A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Kimmi]

No. Its 100% about results.

 

If Sandoval acted the way he did during a great season, fans would praise his attitude and call him a great clubhouse guy. But as it was after a bad season, he clearly must not care. If he tried hard and failed, would fans really love him? Matt Clement pitched himself into the ground for the Sox. Any love? John Lackey struggled heavily for two years in Boston, and all his intensity on the field was held against him by fans. Sure we all learned to love Lackey. Coincidentally when he started pitching better.

 

Sandoval's still the same guy with the same passions as he was in San Francisco.

 

Thank you.

[a700hitter]

I don't give a hoot about Pablo's attitude, but I will not accept that there is nothing that he can do about his weight. Eating himself out of baseball is on him, and it is something that was completely within his control. This isn't an injured knee or arm or other body part. This isn't a product of wear and tear from aging. He eats too much and got too fat to the point where he couldn't perform on the baseball field. Whether or not he feels bad about it means nothing to me. The fault lies with him. Period. The fates haven't intervened to give him a bad break. He gets full blame.

[moonslav59]

I don't give a hoot about Pablo's attitude, but I will not accept that there is nothing that he can do about his weight. Eating himself out of baseball is on him, and it is something that was completely within his control. This isn't an injured knee or arm or other body part. This isn't a product of wear and tear from aging. He eats too much and got too fat to the point where he couldn't perform on the baseball field. Whether or not he feels bad about it means nothing to me. The fault lies with him. Period. The fates haven't intervened to give him a bad break. He gets full blame.

 

I guess you don't believe that eating disorders are diseases. They are also diseases that can be cured.

 

Yeah, we can blame Pablo for not "getting help" earlier, if that's what floats your boat, but I'm not giving up on Pablo. He'll get a chance to show what he looks like first, and then to show if he can still play at or near the level he showed in SF (as a fat guy, I might add).

[a700hitter]

I guess you don't believe that eating disorders are diseases. They are also diseases that can be cured.

 

Yeah, we can blame Pablo for not "getting help" earlier, if that's what floats your boat, but I'm not giving up on Pablo. He'll get a chance to show what he looks like first, and then to show if he can still play at or near the level he showed in SF (as a fat guy, I might add).

I don't care if it is classified as a disease by the Shrink community. He should get full blame, just as he should if he was addicted to an opioid or if he was an alcoholic.

[moonslav59]

I don't care if it is classified as a disease by the Shrink community. He should get full blame, just as he should if he was addicted to an opioid or if he was an alcoholic.

 

I just don't get the obsession with assigning blame. If you feel the need to do so, I can understand why the buck stops with the man.

 

What matters to me, is where he's at right now, and if his head is in the right place. We're paying him mega bucks, so it's worth giving him a look & see this spring.

 

It's not like we have any great options at 3B right now anyways.

[a700hitter]

I just don't get the obsession with assigning blame. If you feel the need to do so, I can understand why the buck stops with the man.

 

What matters to me, is where he's at right now, and if his head is in the right place. We're paying him mega bucks, so it's worth giving him a look & see this spring.

 

It's not like we have any great options at 3B right now anyways.

I don't see the obsession to defend his attitude. I don't attack or care about his attitude. That is all that I am saying. I don't really care to assign blame, but I don't sit by and listen to lame excuses for problems. Pablo's problem is in his mirror. Edited November 27, 2016 by a700hitter

[moonslav59]

I don't see the obsession to defend his attitude. I don't attack or care about his attitude. That is all that I am saying. I don't really care to assign blame, but I don't sit by and listen to lame excuses for problems. Pablo's problem is in his mirror.

 

I've never defended his attitude or his weight issues.

 

I absolutely hated the signing from the first second onwards.

 

I'm not letting that hatred of the signing or his weight issues or attitude issues interfere with my opinion on what to do going forward. Releasing him at this point throws away a chance, however remote, of him being our best option at 3B next season. Travis Shaw is a huge gamble. Holt's failure at 3B was a major reason we signed Pablo in the first place.

 

Trading him and paying $30M or his $58M owed might not be a bad idea with the luxury tax increase likely not to be a much as expected, but even that might be a pipe dream.

 

It looks like we might be only $15M under the new luxury tax. Adding $4-6M to that is not going to net us a difference maker.

 

As much as it might suck, waiting it out on Pablo seems like our best chance at fixing the 3B issue, or maybe at least filling the LH'd platoon DH slot opposite Young.

 

I'm not holding my breath. I'm not counting on anything from Pablo. I've suggested numerous trades and signings to net us a 3Bman.

[a700hitter]

I've never defended his attitude or his weight issues.

 

And I wasn't addressing you in my post.

[moonslav59]

And I wasn't addressing you in my post.

 

Okay, no problem. When you countered my post using the word "obsession", I assumed you were responding about me and not just to me and others.

[notin]

I don't care if it is classified as a disease by the Shrink community. He should get full blame, just as he should if he was addicted to an opioid or if he was an alcoholic.

