2017 Rotation Discussion

[Kimmi]

It's almost similar to deciding whether to receive social security check at age 62 or wait until you turn 66, at much higher amount. Advantage goes to the guy that's drawing at 62 for first three or four years but.... On the other hand, you can also drop dead at 65 and receive NOTHING.

Not that you would care because you are dead.

 

The point is Pom's last two starts have giving the Sox TWO WINS. Last I checked, Espinoza had not won a damn thing. There you go.

 

And for Kimmi's gang, if I die before 2021, I won't have to go over the cliff with you all.

 

Oh, but you know you want to go over the cliff with us.

 

For the record, I have supported the Pom trade all along, except for the questionable medical reports and Dombrowski not backing out of the trade when he had the chance if there is indeed something seriously wrong with Pom.

 

But in terms of the actual trade, I didn't like the what we gave up, but felt like it was a trade that needed to be done.

[Kimmi]

Very nice start by Pomeranz last night, BTW.

 

His last 2 starts have been very encouraging.

[cp176]

So on a conspiracy not of sorts - did the Red Sox know for sure that Espinoza was 100% healthy when the trade was made? One of them is currently pitching and one is not.

[sk7326]

So on a conspiracy not of sorts - did the Red Sox know for sure that Espinoza was 100% healthy when the trade was made? One of them is currently pitching and one is not.

 

What they knew was that Espinoza was 18 ... so there is a large range of outcomes, where arm health figures prominently. The defensible part of the trade (I was not fan because of a Top 20 sort of prospect should get more imo) is that pitchers are larger health risks in general. I am reading "The Arm" presently - there is just so much teams don't know about arm maintenance at that age.

[cp176]

ok - so you know or you think you know what they knew? I'm really just curious and not trying to start something here. If you know then for sure I will go with pretty much what you say with respect to situations like this from here on in.. Do you know or do you kind of assume that it is likely that Espinoza was 100% healthy at the time of the trade?

[sk7326]

ok - so you know or you think you know what they knew? I'm really just curious and not trying to start something here. If you know then for sure I will go with pretty much what you say with respect to situations like this from here on in.. Do you know or do you kind of assume that it is likely that Espinoza was 100% healthy at the time of the trade?

 

I am speculating of course. Sorry to imply otherwise. But it is one of the realities with stocking your farm - while finding arms is super important, the volatility is higher too.

[cp176]

I got you. You really did not imply anything. It just seems so very interesting to me now and actually I was in favor of the trade partly because of how I feel about teenage prospects in general.

[Nick]

Oh, but you know you want to go over the cliff with us.

 

For the record, I have supported the Pom trade all along, except for the questionable medical reports and Dombrowski not backing out of the trade when he had the chance if there is indeed something seriously wrong with Pom.

 

But in terms of the actual trade, I didn't like the what we gave up, but felt like it was a trade that needed to be done.

 

I always appreciate your thoughtful threads. Me, I'm more like a little kid, always whining and throwing tantrums.

[mvp 78]

I always appreciate your thoughtful threads. Me, I'm more like a little kid, always whining and throwing tantrums.

 

Join the club.

[cp176]

E-Rod to the dl - these are fragile times!

[oldtimer]

E-Rod to the dl - these are fragile times!

 

Yes, he twisted a knee while getting ready last night. It may explain why he got hit as hard as he did.

[Kimmi]

I always appreciate your thoughtful threads. Me, I'm more like a little kid, always whining and throwing tantrums.

 

Thank you.

 

I have my tantrum throwing moments, but I try not to post during them. LOL

[Kimmi]

E-Rod to the dl - these are fragile times!

 

It seems that his knee problems are something that could be a recurring issue throughout his career.

 

Not what we needed when it looked like ERod was starting to put it together.

 

Looks like Johnson will get the call the next time we need 5th pitcher.

[moonslav59]

Big bummer.

 

I hope he's not out long.

[Station 13]

FFS can we ever catch a break.

[mvp 78]

Looking like a lost season.

[Bellhorn04]

Looking like a lost season.

 

I wouldn't go that far just yet but I understand the sentiment. I've had serious doubts since the outset.

[Spudboy]

f***ing klutz.

[moonslav59]

It does seem like there is a strong correlation between having a healthy rotation and winning a lot and winning championships. Plus, of course, how good the rotation is matters a lot, too.

