8/2 @ Mariners

[mvp 78]

That's a fair point, but the more often you get relievers up to warm up, the more you risk 'overuse'.

 

Price was cruising until the 8th inning. He was only at 89 pitches. There was no reason to have someone warming up to start the inning, 'just in case'. There was no indication whatsoever that Price wouldn't be able to get through that inning.

 

Now I agree that he should have gotten someone up after the single following the HR, and he could have used any number of stall tactics to get the reliever ready, but that inning did unfold very, very quickly.

 

I'm worried about overusing pitchers like Taz and Uehara who have been run into the ground before, not all the other flotsam and jetsam in the bullpen. At 90 pitches, Price is probably down to like 70% effectiveness. At that point, is he more or less effective than say a 100% Noe Ramirez with the bases empty? That's up for discussion.

 

Honestly, you're on the a West Coast Road Trip TM and you need to steal the wins when you can. If that means being a little more aggressive with the bullpen, so be it.

[Slasher9]

Price never put the winning run on base, so under no circumstances is the Loss on him. It is either on Farrell or Abad.

 

so you are saying Farrell should have left Price in?

[a700hitter]

so you are saying Farrell should have left Price in?

You must be a debating champion.

[oldtimer]

Does anyone know whether the team carries insurance to cover salary costs for periods when players are injured? Hanley is getting $22 million a year, so a period away from the team costs real money expenditure without return. Just an example as many players get injured over the period of a season, and some of them are not directly injured in game situations.

[Slasher9]

I'm worried about overusing pitchers like Taz and Uehara who have been run into the ground before, not all the other flotsam and jetsam in the bullpen. At 90 pitches, Price is probably down to like 70% effectiveness. At that point, is he more or less effective than say a 100% Noe Ramirez with the bases empty? That's up for discussion.

 

Honestly, you're on the a West Coast Road Trip TM and you need to steal the wins when you can. If that means being a little more aggressive with the bullpen, so be it.

 

Price in 8th inning: 3.31 ERA

thats his 4th best inning.

 

6th: 2.35

4th: 2.70

7th: 2.76

8th: 3.31

5th: 3.33

2nd: 3.44

3rd: 3.59

1st: 3.74

9th: 5.09

 

Batting Avg:

1st PA: .232

2nd: .250

3rd: .231

4th+: .226

 

so which one of these numbers have all of you sofa managers getting a relief pitcher up after the 7th inning????????

[a700hitter]

Price in 8th inning:

 

...

 

so which one of these numbers have all of you sofa managers getting a relief pitcher up after the 7th inning????????

The long Home Run by the Mendoza-line hitting Zunino.

[illinoisredsox]

so you are saying Farrell should have left Price in?

 

He has said Price should have started the 8th. Can't remember if it was after the first homer or after the bloop hit, but a700 was imploring Farrell to get the pen going in real time. There's only the master 20-20 hindsight guys who are now saying the pen should have been up before the 8th.

[a700hitter]

Someone should post a poll on whether Slasher's posts about last nights game would be the same if Porcello had been the pitcher instead of Price. LOL!

[SoxnCycles]

That's a fair point, but the more often you get relievers up to warm up, the more you risk 'overuse'.

 

Price was cruising until the 8th inning. He was only at 89 pitches. There was no reason to have someone warming up to start the inning, 'just in case'. There was no indication whatsoever that Price wouldn't be able to get through that inning.

 

Now I agree that he should have gotten someone up after the single following the HR, and he could have used any number of stall tactics to get the reliever ready, but that inning did unfold very, very quickly.

 

And, as we've learned, that's when pitchers pull pec muscles.

[SoxnCycles]

I sense some criticism of Farrell in this post. That is wrong, however, since John Farrell is perfect and should not be criticized even when he clearly, absolutely and undeniably f***ed up.

 

Replace Farrell with "Price" and I bet that sounds just as f***ing stupid to you as your statement does to me.

[illinoisredsox]

Does anyone know whether the team carries insurance to cover salary costs for periods when players are injured? Hanley is getting $22 million a year, so a period away from the team costs real money expenditure without return. Just an example as many players get injured over the period of a season, and some of them are not directly injured in game situations.

 

Doubt it; salary is a sunk cost and players are paid whether they play in a game or not.

[Slasher9]

Someone should post a poll on whether Slasher's posts about last nights game would be the same if Porcello had been the pitcher instead of Price. LOL!

 

would you be blaming Farrell? then my posts in defense of Farrell (or any manager) would be the same. the numbers are right there. i posted them a few posts ago. with those numbers you would rather take the ball out of Price's hand after the HR? or let your low pitch count starter pitch? he wasnt laboring in the previous innings so i find it hard to believe his tank was empty. he threw 10 pitches in the 6th. and 10 pitches in the 7th. he was pounding the zone and not walking anyone. he gave up 3 hits over 7 innings. for the manager to give Price the benefit of the doubt in the 8th inning with less than 90 pitches thrown as opposed to putting in a RPer is not blasphemous. nor is it wrong. he threw 9 pitches in the 8th inning. and gave up 4 hits rather quickly. after which batter are you taking out David Price (with the numbers i posted) in place of abad/barnes/whomever? good for you. that still doesnt make this Farrell's fault. if he yanks Price after the bomb and barnes/abad spits the bit then Farrell is crucified for a quick hook (and that would be rightly so IMO).

[mvp 78]

Price in 8th inning: 3.31 ERA

thats his 4th best inning.

