A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[moonslav59]

Note: I'm not saying I want to do this, but could it happen?

 

Trade:JBJ, Pomeranz, Moncada, Shaw, Owens & Johnson

For: Quintana, Robertson & Frazier

 

Sign:Carlos Beltran & Uehara

 

Take Buch's option & let Hanigan go

 

Here's what we'd be looking at:

 

1) Bogaerts SS

2) Pedroia 2B

3) Betts RF

4) Beltran DH/LF

5) Ramirez 1B

6) Frazier 3B

7) Benintendi CF

8) Young LF /Swihart DH

9) Leon/Vazquez C

 

SP: Quintana, Price, Porcello, ERod, Wright

RP: Kimbrel, Robertson, Uehara, Buchholz, Kelly, Ross, Smith/Barnes/Hembree

 

 

 

[Nick]

Note: I'm not saying I want to do this, but could it happen?

 

Trade:JBJ, Pomeranz, Moncada, Shaw, Owens & Johnson

For: Quintana, Robertson & Frazier

 

Sign:Carlos Beltran & Uehara

 

Take Buch's option & let Hanigan go

 

Here's what we'd be looking at:

 

1) Bogaerts SS

2) Pedroia 2B

3) Betts RF

4) Beltran DH/LF

5) Ramirez 1B

6) Frazier 3B

7) Benintendi CF

8) Young LF /Swihart DH

9) Leon/Vazquez C

 

SP: Quintana, Price, Porcello, ERod, Wright

RP: Kimbrel, Robertson, Uehara, Buchholz, Kelly, Ross, Smith/Barnes/Hembree

 

 

 

 

Can we get Q without trading away Moncada?

[moonslav59]

Can we get Q without trading away Moncada?

 

Maybe by adding Devers and Kopech.

[Dojji]

Can we get Q without trading away Moncada?

 

I'm still not even remotely convinced that Quintana is on the market in the first place. The White Sox are not in a classic sellers' position and they have no real reason to trade him -- their offensive problems are hardly insurmountable, Quintana and Sale, plus a roughly average offense (not difficult) and a handful of bullpen improvements (routine offseason shopping list items might be all it takes) puts them on the bubble as a possible playoff team.

 

If the White Sox sign Encarnacion and Janssen or Chapman, that might be all it takes to see them to the playoffs next year. The White Sox are not a small market team, they can throw money around, and they're a little well-thrown money from taking their team to the playoffs. Why sell in that environment? I don't see the White Sox making any trades to downgrade their starting staff when they really aren't that far from playoff contention.

 

I know if I was a Chisox fan, and I thought my team was about to trade a 27 year old ace who's under a cost-controlled contract for the next 4 years -- the single rarest and most precious commodity in all of baseball -- for a grab bag of prospects, I would be PISSED. And so would you.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Dojji

[moonslav59]

I'm still not even remotely convinced that Quintana is on the market in the first place. The White Sox are not in a classic sellers' position and they have no real reason to trade him -- their offensive problems are hardly insurmountable, Quintana and Sale, plus a roughly average offense (not difficult) and a handful of bullpen improvements (routine offseason shopping list items might be all it takes) puts them on the bubble as a possible playoff team.

 

If the White Sox sign Encarnacion and Janssen or Chapman, that might be all it takes to see them to the playoffs next year. The White Sox are not a small market team, they can throw money around, and they're a little well-thrown money from taking their team to the playoffs. Why sell in that environment? I don't see the White Sox making any trades to downgrade their starting staff when they really aren't that far from playoff contention.

 

I know if I was a Chisox fan, and I thought my team was about to trade a 27 year old ace who's under a cost-controlled contract for the next 4 years -- the single rarest and most precious commodity in all of baseball -- for a grab bag of prospects, I would be PISSED. And so would you.

 

JBJ is one of the most sought after players in MLB. Pomeranz shows a lot of promise. Moncada is MLB's number one prospect. I'd hardly call that a "grab bag".

 

I agree on the idea of Q maybe not even being available, and I doubt I'd want to give the same package for one year less of Sale (if he's even available).

[Dojji]

I think we need to temporarily forget that there was ever a baseball team named Chicago White Sox. Seriously, I do not understand why the Quintana/Sale meme even exists. There was one rumor back in May that Sale wasn't happy with the team over the Drake LaRoche thing, that's the only smoke there's ever been. We need to let this train of thought die.

[Bellhorn04]

JBJ is one of the most sought after players in MLB. Pomeranz shows a lot of promise. Moncada is MLB's number one prospect. I'd hardly call that a "grab bag".

 

Agree, but I think 'Shaw, Owens and Johnson' is the grab bag, or garbage bag part.

[moonslav59]

I think we need to temporarily forget that there was ever a baseball team named Chicago White Sox. Seriously, I do not understand why the Quintana/Sale meme even exists. There was one rumor back in May that Sale wasn't happy with the team over the Drake LaRoche thing, that's the only smoke there's ever been. We need to let this train of thought die.

