominant so far (and was in this appearance, struck out 5 of the 7 guys he faced).

 

The move did not work - but he played the percentages.

 

I disagree. No, you don't ask E Rod, Pomeranz nor Wright. But you ask an elite pitcher when he's pitching at a high level. It was HIS game to lose.

Some of the best moves are the ones you DON'T make.

[sk7326]

I disagree. No, you don't ask E Rod, Pomeranz nor Wright. But you ask an elite pitcher when he's pitching at a high level. It was HIS game to lose.

Some of the best moves are the ones you DON'T make.

 

Toronto's guys getting a 4th look at Sale combined with having a pretty darn good relief option ... gotta trust Kimbrel to bring that in ... a power hitter caught a 97 mph clean, that's life

[mvp 78]

I said at the time that Sale should have pitched the 9th, but it's not like Kimbrel was a horrible option. Sale was only at 102 pitches or so. I thought you'd give him a few more batters and pull him if a runner gets on. Sale was lights out yesterday.

[moonslav59]

Toronto's guys getting a 4th look at Sale combined with having a pretty darn good relief option ... gotta trust Kimbrel to bring that in ... a power hitter caught a 97 mph clean, that's life

 

Sale is good enough to overcome the whole "4th time" aspect, but I had no issue bringiung in Kimbrel.

[sk7326]

Sale is good enough to overcome the whole "4th time" aspect, but I had no issue bringiung in Kimbrel.

 

I would have not had an issue with bringing him in. But of course, Sale's loss in Detroit also involved the 4th time - it is always a challenge for pitchers. Between putting Sale out there with a quick eject button and getting Kimbrel in with a clean inning ... I don't consider that a mistake by Farrell at all

[Emp9]

I have James Paxton in fantasy as well but failed in my bid to get Mitch Haniger. My team likewise is reeling from Starling Marte's suspension. For the second April in a row my fantasy team lost a base-stealer with the club's second-highest salary to an 80-day PED suspension. Last year it was Dee Gordon.

 

Ugh, you had Gordon last year as well. That's unfortunate. I went heavy on speed this year, losing Marte won't hurt me that much I don't think (R.Davis, Peraza, Nunez, even Betts). I even drafted Villar but I traded him for Dozier.

 

Paxton wasn't as good last night (still 8 k tho), but I'm usually quite patient. Quintana & Porcello have also thrown some stinkers in the early going. Think I'm gonna have to just ride it out.

[Nick]

There's a big difference between Sale pitching his normal game versus him pitching one of his 'outstanding' games. He was on fire yesterday. You have to pick and choose but yesterday he deserved to finish the game.

 

No true Sox fan would have complained had he pitched the 9th inning.

[sk7326]

There's a big difference between Sale pitching his normal game versus him pitching one of his 'outstanding' games. He was on fire yesterday. You have to pick and choose but yesterday he deserved to finish the game.

 

No true Sox fan would have complained had he pitched the 9th inning.

 

He has been outstanding in all of his starts.

[Station 13]

It was not a wrong move to let Kimbrel close out that game, it was his job to do that. Sucks for Sale pitch yet another gem and has nothing to show for it.

[Fisk]

There's a big difference between Sale pitching his normal game versus him pitching one of his 'outstanding' games. He was on fire yesterday. You have to pick and choose but yesterday he deserved to finish the game.

 

No true Sox fan would have complained had he pitched the 9th inning.

 

Sorry but every sox fan would have complained if he gave up the home run. It's in the blood of sox fans.

[Emp9]

What are really concerned about here? Sale's individual win record?

[Station 13]

What are really concerned about here? Sale's individual win record?

 

If Sale wins, the Red Sox wins too.

[Slasher9]

It was not a wrong move to let Kimbrel close out that game, it was his job to do that. Sucks for Sale pitch yet another gem and has nothing to show for it.

 

exactly.

and who's to say that Sale doesn't give up a bloop and a blast in the top of the 9th and we get walked off?

it's a W for the Red Sox. that's what matters...

[notin]

I disagree. No, you don't ask E Rod, Pomeranz nor Wright. But you ask an elite pitcher when he's pitching at a high level. It was HIS game to lose.

Some of the best moves are the ones you DON'T make.

 

So for superstar players, baseball is not a team sport?

[Bellhorn04]

There's a big difference between Sale pitching his normal game versus him pitching one of his 'outstanding' games. He was on fire yesterday. You have to pick and choose but yesterday he deserved to finish the game.

 

No true Sox fan would have complained had he pitched the 9th inning.

 

Are you Nick Cafardo?

[mvp 78]

Are you Nick Cafardo?

 

He is a Nick Cafardo, but not a true Nick Cafardo.

[notin]

I can't believe change and sportswriters are arguing that a pitcher should have been allowed to throw a complete game in April. Do the Sox really need to disk putting Sale on the DL with Price?

[moonslav59]

I can't believe change and sportswriters are arguing that a pitcher should have been allowed to throw a complete game in April. Do the Sox really need to disk putting Sale on the DL with Price?

 

You make a good point, but 102 pitches is what some give us in 5 IP.

[Bellhorn04]

Sale was at 102 pitches after 8, but if a couple of Jays batters got on or had long at-bats, he might have ended up at 125 pitches.

[Fisk]

I can't believe change and sportswriters are arguing that a pitcher should have been allowed to throw a complete game in April. Do the Sox really need to disk putting Sale on the DL with Price?

 

The writers are just looking for some sort of controversy, looking for as many views as possible.

 

Much prefer Speier and the projo writers who give very good insight, compared to the Cafardos and Silvermans, who I find lazy.

[moonslav59]

Sale was at 102 pitches after 8, but if a couple of Jays batters got on or had long at-bats, he might have ended up at 125 pitches.

 

The thought would be to yank him, if one guy gets on, unless it was an IF single or blooper or yank him if 2 guys get on or he's near 115-120 pitches with 0-1 outs and a guy at second.

 

I've already said, I have no problem bringing in Kimbrel, but certainly at 102 pitches a case can be made, April or not, for leaving him in for a few more pitches.

[Fisk]

The thought would be to yank him, if one guy gets on, unless it was an IF single or blooper or yank him if 2 guys get on or he's near 115-120 pitches with 0-1 outs and a guy at second.

 

I've already said, I have no problem bringing in Kimbrel, but certainly at 102 pitches a case can be made, April or not, for leaving him in for a few more pitches.

 

The case could be made but if he gave up a lead off home run or even a hit the complaints would have been, why not Kimbrel.