 

6th: 2.35

4th: 2.70

7th: 2.76

8th: 3.31

5th: 3.33

2nd: 3.44

3rd: 3.59

1st: 3.74

9th: 5.09

 

Batting Avg:

1st PA: .232

2nd: .250

3rd: .231

4th+: .226

 

so which one of these numbers have all of you sofa managers getting a relief pitcher up after the 7th inning????????

 

Small sample size. You can throw out the 8th and 9th inning stats.

[Maxbialystock]

Two initial points: 1) I didn't stay up and watch the end last night; 2) reading this thread, I was pretty convinced Farrell really did blow it this time.

 

Then I looked at the summary of the 8th inning, which I recap for one and all: Zunino homers. Martin singles on a soft fly ball to center (note word "soft"). Sardinas singles on a sharp ground ball to right (note words ground ball). Coaching visit to mound (after 3 batters in the 8th). Heredia singles on soft line drive to right, Martin scores, Sardinas to 2B. Score now 4-2 Sox, no one out. Coaching visit--Barnes in for Price. Barnes strikes Smith out. Another coaching visit, Abad replaces Barnes. Cano homers for 3 runs, Seattle now up, 5-4. Abad gets next two out on fly to CF and grounder to 1B. In the 9th, Bradley K's, Shaw walks, and Leon and Benintendi (the anointed one) strike out.

 

From the above I think Farrell's decisions were very defensible. He sent Price out for the 8th because of the 89 pitches and a good track record in 8th innings, which is the same reason for not warming up the bullpen right away. Moreover, Tazawa and Kimbrel. presumably his two best, pitched the night before.

 

But my real point is that Barnes went into the game with the score 4-2 and immediately struck the batter out. At that point Farrell and the bullpen had re-established control of the game. All was far from lost at that point even though no one had warmed up before the bottom of the 8th began. I might also note that, except for the dinger, Price was not hit hard in the 8th--soft fly, grounder, and soft liner.

 

If there was a mistake, it was bringing Abad in for Barnes, but Barnes would have been a righty facing one of the best lefty hitters in the AL, Cano, and Abad, a lefty, was not only available but apparently had a good record against Cano. He even got 2 strikes on him. But Abad threw a fat pitch to one of the best hitters in the game--kind of like Ortiz.

 

When I go back and look at the complaints in the thread about Farrell's rank stupidity, no one mentions that Barnes actually got into the game with the score 4-2, men on first and second, and struck out the first batter he faced. To me that's a pretty big omission.

[a700hitter]

 

 

When I go back and look at the complaints in the thread about Farrell's rank stupidity, no one mentions that Barnes actually got into the game with the score 4-2, men on first and second, and ...

At that point the Mariners were another base runner and 2 productive outs away from tying the game when he handed Barnes the ball.

[Slasher9]

Small sample size. You can throw out the 8th and 9th inning stats.

granted the 9th inning only equates to 2 full games. but the 8th is almost equivalent to 8 full games. how much sample size do you want?

whats the over/under on 8th/9th IP stats SSS for starters in this day and age of baseball???

what about the 4th+ BA? too SSS as well?

again...Farrell didnt lose this game. Price did. with a bit of help from abad.

[Slasher9]

also...lets throw out any IP that price gave up runs this season. too sss. this way he has a 0.00 ERA.

[a700hitter]

would you be blaming Farrell? then my posts in defense of Farrell (or any manager) would be the same. the numbers are right there. i posted them a few posts ago. with those numbers you would rather take the ball out of Price's hand after the HR? or let your low pitch count starter pitch? he wasnt laboring in the previous innings so i find it hard to believe his tank was empty. he threw 10 pitches in the 6th. and 10 pitches in the 7th. he was pounding the zone and not walking anyone. he gave up 3 hits over 7 innings. for the manager to give Price the benefit of the doubt in the 8th inning with less than 90 pitches thrown as opposed to putting in a RPer is not blasphemous. nor is it wrong. he threw 9 pitches in the 8th inning. and gave up 4 hits rather quickly. after which batter are you taking out David Price (with the numbers i posted) in place of abad/barnes/whomever? good for you. that still doesnt make this Farrell's fault. if he yanks Price after the bomb and barnes/abad spits the bit then Farrell is crucified for a quick hook (and that would be rightly so IMO).

I can assure you that I would still be criticizing Farrell if one of our other pitchers pitched last night's game, but you are an avowed Price hater, and if another pitcher pitched last night's game, you might not have blamed Farrell, but I don't think you would have hung the loss on a starter other than Price. Hanging the loss on Price Is ludicrous since he wasn't in the game to face the winning run. The loss gets hung on Abad for giving up the the 3 run dinger or Farrell for bad managing.

[Slasher9]

I can assure you that I would still be criticizing Farrell if one of our other pitchers pitched last night's game, but you are an avowed Price hater, and if another pitcher pitched last night's game, you might not have blamed Farrell, but I don't think you would have hung the loss on a starter other than Price. Hanging the loss on Price Is ludicrous since he wasn't in the game to face the winning run. The loss gets hung on Abad for giving up the the 3 run dinger or Farrell for bad managing.

 

Fair enough. I can agree to blame abad.

[User Name]

Replace Farrell with "Price" and I bet that sounds just as f***ing stupid to you as your statement does to me.

 

"f***ing stupid" is your realm of expertise, so I will defer to you on that one.