 

There were several rumors about trading sale at the deadline.

[moonslav59]

Agree, but I think 'Shaw, Owens and Johnson' is the grab bag, or garbage bag part.

 

That was the part that was designed to get us Frazier. JBJ, Pom and Moncada would, in theory, bring us Q and Robertson.

[mvp 78]

There were several rumors about trading sale at the deadline.

 

Also had a lot to do with Sale's s***** attitude.

[moonslav59]

Also had a lot to do with Sale's s***** attitude.

 

Yeah, but winning can cure that.

[Emp9]

I think we need to temporarily forget that there was ever a baseball team named Chicago White Sox. Seriously, I do not understand why the Quintana/Sale meme even exists. There was one rumor back in May that Sale wasn't happy with the team over the Drake LaRoche thing, that's the only smoke there's ever been. We need to let this train of thought die.

 

Hmm.. but then there was him cutting-up all those team jerseys a few months later, proving once again he wasn't happy with his team... TalkSox hasn't been the only place where Sale trade rumors exist.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Hmm.. but then there was him cutting-up all those team jerseys a few months later, proving once again he wasn't happy with his team... TalkSox hasn't been the only place where Sale trade rumors exist.

 

There were rumors out there, but it seemed that everyone who reported them used words like "ridiculous, absurd & astronomical" when describing White Sox asking price. In other words, he really wasn't available.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Eddy Ballgame

[moonslav59]

There were rumors out there, but it seemed that everyone who reported them used words like "ridiculous, absurd & astronomical" when describing White Sox asking price. In other words, he really wasn't available.

 

Yeah, well I thought what we gave the Padres for Kimbrel & Pomeranz was ridiculous, absurd and astronomical.

 

Oops, I promised I wouldn't bring that up again. My bad!

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, well I thought what we gave the Padres for Kimbrel & Pomeranz was ridiculous, absurd and astronomical.

 

Oops, I promised I wouldn't bring that up again. My bad!

 

Ha. What we gave up for Kimbrel was bad, but at least it didn't start with Betts or Bogaerts.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Yeah, well I thought what we gave the Padres for Kimbrel & Pomeranz was ridiculous, absurd and astronomical.

 

Oops, I promised I wouldn't bring that up again. My bad!

 

No worries, it's clearly Todd Frazier, Dave Robertson & Jose Quintana trade proposal month for you. Try not to end every one with "Owens & Johnson," though. Mix it up a little.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Eddy Ballgame

[moonslav59]

... Try not to end everyone one with "Owens & Johnson," though. Mix it up a little.

 

They still have value, but I'm done with both of them.

[moonslav59]

Ha. What we gave up for Kimbrel was bad, but at least it didn't start with Betts or Bogaerts.

 

Probably "absurd" is a alittle rash, I admit.

[harmony]

They still have value, but I'm done with both of them.

What is the trade value of lefthander Brian Johnson, who turns 26 in December after posting a 4.09 ERA (4.73 FIP) and 4.21 BB/9 despite a .284 BABIP in 15 starts this year at Triple A?

 

What is the trade value of 24-year-old lefthander Henry Owens, who posted a 3.53 ERA (4.48 FIP) and a concerning 5.30 BB/9 in 24 starts this year at Triple A?

 

Other teams might be done with the southpaws as well.

Edited October 26, 2016 by harmony

[sk7326]

What is the trade value of lefthander Brian Johnson, who turns 26 in December after posting a 4.09 ERA (4.73 FIP) and 4.21 BB/9 despite a .284 BABIP in 15 starts this year at Triple Ar?

 

What is the trade value of 24-year-old lefthander Henry Owens, who posted a 3.53 ERA (4.48 FIP) and a concerning 5.30 BB/9 in 24 starts this year at Triple A?

 

Other teams might be done with the southpaws as well.

 

both 25 and under, one with legitimate swing and miss stuff. A team will try to buy low - but their careers are not dead at all.

[moonslav59]

What is the trade value of lefthander Brian Johnson, who turns 26 in December after posting a 4.09 ERA (4.73 FIP) and 4.21 BB/9 despite a .284 BABIP in 15 starts this year at Triple A?

 

What is the trade value of 24-year-old lefthander Henry Owens, who posted a 3.53 ERA (4.48 FIP) and a concerning 5.30 BB/9 in 24 starts this year at Triple A?

 

Other teams might be done with the southpaws as well.

 

Yes, there are, but there are also teams that don't have much. Plus, it's not all about your last year's stats, especially with prospects.

[S5Dewey]

What is the trade value of lefthander Brian Johnson, who turns 26 in December after posting a 4.09 ERA (4.73 FIP) and 4.21 BB/9 despite a .284 BABIP in 15 starts this year at Triple A?