 

Games started:

 

2003:95-67 (only 10+ starts listed)

33 Lowe

33 Wake

30 Burkett

29 Pedro

14 Fossum/10 Suppan

 

2004: 98-64 Championship

33 Pedro

33 Lowe

32 Schilling

32 Wakefield

32 Arroyo

 

2005:95-67 (No more Pedro era begins)

33 Wake

32 Arroyo

32 Clement

30 Wells

16 W Miller/11 Schilling

 

2006: 86-76

33 Beckett

31 Schilling

23 Wake

15 Lester

12 Clement/10 Snyder

 

2007: 101-61 (The Beckett era's 2nd year)

32 Dice K

31 Wake

30 Beckett

24 Schilling

23 Tavarez/11 Lester

 

2008: 95-67 (The Lester era begins)

33 Lester

30 Wake

29 Dice-K

27 Beckett

15 Buch (9 Masterson/8 P Byrd)

 

2009:95-67

32 Lester

32 Beckett

24 Penny

21 Wake

16 Buch/12 Dice-K (8 Smoltz)

 

2010:89-73 (4.40 ERA or higher with 4 of these 6)

33 Lackey

32 Lester

28 Buch

25 Dice-K

21 Beckett/19 Wake

 

2011: 94-68

31 Lester

30 Beckett

28 Lackey (6.41 ERA)

23 Wake

14 Buch/12 A Miller (8 Bedard & 7 Dice K)

 

2012: 74-88 (Year of CC, Beckett, AGon Purge)

(Note: no starter ERA below 4.56!)

33 Lester (4.82)

29 Buch (4.56)

29 Doubront (4.86)

21 Beckett (5.23)

18 A Cook (5.65)/11 Dice-K (8.28)/10 Bard (6.22)

 

2013: 97-65 Championship

(Note: No starter ERA above 4.57- the exact opposite of 2012!)

33 Lester

29 Lackey (healthy)

29 Dempster

27 Doubront

16 Buch/10 Peavy

 

2014:72-90 (The Great Rotation Purge season)

28 Buch (5.24)

21 Lester- traded

21 Lackey- traded

20 Peavy- traded

10 Doubront- traded

18 de la Rosa/15 Workman/11 Webster/10 J Kelly (7 Ranaudo)

 

2015: 78-84

32 W Miley

28 Porcello (4.92 but wins Cy Young the next year)

25 Kelly

21 ERod

18 Buch/11 Owens (Yes! Buck Owens!)

(9 by Wright & Masterson)

 

2016:93-69 (The Price era begins and all 5 starters start 20+ games.)

35 Price

33 Porcello (3.15)

24 Wright

21 Buch

20 ERod/13 Pom

 

2017:29-24 (on pace for 89-73) The Chris Sale Era begins.

11 Sale

11 Porcello

10 ERod (on DL now)

1 Price

5 Wright (Done for year.)

10 Pom

2 Johnson/2 Kendrick/1 Velazquez

 

 

 

Having a great rotation, especially with the top 3 or 4 slots is important, but it seems like equally important is how healthy the rotation is bot in terms of GS'd and starts made while injured (Lackey/Buch) or healthy.

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't go that far just yet but I understand the sentiment. I've had serious doubts since the outset.

 

Lots of injuries. Seems like bad juju.

[a700hitter]

f***ing klutz.

The kid went down like a sack of s*** in the bullpen.

[Spudboy]

The kid went down like a sack of s*** in the bullpen.

 

He should have been fitted with a knee brace and sent back out.

 

He may have great potential but I fear he is as stupid as Buch and Doubrant.

[Kimmi]

Looking like a lost season.

 

I wouldn't go that far just yet but I understand the sentiment. I've had serious doubts since the outset.

 

You guys are killing me.

[Spudboy]

You guys are killing me.

 

So you a lot of confidence that E-Rod will be a very solid contributor this season?

[oldtimer]

Great news tonight with Price looking like the guy we had hoped for. It was better than I expected and may give up a leg up on the competition going forward.

[moonslav59]

You guys are killing me.

 

The funny thing is, before the two losses to the O's, people seemed optimistic about the direction of the team.

 

Just a puny two game sample size seems to change everything.

[a700hitter]

So you a lot of confidence that E-Rod will be a very solid contributor this season?

Last spring you called it right when he hurt his knee at the beginning of spring training. You feared that it would be a lost season for him, and it was just that. A knee problem for a pitcher is significant. A pitcher needs healthy pins, especially a starting pitcher.

[Wade Boggs]

Great news tonight with Price looking like the guy we had hoped for. It was better than I expected and may give up a leg up on the competition going forward.

 

He pitched great. He kept his pitch count down and was dealing. Hopefully he can keep it up.

[Kimmi]

So you a lot of confidence that E-Rod will be a very solid contributor this season?

 

I am concerned about ERod's recurring knee injury, but I'll remain optimistic that he'll return sooner rather than later and be a solid contributor this season.

[Kimmi]

On a related note, Johnson left the game last night with a calf injury of some sort.

 

No word yet on his status.