2017 Rotation Discussion

[Kimmi]

But, they've played the game and/or have watched 90 years of baseball!

They can't possibly be wrong...

 

The point being that just because people who 'have actually played the game' believe that something is true, that does not necessarily mean that it is true.

 

Perhaps line up protection (among other things) is an illusion, just like the rising fast ball.

[moonslav59]

I don't think anyone actually believes the ball rises. If they do, then maybe there's room for them in the Trump Administration.

 

It's just a term for a ball that doesn't drop or appear to drop as much as expected or as it's supposed to drop.

[S5Dewey]

The point being that just because people who 'have actually played the game' believe that something is true, that does not necessarily mean that it is true.

 

Perhaps line up protection (among other things) is an illusion, just like the rising fast ball.

 

That's fair, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's not true either.

[Kimmi]

I don't think anyone actually believes the ball rises. If they do, then maybe there's room for them in the Trump Administration.

 

It's just a term for a ball that doesn't drop or appear to drop as much as expected or as it's supposed to drop.

 

I don't know, listening to Eck, I think he believes it. LOL

[Kimmi]

That's fair, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's not true either.

 

Fair enough.

[cp176]

Does the pencil bend when you wag in front of your face. No but it looks like it does. obviously there are fastballs that look like they rise to pitchers and hitters. If they look like they do, it makes 0 difference whether they do or do not.

[SoxnCycles]

I don't know, listening to Eck, I think he believes it. LOL

 

Yup, he mentions it almost every time Kimbrel is on the mound.

I've yet to hear the term "illusion" from him.

Edited August 7, 2017 by SoxnCycles

[Kimmi]

Yup, he mentions it almost every time Kimbrel is on the mound.

I've yet to hear the term "illusion" from him.

 

He even said something along the lines of, "Look at that fastball rise. Don't tell me a fastball can't rise!"

 

I love Eck. "You don't want to lose your cheese." LOL

[SoxnCycles]

He even said something along the lines of, "Look at that fastball rise. Don't tell me a fastball can't rise!"

 

I love Eck. "You don't want to lose your cheese." LOL

 

He's definitely one of the best, even if he did skip physics in HS.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

If Price begins to look like he won't come back

 

Sounds like Price is still experiencing soreness: http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/08/david_price_injury_boston_red_7.html

 

Good chance, I would think, that he doesn't come back until Sept when rosters expand. We will then find out if he can help in October.

 

If his career is going to continue like this, it would make sense to go under the knife (Tommy John) as soon as possible.

[mvp 78]

Sounds like Price is still experiencing soreness: http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/08/david_price_injury_boston_red_7.html

 

Good chance, I would think, that he doesn't come back until Sept when rosters expand. We will then find out if he can help in October.

 

If his career is going to continue like this, it would make sense to go under the knife (Tommy John) as soon as possible.

 

I've said all along that he's going to have to have surgery at some point. I don't know why they didn't do this in ST.

 

I think there's a 50/50 chance he doesn't pitch again this year.

[S5Dewey]

I've said all along that he's going to have to have surgery at some point. I don't know why they didn't do this in ST.

 

I think there's a 50/50 chance he doesn't pitch again this year.

 

I see a better than 50/50 chance that he doesn't pitch next year either. Then we'll find out how badly he dislikes pitching in Boston. Enough to walk away from all that money???

[mvp 78]

I see a better than 50/50 chance that he doesn't pitch next year either. Then we'll find out how badly he dislikes pitching in Boston. Enough to walk away from all that money???

 

So he comes off a TJS and opts out of $20M/year? Maybe? Maybe he thinks that he can pitch well one year and earn a longer term deal after that?

 

I think if he gets surgery, he's stuck here. That's probably why he's been hesitant to fix his magical healing arm.

[S5Dewey]

So he comes off a TJS and opts out of $20M/year? Maybe? Maybe he thinks that he can pitch well one year and earn a longer term deal after that?

 

I think if he gets surgery, he's stuck here. That's probably why he's been hesitant to fix his magical healing arm.

 

I'm thinking that he may try to opt out and get a contract with a team that's willing to take a chance and pay him ~$15M/year. If he wants to get out of Boston as much as he appears to want to it may be worth it to him to eat $6M/year if he still has $15M coming in.

