3rd Third III

[Spudboy]

I just love the creative math.

 

So I will offer up some myself!

 

Pablow represents about 11% of the manpower on the field at any time.

 

And somehow he only contributes about half of what should be expected at 6%.

 

So, yeah. He sucks.

[moonslav59]

So, yeah. He sucks.

 

Yeah, but I'm not thrilled with Marrero & Rutledge either.

 

Until Devers is called up, I'm keeping any glimmer of hope alive.

[a700hitter]

So, yeah. He sucks.

 

Yeah, but I'm not thrilled with Marrero & Rutledge either.

 

Until Devers is called up, I'm keeping any glimmer of hope alive.

There is no hope of Pablo performing to his contract.

[Wade Boggs]

To piggy back off of something you posted a couple days ago, the Sox are 17-11 when Pablo plays (.607 win %) and 15-10 when he starts (.600 win %). They are 20-17 when Pablo doesn't play (.540 win %).

 

Coincidence? I think not!

 

i think you forgot the stat he's hitting .208... Lol.

[oldtimer]

i think you forgot the stat he's hitting .208... Lol.

What is his yearly contract? Nineteen Million? How much is that for each hit?

[Jack Flap]

Despite being under .500, the Royals are by no means out of the AL Central race, but there seems to be an assumption out there that they will be sellers when all is said and done, so I wonder what it would take to land Moustakas. As he'll be a free agent after the season, the price would hopefully not be exorbitant, and adding a power bat at third would give our lineup a completely different look (and allow Devers to spend the rest of the year in Pawtucket rather than being rushed up to Boston and expected to save the season).

[moonslav59]

There is no hope of Pablo performing to his contract.

 

Very true, but we'll be paying that contract whether he plays or not, so it's all about keeping all our 3B options and slim hopes alive until someone comes to the rescue, be it Devers or an acquisition.

[moonslav59]

Despite being under .500, the Royals are by no means out of the AL Central race, but there seems to be an assumption out there that they will be sellers when all is said and done, so I wonder what it would take to land Moustakas. As he'll be a free agent after the season, the price would hopefully not be exorbitant, and adding a power bat at third would give our lineup a completely different look (and allow Devers to spend the rest of the year in Pawtucket rather than being rushed up to Boston and expected to save the season).

 

I wouldn't overpay for a rental, but maybe Moustakas would agree to an extension as part of the trade. Then, I'd be prepared to offer what it might take, then again, signing Moustakas longterm might prevent us from keeping Bogey or JBJ.

 

Tough call.

 

My guess is we go "light" and try to find lightening in a bottle in hopes that just mediocrity at 3B will be a big boost over what we've seen so far.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't want Moustakas as a long term solution. Devers has a much higher ceiling than Moustakas.

[Jack Flap]

I don't see why we'd need to extend him...Devers should take over third base no later than sometime next season.

 

And no, I wouldn't overpay, either...we probably can't afford to after recent trades. It's probably more likely that we see some more modest moves (taking a flyer on someone like Peralta or Plouffe) until Devers is ready.

[notin]

Despite being under .500, the Royals are by no means out of the AL Central race, but there seems to be an assumption out there that they will be sellers when all is said and done, so I wonder what it would take to land Moustakas. As he'll be a free agent after the season, the price would hopefully not be exorbitant, and adding a power bat at third would give our lineup a completely different look (and allow Devers to spend the rest of the year in Pawtucket rather than being rushed up to Boston and expected to save the season).

 

The price for Mistakes will depend heavily on how many other teams want a 3b. But at a minimum you have to give up more than the sandwich pick he will inevitably be worth to KC.

 

 

 

I suspect the Sox won't be able to meet that price and will have to look for alternatives. Trevor Plouffe is one name I have bandied about. And Jhonny Peralta, whom Dombrowski has acquired before, is currently a free agent.

[Jack Flap]

The price for Mistakes will depend heavily on how many other teams want a 3b.

 

Well I don't think we should trade for a guy named Mistakes...that just sounds like a bad idea.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Jack Flap

[notin]

I wouldn't want Moustakas as a long term solution. Devers has a much higher ceiling than Moustakas.

 

I'm not so sure. Moustakas is one of the best all around 3b in MLB. If not for the occasional health issues, his track record might be more impressive.

 

Moustakas is probably a good guess for the ceiling of Devers.

[notin]

Well I don't think we should trade for a guy named Mistakes...that just sounds like a bad idea.

 

f***ing auto correct.

 

Although I should give it some credit for the self-irony, in that when I type "f***ing", the predictive text suggests my next words will be "auto correct. "

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't want Moustakas as a long term solution. Devers has a much higher ceiling than Moustakas.

 

Devers could play 1B, but I'm not sure I'd want to pay large and long for Moustakas, if it meant we might lose Bogey or JBJ.