 

You know that many other countries treat drug addictions as diseases and health problems. The US is in the minority that decides these people are criminals who need to be blamed

[a700hitter]

You know that many other countries treat drug addictions as diseases and health problems. The US is in the minority that decides these people are criminals who need to be blamed

Of course it is a health problem, but it is a health problem brought about by voluntary actions. What is your point? Should I weep for this donut eating $90 million third baseman who is eating himself out of baseball? Count me out. His actions. His fault. No sympathy from me. It is a nice first world problem to have -- eating your way out of a $90 million job. My real opinion is that he is a big fat fool.

 

Edit: No one is talking about crimes. It is not a crime to be a fat slob in America, although the government would like to outlaw if is it could.

Edited November 27, 2016 by a700hitter

[notin]

Of course it is a health problem, but it is a health problem brought about by voluntary actions. What is your point? Should I weep for this donut eating $90 million third baseman who is eating himself out of baseball? Count me out. His actions. His fault. No sympathy from me. It is a nice first world problem to have -- eating your way out of a $90 million job. My real opinion is that he is a big fat fool.

 

Edit: No one is talking about crimes. It is not a crime to be a fat slob in America, although the government would like to outlaw it is it could.

 

Well if it is an "addiction," it's not necessarily voluntary. You mentioned opiods, which includes an extremely large number of addictive prescription drugs including Oxycintin and Fentanyl. Most people who are addicted to these drugs started out by getting them legitimately, yet the problem persists.

 

But in the US, we do like to blame people for their problems. Got breast cancer? We have charities. Got colon cancer? Same. Got lung cancer? Too bad. Your own ffault. Despite that everyone knows smoking isn't the only cause. But no one wants to help non-smoking cancer patients and risk helping smokers at the same time...

[notin]

Anyway, back to baseball.

 

My issue with Sandoval isn't his weight, which he has always had and surprisingly never been an issue before. My issue is that he was never very good to begin with and generated way too much excitement in a high profile small sample known as the World Series. ...

[moonslav59]

MLBTRs...

Red Sox center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr., right-hander Clay Buchholz, left-hander Drew Pomeranz, corner infielder Travis Shaw and catcher Blake Swihart could end up on the move this offseason if president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski tries to upgrade the team’s roster through trades, writes Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald. The soon-to-be 27-year-old Bradley is easily the most appealing member of the group, and his name came up in trade talks involving White Sox aces Chris Sale and Jose Quintana over the summer. Another member of the potentially rebuilding White Sox – closer David Robertson – could pique the Red Sox’s interest this offseason, suggests Mastrodonato, who wonders if Chicago would accept Swihart in return.

 

If the CWS do go into rebuild mode, I still think they match up very well with our biggest needs:

 

1) Quality set up guy (Robertson)

2) One year 3B bridge to Moncada/Devers (Frazier)

3) Ace upgrade (Quintana or Sale)

 

If Swihart is a match for Robertson, they may like 5 years of team control from Shaw for 1 year of Frazier, if we add 5 years of Hembree (out of options). That leaves what to give to get Quintana. I think they'll demand JBJ, but if we can sign Beltran, we can move Beni to CF. Add Moncadaa nd maybe Pomeranz or Buch, who they could flip for more prospects, and I think we'd be close to a deal.

 

1) Beni CF

2) Pedey 2B

3) Betts RF

4) Beltran LF/DH

5) HanRAm 1B/DH

6) Frazier 3B

7) Bogey 3B

8) Pablo DH/Young LF

9) Leon/Vaz C

Utility: Holt & Hernandez

 

SP: Quintana, Porcello, Price, ERod, Wright, POm or Buch

RP: Kimbrel, Robertson, Smith, Ross, Kelly, Barnes, Abad

[moonslav59]

Anyway, back to baseball.

 

My issue with Sandoval isn't his weight, which he has always had and surprisingly never been an issue before. My issue is that he was never very good to begin with and generated way too much excitement in a high profile small sample known as the World Series. ...

 

Plus, he was in decline before the signing, but if he can return to what he was in SF during the regular season, he'll still be grossly overpaid, but much better than what we have right now.

[a700hitter]

Well if it is an "addiction," it's not necessarily voluntary. You mentioned opiods, which includes an extremely large number of addictive prescription drugs including Oxycintin and Fentanyl. Most people who are addicted to these drugs started out by getting them legitimately, yet the problem persists.

 

But in the US, we do like to blame people for their problems. Got breast cancer? We have charities. Got colon cancer? Same. Got lung cancer? Too bad. Your own ffault. Despite that everyone knows smoking isn't the only cause. But no one wants to help non-smoking cancer patients and risk helping smokers at the same time...

You are going down a rabbit hole here and I am not following you there. With regard to how the U.S. approaches drug addiction as compared to other countries, I favor the way China handled it and currently the Philippines -- a bullet to the back of the head.

[oldtimer]

MLBTRs...