 

$6M will buy a lot of bananas, but $15M will still provide a pretty good lifestyle. It'll be interesting to read the book he writes about his stay in Boston.

[Bellhorn04]

Just for clarification, if Price opts out after 2018, he will be opting out of 4 years and 127 million, or 31.75 million per year on average.

[moonslav59]

Just for clarification, if Price opts out after 2018, he will be opting out of 4 years and 127 million, or 31.75 million per year on average.

 

Yes, $127M/4.

 

We'd free up $31M on the luxury tax budget for the 4 years remaining.

[SoxnCycles]

Yes, $127M/4.

 

We'd free up $31M on the luxury tax budget for the 4 years remaining.

 

God, I hope he opts out.

Duct tape his elbow and get him back out there.

[Slasher9]

I disagree with you in this . I was vocal about it during the off season, and one of us has been proved right.

 

2016 record vs 2017 record?

who has proved what?

[Slasher9]

does a submarine pitchers FB rise?

 

dont worry about Price. BABIP! BABIP! BABIP!

 

plus small sample size of postseason pitching. he couldnt possibly be a chocker?!?

[SoxnCycles]

does a submarine pitchers FB rise?

 

dont worry about Price. BABIP! BABIP! BABIP!

 

plus small sample size of postseason pitching. he couldnt possibly be a chocker?!?

 

I'm not worried about Price.

He's probably done for the year.

[Bellhorn04]

does a submarine pitchers FB rise?

 

I was going to ask that too.

[Slasher9]

I'm not worried about Price.

He's probably done for the year.

 

lol. perfect.

[illinoisredsox]

Sidd Finch was able to make his fastball rise.

[illinoisredsox]

does a submarine pitchers FB rise?

 

I was going to ask that too.

 

Now, to reality.

 

It depends on what you mean by "rise". If you mean does the ball cross the plate at a higher point than it is released, them yes, a submariner does make the ball rise. Wasn't is Darin O'Day who basically threw the ball from almost ground level?

 

If you mean actually rise, then no. To actually rise, a pitcher would to develop lift on the ball greater than the weight of the ball. That would entail generating a bottom to top spin, a very high spin rate and a very high velocity.

 

The attached outlines the physics of it. The bottom line is no, at least today's athletes cannot make a ball actually rise.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-physics-of-a-rising-fastball/

 

They use Aroldis Chapman as a subject, and it concludes that if he kept his current spin rate (2350 rpm), he could (theoretically), get the ball to rise if he could thrown the ball at about 113 mph. Or, if he kept his current velocity, he would need to increase his spin rate to 3100 rpm to make it rise. However, that only accounts for the ball out of his hand. The ball loses speed over the course of it's journey to the plate, so the initial velocity would have to be 9-10 mph higher than it is right now (i.e., he would have to release the ball at around 122-123 mph).

 

A submariner might not have to throw the ball quite that hard, but to impart the same spin, it would have to be done as a breaking pitch which means less initial velocity.

Edited August 8, 2017 by illinoisredsox

[moonslav59]

When I throw a baseball high over my head, it rises.

 

When a pitch is released in may rise initially, reach it's apex and then start declining due to gravitational forces.

 

For the purposes of this discussion, the "rising fastball" appears to rise towards the end of its journey to the plate, when actually it is probably just that it does not fall as much as a batter (or observing fan) might expect or is accustomed to seeing.

 

The ball does not and can not rise after the apex.

[Larry Cook]

What is the definition of despair?

 

The rays finally get sale out of the game, but wait now they have to face Kimbrel!!!

[moonslav59]

Nice to see Sale bounce back in a big way after that horrible last start.

 

Nice to see Bogey showing signs of heating up.

 

Nunez is el fuego!

 

Everyone but Leon got a hit, a run or an RBI. Not bad for a 2 run game.

 

[moonslav59]

Oh, and the 16 Ks were sweet!

[Nick]

Sale, Kimbrel, Nunez and Pom....now they are nice pickups by DD. We'll see what Carson Smith hype is all about. He's under team control for next three years, 2018-2020.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

B.Johnson was placed on the 7-day DL in late July, came back on Aug 5, went 5 innings in AAA. Let's see how he does in his next start which should be coming up in a matter of days.