[Kimmi]

i think you forgot the stat he's hitting .208... Lol.

 

LOL

 

No, I couldn't possibly forget about his .208 batting average. I'm reminded of how awful Pablo is every day, several times a day. Just making an observation.

[Kimmi]

So, yeah. He sucks.

 

Yeah, but I'm not thrilled with Marrero & Rutledge either.

 

Until Devers is called up, I'm keeping any glimmer of hope alive.

 

Pablo has stunk, on both sides of the ball. That said, it would still be in the team's best interest if Pablo can play even 'adequately'. They have to give him a long enough look with consistent playing time.

[mvp 78]

I'm not so sure. Moustakas is one of the best all around 3b in MLB. If not for the occasional health issues, his track record might be more impressive.

 

Moustakas is probably a good guess for the ceiling of Devers.

 

He's probably about the 10th best 3B. That's fine. I still think Devers is better. At Devers' age, he was OPSing 805 in low A.

[oldtimer]

He's probably about the 10th best 3B. That's fine. I still think Devers is better. At Devers' age, he was OPSing 805 in low A.

Pablo didn't start tonight against a right handed pitcher. That should tell us that he is wearing out his welcome. Maybe it is time to get Devers to AAA and start the process of getting him up to the big club. It appears that might be a better bet than anyone we could get.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Royals have won 5 in a row. The AL is somewhat weak this year, meaning that the Royals might be able to stay in the race for at least the second wild card. I think there is a reasonable chance that Moustakas never becomes available.

 

Let's say the Royals do not become sellers at the deadline, is there anyone else besides Frazier? Let's forget Devers for now, and forget Peralta (not a serious alternative), and let's even write off Plouffe who wasn't playing well offensively or defensively for the A's. Is there anyone else besides the players I just mentioned?

 

Y.Escobar of the Angels (don't like it). Seager of the Mariners isn't having the best year, but he probably won't be traded. Nunez of the Giants (don't like it).

 

I would prefer Seager over Frazier but there is no evidence to suggest the Mariners are willing to trade Seager.

 

Other names: David Freese. Can Josh Harrison play 3b?

Edited June 17, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Jasonbay44]

The Royals have won 5 in a row. The AL is somewhat weak this year, meaning that the Royals might be able to stay in the race for at least the second wild card. I think there is a reasonable chance that Moustakas never becomes available.

 

Let's say the Royals do not become sellers at the deadline, is there anyone else besides Frazier? Let's forget Devers for now, and forget Peralta (not a serious alternative), and let's even write off Plouffe who wasn't playing well offensively or defensively for the A's. Is there anyone else besides the players I just mentioned?

 

Y.Escobar of the Angels (don't like it). Seager of the Mariners isn't having the best year, but he probably won't be traded. Nunez of the Giants (don't like it).

 

I would prefer Seager over Frazier but there is no evidence to suggest the Mariners are willing to trade Seager.

 

Other names: David Freese. Can Josh Harrison play 3b?

Josh Harrison can play almost any position. He's proven to be a solid 3B option. I don't think he'll come cheap though, he's a really good player who offers tons of versatility.

 

Seager just signed a 7 year 100M deal two years, I don't see DD trading for another expensive 3B and I think Mariners would want a decent amount for Seager.

 

Nunez is a horrible fielder and pretty meh. He's an upgrade but I don't care for him.

 

I think most realistic option is a Plouffe or Peralta, or someone of that level, or calling up Devers. I can't see them paying for these 3B, but they also can't afford to trot this trash out there every game. I'm not saying I want either of those mediocre guys but I just think its most realistic outcome.

[Spudboy]

The Royals have won 5 in a row. The AL is somewhat weak this year, meaning that the Royals might be able to stay in the race for at least the second wild card. I think there is a reasonable chance that Moustakas never becomes available.

 

Let's say the Royals do not become sellers at the deadline, is there anyone else besides Frazier? Let's forget Devers for now, and forget Peralta (not a serious alternative), and let's even write off Plouffe who wasn't playing well offensively or defensively for the A's. Is there anyone else besides the players I just mentioned?

 

Y.Escobar of the Angels (don't like it). Seager of the Mariners isn't having the best year, but he probably won't be traded. Nunez of the Giants (don't like it).

 

I would prefer Seager over Frazier but there is no evidence to suggest the Mariners are willing to trade Seager.

 

Other names: David Freese. Can Josh Harrison play 3b?

 

I have heard mention of Jed Lowrey.

[a700hitter]

I have heard mention of Jed Lowrey.

He has a good bat and glove if he can just stay on the field.

[Spudboy]

He has a good bat and glove if he can just stay on the field.

 

Yeah that guy has been a walking ( well sometimes, anyway ) MASH unit.

 

I used to like him and he has good pop for Fenway.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Royals have now won 6 in a row.

