What will be the 2017 greatest weakness for the Sox?

[dgalehouse]

Sox fans , for the most part , are loyal. But they can be tough on newcomers. When a newly acquired player gets off to a poor start , things can get kind of ugly. A thick skin is required.

[moonslav59]

We have seen many players who can't seem to handle the scrutiny of the Boston fans and the Boston media. Having a player underperform because of the scrutiny can certainly impact the overall success of the team. I don't see it as a problem for this team because of the overall quality of the players, but it is certainly not an absurd idea.

 

It's hard to prove someone had a bad year because of the spotlight. The Renteria case looks like the pressure got to him, but he was playing hurt all year as well.

 

No, it's not absurd to think it might get to some players, but my point is that if this can get under some of our players' skin, then the pressure of the playoffs would expose that weakness eventually or anyways.

 

[moonslav59]

They will miss the that big bat and its' threat in the middle of their lineup.

 

No doubt, but how many teams have all these numbers returning for 2017?

 

.318 31 113 (.897 OPS)

.286 30 111 (.866)

.294 21 89 (.802)

.267 26 87 (.835)

.318 15 74 (.825)

plus...

.310 7 35 in 283 PAs

.295 2 14 in 118 PAs

.276 9 24 in 227 PAs

 

[a700hitter]

We have seen many players who can't seem to handle the scrutiny of the Boston fans and the Boston media. Having a player underperform because of the scrutiny can certainly impact the overall success of the team. I don't see it as a problem for this team because of the overall quality of the players, but it is certainly not an absurd idea.

Ridiculously absurd. Do you watch or go to games. The fans have always been extremely supportive of Red Sox players with rare exceptions. The press and media can be tough for players, but they shouldn't be confused with the fan-base. Also, for someone who argues against the existence of clutch players, it is funny to me that you are making the argument that fan sentiment has the possibility of ruining the season for an entire team. That notion is absurd.

[moonslav59]

Ridiculously absurd. Do you watch or go to games. The fans have always been extremely supportive of Red Sox players with rare exceptions. The press and media can be tough for players, but they shouldn't be confused with the fan-base. Also, for someone who argues against the existence of clutch players, it is funny to me that you are making the argument that fan sentiment has the possibility of ruining the season for an entire team. That notion is absurd.

 

I will say, I believe our fans are way more of a plus than any minuses that may happen infrequently.

[Spudboy]

They will miss the that big bat and its' threat in the middle of their lineup.

 

Oh Christ no.

 

Now that you have pointed this obvious point out all the statisticians will inundate the thread with all the WAR that will be replace by a full year of this guy and another good pitcher, etc.

 

You know. The Sox were scoring too many runs anyway!

[Spudboy]

Sox fans , for the most part , are loyal. But they can be tough on newcomers. When a newly acquired player gets off to a poor start , things can get kind of ugly. A thick skin is required.

 

Like the cubic yards of blubber on Fatboy.

[Spudboy]

Ridiculously absurd. Do you watch or go to games. The fans have always been extremely supportive of Red Sox players with rare exceptions. The press and media can be tough for players, but they shouldn't be confused with the fan-base. Also, for someone who argues against the existence of clutch players, it is funny to me that you are making the argument that fan sentiment has the possibility of ruining the season for an entire team. That notion is absurd.

 

Lol.

[moonslav59]

like the cubic yards of blubber on fatboy.

 

lmao!

[cp176]

Oh Christ no.

 

Now that you have pointed this obvious point out all the statisticians will inundate the thread with all the WAR that will be replace by a full year of this guy and another good pitcher, etc.

 

You know. The Sox were scoring too many runs anyway!

 

I just got bored. Even though it was just a simple sentence I knew that I couldn't sneak it by. Let the good stats fly.

[Bellhorn04]

It's hard to prove someone had a bad year because of the spotlight. The Renteria case looks like the pressure got to him, but he was playing hurt all year as well.

 

No, it's not absurd to think it might get to some players, but my point is that if this can get under some of our players' skin, then the pressure of the playoffs would expose that weakness eventually or anyways.

 

 

Renteria is just one of many examples of big-name acquisitions who have performed below expectations in their first year in Boston. In the last 2 seasons we have 5 of them: Price, Kimbrel, Porcello, Hanley and Pablo.

[moonslav59]

Renteria is just one of many examples of big-name acquisitions who have performed below expectations in their first year in Boston. In the last 2 seasons we have 5 of them: Price, Kimbrel, Porcello, Hanley and Pablo.