Red Sox center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr., right-hander Clay Buchholz, left-hander Drew Pomeranz, corner infielder Travis Shaw and catcher Blake Swihart could end up on the move this offseason if president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski tries to upgrade the team’s roster through trades, writes Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald. The soon-to-be 27-year-old Bradley is easily the most appealing member of the group, and his name came up in trade talks involving White Sox aces Chris Sale and Jose Quintana over the summer. Another member of the potentially rebuilding White Sox – closer David Robertson – could pique the Red Sox’s interest this offseason, suggests Mastrodonato, who wonders if Chicago would accept Swihart in return.

 

If the CWS do go into rebuild mode, I still think they match up very well with our biggest needs:

 

1) Quality set up guy (Robertson)

2) One year 3B bridge to Moncada/Devers (Frazier)

3) Ace upgrade (Quintana or Sale)

 

If Swihart is a match for Robertson, they may like 5 years of team control from Shaw for 1 year of Frazier, if we add 5 years of Hembree (out of options). That leaves what to give to get Quintana. I think they'll demand JBJ, but if we can sign Beltran, we can move Beni to CF. Add Moncadaa nd maybe Pomeranz or Buch, who they could flip for more prospects, and I think we'd be close to a deal.

 

1) Beni CF

2) Pedey 2B

3) Betts RF

4) Beltran LF/DH

5) HanRAm 1B/DH

6) Frazier 3B

7) Bogey 3B

8) Pablo DH/Young LF

9) Leon/Vaz C

Utility: Holt & Hernandez

 

SP: Quintana, Porcello, Price, ERod, Wright, POm or Buch

RP: Kimbrel, Robertson, Smith, Ross, Kelly, Barnes, Abad

 

You have been like a broken record on Sale, Robertson and Frazier. Give it a break and see what DD comes up with.

[moonslav59]

You are going down a rabbit hole here and I am not following you there. With regard to how the U.S. approaches drug addiction as compared to other countries, I favor the way China handled it and currently the Philippines -- a bullet to the back of the head.

 

Either a sick joke or a sick person.

[Kimmi]

I don't care if it is classified as a disease by the Shrink community. He should get full blame, just as he should if he was addicted to an opioid or if he was an alcoholic.

 

Is somebody with anorexia to be blamed for having that disease?

[Kimmi]

I don't see the obsession to defend his attitude. I don't attack or care about his attitude. That is all that I am saying. I don't really care to assign blame, but I don't sit by and listen to lame excuses for problems. Pablo's problem is in his mirror.

 

I defend players on my team when I think they are being wrongly criticized. People have attacked his attitude. I defended it. If you don't care about it, don't respond.

[Kimmi]

Anyway, back to baseball.

 

My issue with Sandoval isn't his weight, which he has always had and surprisingly never been an issue before. My issue is that he was never very good to begin with and generated way too much excitement in a high profile small sample known as the World Series. ...

 

FTR, I never liked the Sandoval contract. That said, he should have been an improvement over the production that we got from 3B the year before he was signed, even taking into account 'typical' decline.

 

Also FTR, there's no way in heck that I will ever believe that Cherington was wowed by his post season play. Cherington knows better. Lucchino OTOH....

[a700hitter]

Is somebody with anorexia to be blamed for having that disease?

He clearly doesn't have anorexia.

[a700hitter]

I defend players on my team when I think they are being wrongly criticized. People have attacked his attitude. I defended it. If you don't care about it, don't respond.

I will respond if I disagree with the premise that it matters.

[a700hitter]

Either a sick joke or a sick person.

It worked in China. Opioid addiction is no longer a problem there and the Philippines is taking the same approach.

[moonslav59]

It worked in China. Opioid addiction is no longer a problem there and the Philippines is taking the same approach.

 

Yeah, that proves killing people solves lots of problems.

 

Good one.

[a700hitter]

Yeah, that proves killing people solves lots of problems.

 

Good one.

So, you prefer the way that we deal with the issue in the U.S.A. as opposed to China or the Philippines? Edited November 28, 2016 by a700hitter

[moonslav59]

So, you prefer with the way that we deal with the issue in the U.S.A. as opposed to China or the Philippines?

 

Not even worthy of answering.

[a700hitter]

Not even worthy of answering.

And it shouldn't have been worth your commenting about initially.

[Hugh2]

Yes, China and the Philippines. I mean WOW, two shinning examples of how we should treat our fellow humans. Where is your humanity? where is your empathy? a bullet in the head????? really??? What if that was your son, daughter, wife, brother, sister, cousin, or loved one??? you sicko.

[moonslav59]

I'd like to stick to Red Sox baseball on this thread.

 

I was hopeful the luxury tax might go to $210M next year, but it looks like it might be closer to $200M. With our luxury budget looking to be around $185M, we'll have some tough choices to make.

 

Since Henry will be paying Castillo & Craig $22.2M this year "off the books" so to speak, I'm not sure how willing he will be to pay a %50 tax on anything over the new luxury limit. A few million will probably be okay, but I can't see us signing EE and a RP'er or two. We may not even want to sign Beltran and two good RP'ers.

 

We may look for a cheap 3B bridge and use Pablo and Young as a DH platoon, or we could sign a cheap platoon DH and hope one of our in house 3Bmen rise to the challenge. Either of these would allow us to spend on the pen.