 

Lowrie has been so inconsistent. He had an excellent year in 2013, was not-so-good in 2014, was not-so-good in 2016. He is having a solid year this season thus far. I would rather have Frazier, but Lowrie definitely warrants consideration.

 

Too bad J.Reyes isn't hitting this year--the Mets will probably be sellers at the deadline and Reyes can handle third base defensively.

 

A pretty good article that sums up the situation:

 

Remember when Pablo Sandoval was good?

http://www.weei.com/blogs/rob-bradford/phillies-1-red-sox-0-pablo-sandoval-making-things-difficult

Edited June 17, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Great piece by Dave Cameron. He pretty much sums up the major problem facing Sandoval and why it might be unrealistic to think that Sandoval can turn it around.

 

Sandoval’s contact rates, both in and out of the zone, have sunk this year — you can ignore the 2016 marks on that graph, as he only hit seven times last year — and have led to Sandoval running a strikeout rate close to league average for the first time in his career. His overall 74% contact rate is eight percentage points below his career average. Some of that is just the fact that strikeouts have gone up league wide over the last few years, but most of it is Sandoval just swinging and missing with more frequency than he has before. And Pablo Sandoval, with a league average strikeout rate, is just not a good hitter.

 

Cameron's solution is to release Sandoval and to either bring up Devers or make a trade.

 

Back in May, I made the case for calling up Rafael Devers, though he went into a tailspin immediately after that post went up. But he’s bounced back in June, hitting .372/.413/.721 this month, and still looks like he could be a superior internal option if the team wanted a left-handed third baseman to split time with Rutledge. Dave Dombrowski said this week that the organization doesn’t feel Devers is quite ready yet, but some of that probably involves the team not yet making the decision that it’s time to cut Sandoval and give his roster spot to someone more useful.

 

They should be there, though. Sandoval looks like a below-replacement level player, and the Red Sox simply shouldn’t be wasting at-bats hoping he remembers how to make contact or figures out how to beat the shift. Simply put, the Pablo Sandoval experiment failed, and it’s not going to be any more successful by letting him get at-bats that could go to a better player. If they don’t think Devers is going to be ready this year, then you make a trade for someone who is, because the AL East is the most competitive division in baseball, and the Red Sox are throwing at-bats and innings away on a guy who probably isn’t a big leaguer anymore.

 

 

LINK:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/its-time-to-pull-the-plug-on-pablo-sandoval/

 

I highly respect Cameron. I think it is time to release Sandoval. I would try to trade for Frazier, while continuing to groom Devers in the minors. If Frazier doesn't get the job done, they can always promote Devers later in the season. It's time to take action.

 

Alternatively, I would call the A's about Lowrie. Lowrie has an OPS above .900 this year against right handed pitchers. The Red Sox could platoon Lowrie with Marrerro at 3b. Not only would I release Sandoval, but I would also get rid of Rutledge.

 

With Lowrie in the lineup:

Lowrie 3b

Pedroia 2b

Bogaerts SS

Betts RF

Moreland 1b

Ramirez DH

Benintendi LF

Vazquez C

Bradley CF

Edited June 17, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Maxbialystock]

Now on our 34th page of a thread dedicated to 3b. Hitting, a far more important topic, only has 32 pages.

 

Plus we keep repeating ourselves, and I'm as guilty as anyone. I despise Pablo precisely because he is lousy at bat and at 3b. But I also agree with Kimmi that the FO--meaning Farrell and DD--should probably keep him awhile longer because of the money, because he was pretty decent with the Giants, because he did finally lose some weight, and because he's still only 30 years old. Devers doing so well at Portland means help is just around the corner. And right now the Sox are just 1 game behind the Yankees and have the 3d best winning percentage in the AL.

 

So me, I say getting a rental or whatever is not yet the right move. Hell, I could live with Rutledge

[moonslav59]

We still have about 6 weeks to the deadline. By then, we'll know a little more about the Rutledge-Pablo situation and maybe Devers might be ":deemed ready" by that time as well.

 

I'm not for giving up much for any 3B rental.

[moonslav59]

Hell, I could live with Rutledge.

 

For a short term, yeah, but I don't think I could say that about a team entering the playoffs.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Rays acquired Plouffe. Of course, the A's had to throw in cash to make it happen. Like Peralta, Plouffe was never a real solution for the Red Sox's problems at 3b:

 

The Athletics designated Plouffe for assignment last week after he batted just .214/.276/.357 while striking out 29.1% of the time in 199 plate appearances this season. The 31-year-old also had a somewhat disappointing 2016 campaign with the Twins in which he hit a modest .260/.303/.420 while earning below-average marks in UZR and DRS for his defense. The Twins then outrighted him rather than taking him through the arbitration process. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

So, Plouffe can't hit or field. Awesome.