 

What is the trade value of 24-year-old lefthander Henry Owens, who posted a 3.53 ERA (4.48 FIP) and a concerning 5.30 BB/9 in 24 starts this year at Triple A?

 

Other teams might be done with the southpaws as well.

OK....

 

Q. What was the trade value of Andrew Miller when he was with the Marlins in 2010?

 

A. The Sox traded LHP Dustin Richardson for him. Richardson was 25 at the time with an ERA of 3.31 with a WHIP of just over 2.00 in 29 appearances. The Sox bought low on Miller, and Richardson has been out of baseball since 2010.

 

Both Johnson and Owens have issues that might make a team take a flyer on them. Johnson's problems are between his ears -he has good stuff but has anxiety issues - and Owens, like Miller at the time, has trouble finding the strike zone.

 

There is a market for these guys and I wouldn't trade either of them for a bag of balls, but they'd be good throw-ins to sweeten the pot to a team that wants to take a chance on them.

[S5Dewey]

In fact, as exasperating as Owens has been, I'm nowhere near giving up on him. He's one of those big, rangy left-handers who has a lot going on in his motion. Hence, there's a lot that can go wrong. He just needs to harness it, and if someone is going to be able to do it I'd rather it be us than someone else.

 

I feel the somewhat the same way about Johnson. Great stuff, but his emotional issues are holding him back. Could he be the next Zach Grinke?

 

I'm not 'married to' either one of those guys. They could go in a trade and I wouldn't object, but I wouldn't DFA them or anything stupid like that. (and I wasn't accusing anyone of wanting to DFA them... I'm just sayin'.)

[moonslav59]

In fact, as exasperating as Owens has been, I'm nowhere near giving up on him. He's one of those big, rangy left-handers who has a lot going on in his motion. Hence, there's a lot that can go wrong. He just needs to harness it, and if someone is going to be able to do it I'd rather it be us than someone else.

 

I feel the somewhat the same way about Johnson. Great stuff, but his emotional issues are holding him back. Could he be the next Zach Grinke?

 

I'm not 'married to' either one of those guys. They could go in a trade and I wouldn't object, but I wouldn't DFA them or anything stupid like that. (and I wasn't accusing anyone of wanting to DFA them... I'm just sayin'.)

 

I think they both have value.

 

Maybe holding onto them longer may increase it.

[Nick]

No trade talk......lets' just sign EE and call it a day....we lose what? 27th pick?

[moonslav59]

No trade talk......lets' just sign EE and call it a day....we lose what? 27th pick?

 

So, you're okay with our pen that sucked most of 2016 and is losing Ziegler, Koji and Taz?

[Nick]

So, you're okay with our pen that sucked most of 2016 and is losing Ziegler, Koji and Taz?

 

come on Moon....we can fix our pen without declaring national disaster.....

 

Aren't you the one that suggested no top of the line closer would come to the Sox with Kimbrel already on board?

[moonslav59]

come on Moon....we can fix our pen without declaring national disaster.....

 

Aren't you the one that suggested no top of the line closer would come to the Sox with Kimbrel already on board?

 

I thought your statement that I responded to meant get EE and nothing else.

 

We may not need an elite closer or something major, but we need enough to not really say "just sign EE and call it day." That's all I meant.

[Nick]

Projected Arbitration Numbers per MLBtraderumors

 

Red Sox (11)

 

Fernando Abad (5.073) – $2.0MM

Robbie Ross Jr. (4.100) – $1.8MM

Joe Kelly (4.029) – $2.6MM

Drew Pomeranz (4.013) – $4.7MM

Josh Rutledge (3.090) – $1.0MM

Brock Holt (3.052) – $1.7MM

Xander Bogaerts (3.042) – $5.7MM

Bryan Holaday (3.025) – $900K

Brandon Workman (3.018) – $600K

Jackie Bradley Jr. (2.150) – $3.3MM

Sandy Leon (2.149) – $1.3MM

 

jake arietta up to $16.8M in his final arbitration year....he'll be expensive next winter.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Projected Arbitration Numbers per MLBtraderumors

 

Red Sox (11)

 

Fernando Abad (5.073) – $2.0MM

Robbie Ross Jr. (4.100) – $1.8MM

Joe Kelly (4.029) – $2.6MM

Drew Pomeranz (4.013) – $4.7MM

Josh Rutledge (3.090) – $1.0MM

Brock Holt (3.052) – $1.7MM

Xander Bogaerts (3.042) – $5.7MM

Bryan Holaday (3.025) – $900K

Brandon Workman (3.018) – $600K

Jackie Bradley Jr. (2.150) – $3.3MM

Sandy Leon (2.149) – $1.3MM

 

jake arietta up to $16.8M in his final arbitration year....he'll be expensive next winter.

 

Abad's out of options. I think he'll be gone.