 

Are there some players that had one of their best seasons in their first year in Boston?

 

I can think of Bill Mueller. He'd never been over .780 in any season with 400+ PAs, and he went to .938 in 2003. Ortiz. Carp went mental in his first season with Boston, though it was just a partial season.

 

I'm sure there are more.

[a700hitter]

Renteria is just one of many examples of big-name acquisitions who have performed below expectations in their first year in Boston. In the last 2 seasons we have 5 of them: Price, Kimbrel, Porcello, Hanley and Pablo.

The fans are to blame!!

[moonslav59]

The fans are to blame!!

 

You're right about the absurdity of it.

[a700hitter]

It makes me chuckle that the same people who vehemently argue against the existence of "clutch" players also believe that an entire teams' performance can be crushed by their home fans. Inconsistent and absurd.

[moonslav59]

It makes me chuckle that the same people who vehemently argue against the existence of "clutch" players also believe that an entire teams' performance can be crushed by their home fans. Inconsistent and absurd.

 

Maybe they blame the lack of clutch on too much pressure from the fans- like thousands of fans screaming loudly for you to get a hit hurts your concentration.

 

Maybe we should all be silent during clutch moments!

 

[Dojji]

It's hard to prove someone had a bad year because of the spotlight.

 

Yes because the fact that something can't be proven definitely means we should ignore the possibility entirely. Absolutely this is the case

 

anyway my big gripe with the fans isn't so much trying to get our guys down, as kicking them when they're down. Once a guy shows he has a weakness the fans are merciless, and I'm sure it shouldn't be that way.

[a700hitter]

Maybe they blame the lack of clutch on too much pressure from the fans- like thousands of fans screaming loudly for you to get a hit hurts your concentration.

 

Maybe we should all be silent during clutch moments!

 

Like Tennis and Golf

[a700hitter]

Yes because the fact that something can't be proven definitely means we should ignore the possibility entirely. Absolutely this is the case .

Just like the concept of "Clutch"

[Bellhorn04]

Well, I'm a strong believer in psychological factors. I always have been.

[Bellhorn04]

Are there some players that had one of their best seasons in their first year in Boston?

 

I can think of Bill Mueller. He'd never been over .780 in any season with 400+ PAs, and he went to .938 in 2003. Ortiz. Carp went mental in his first season with Boston, though it was just a partial season.

 

I'm sure there are more.

 

I was talking about big-name acquisitions. 'Splashy' acquisitions, if you like.

[Dojji]

Just like the concept of "Clutch"

 

Sure. Clutch is a thing, I've never denied it. In fact in my mind clutch is directly related -- clutch IMHO is the absence of these psychological factors that can limit a player's success in intense situations.

[moonslav59]

I was talking about big-name acquisitions. 'Splashy' acquisitions, if you like.

 

Okay.

 

Manny had a great first year here- no greater- no worse anyway than before.

 

Johnny Damon did much better than his previous season before joining the Sox.

 

Keith Foulke did not let up his first year, but then fell off a cliff.

 

VMart and Beltre.

 

But, you are right- not much recently.

 

 

 

 

[a700hitter]

Sure. Clutch is a thing, I've never denied it. In fact in my mind clutch is directly related -- clutch IMHO is the absence of these psychological factors that can limit a player's success in intense situations.

I agree.

[sk7326]

Biggest question is the bullpen, because of course it is. It's the one area of a team that I couldn't trust even if everybody was in place ...

[sk7326]

I was talking about big-name acquisitions. 'Splashy' acquisitions, if you like.

 

Adrian Beltre

[moonslav59]

Adrian Beltre

 

I mentioned him below.

[User Name]

I don't believe in "clutch", I believe in "Choke". Douchey fans can be a factor in some players being more prone to choking when the fans are on their back, but that's just me.

[a700hitter]

I don't believe in "clutch", I believe in "Choke". Douchey fans can be a factor in some players being more prone to choking when the fans are on their back, but that's just me.

I don't think the home town fans have ever ruined its team's season. The Red Sox almost always have a significantly better home record. And I also think that clutch is just the absence of choke in big spots.

[sk7326]

I don't believe in "clutch", I believe in "Choke". Douchey fans can be a factor in some players being more prone to choking when the fans are on their back, but that's just me.

 

Is the overlap between "Really good players" and "players good by some sort of clutch criteria" small enough to pay a ton extra for it? I just don't see it.