Lineup Discussions

[southpaw777]

Id rather see Moncada finish the minor league season and go to fall ball and play 3b. He needs as many reps as he can get. There will be plenty of time next year for Moncada. Im betting that they will be very protective of him and will not be as aggressive as they were with Benni...

[moonslav59]

Moncada could come up right now and probably hit RHP from the left side of the plate well, he's close to ready. However, he'd be a black hole from the right side as he obviously needs more work over there.

 

He may or may not see time in September, but I think some time in the AFL is possible as well to give him more reps at 3B.

 

While I do think Moncada might be a better choice vs RHPs than some current Sox players, I'm not sure I'd call him a "black hole" vs LHPs. The sample sizes are puny. Even the puny sample sizes do not indicate a black hole description.

 

Year ... vs RHPs/vs LHPs

2016 AA 1.003/.710 (133/35 ABs)

2016 A+ .971/.797 (165/63 ABs)

2015 A .753/.951 (206/100 ABs)

 

Moncada has only had about 200 ABs vs LHPs. I figure his overall farm OPS vs lefties is about .850. Even if you take his .710 low, I'm not sure that's a "black hole".

 

There has been some wide differentials, but that's more out of how great he's been vs RHPs this year than being bad vs lefties.

 

[southpaw777]

While I do think Moncada might be a better choice vs RHPs than some current Sox players, I'm not sure I'd call him a "black hole" vs LHPs. The sample sizes are puny. Even the puny sample sizes do not indicate a black hole description.

 

Year ... vs RHPs/vs LHPs

2016 AA 1.003/.710 (133/35 ABs)

2016 A+ .971/.797 (165/63 ABs)

2015 A .753/.951 (206/100 ABs)

 

Moncada has only had about 200 ABs vs LHPs. I figure his overall farm OPS vs lefties is about .850. Even if you take his .710 low, I'm not sure that's a "black hole".

 

There has been some wide differentials, but that's more out of how great he's been vs RHPs this year than being bad vs lefties.

 

 

He has been having issues as a RHH... Thats what the reports say. Hes needs more work. Moncada seems more natural as a LHH

[moonslav59]

Moncada has not seen MLB pitching.

 

Who is to say he will hit like Benintendi?

 

What if he comes up and hits more like Castillo?

 

That would be great!

 

Castillo was called up late in 2014 and had a .928 OPS.

[moonslav59]

He has been having issues as a RHH... Thats what the reports say. Hes needs more work. Moncada seems more natural as a LHH

 

I'm not saying he's not better vs LHPs, but the AA sample size is 35 ABs and his OPS is still .710.

 

I agreed, he'd be better used vs RHPs and as a PR'er (on another post).

[Hugh2]

It's the stats plus the scouting, you can really see the difference in his swing from the right side of the plate. The consensus is from those who have been scouting him is that he needs work against LHP and he would really struggle at the MLB level.

 

Now, long term this is nothing to worry about, it's not like he's OPS in the .500 over there and he's very age advanced. I'd look at it more as him being way ahead of the curve from left side than him being behind from the right side.

[moonslav59]

It's the stats plus the scouting, you can really see the difference in his swing from the right side of the plate. The consensus is from those who have been scouting him is that he needs work against LHP and he would really struggle at the MLB level.

 

Now, long term this is nothing to worry about, it's not like he's OPS in the .500 over there and he's very age advanced. I'd look at it more as him being way ahead of the curve from left side than him being behind from the right side.

 

I'm not one to doubt the scouts, and he certainly could struggle a lot vs LHPs, but I'm just not sure if a "black hole" is a proper projection.

 

I have said from the start, that he may only end up being used as a PR'er, PH'er vs RHPs and maybe a couple looks in the field in certain situations. Even a platoon might be pushing it, but if Shaw/Hill keeps struggling, then who knows...

 

[oldtimer]

I'm not one to doubt the scouts, and he certainly could struggle a lot vs LHPs, but I'm just not sure if a "black hole" is a proper projection.

 

I have said from the start, that he may only end up being used as a PR'er, PH'er vs RHPs and maybe a couple looks in the field in certain situations. Even a platoon might be pushing it, but if Shaw/Hill keeps struggling, then who knows...

 

 

I wonder who we are going to play at 3rd base that is going to look all that good. Is anyone suggesting Hill? Shaw's performance last night is a reminder that his hitting is far from polished. JF seems very reluctant to play Hernandez. Holt could do it but he is either a starter or depth in the outfield. We shouldn't be comparing Moncada against some ideal 3rd baseman but against the alternatives we can field. This is still a pennant race (just barely) so action is needed to right the ship.

[moonslav59]

I wonder who we are going to play at 3rd base that is going to look all that good. Is anyone suggesting Hill? Shaw's performance last night is a reminder that his hitting is far from polished. JF seems very reluctant to play Hernandez. Holt could do it but he is either a starter or depth in the outfield. We shouldn't be comparing Moncada against some ideal 3rd baseman but against the alternatives we can field. This is still a pennant race (just barely) so action is needed to right the ship.

 

I'm not sure why Hernandez hasn't been given longer looks. I've always liked this kid, and I can't see how he'd be any worse than what our 3B tandem has done over the last 5-6 weeks.

[sk7326]

While I do think Moncada might be a better choice vs RHPs than some current Sox players, I'm not sure I'd call him a "black hole" vs LHPs. The sample sizes are puny. Even the puny sample sizes do not indicate a black hole description.

 

Year ... vs RHPs/vs LHPs

2016 AA 1.003/.710 (133/35 ABs)

2016 A+ .971/.797 (165/63 ABs)

2015 A .753/.951 (206/100 ABs)

 

Moncada has only had about 200 ABs vs LHPs. I figure his overall farm OPS vs lefties is about .850. Even if you take his .710 low, I'm not sure that's a "black hole".

 

There has been some wide differentials, but that's more out of how great he's been vs RHPs this year than being bad vs lefties.

 

 

Moncada has also struck out in 30% of his plate appearances in Portland. I suspect if you want a stat that is what is keeping him from being a serious option for the rest of this season (and maybe not even opening day 2017). I think there is a good chance he gets added as a Quintin Berry-Dave Roberts pinch runner though.

 

His numbers at AA were better than Benintendi - but the other indicators are that a lot of that has been done with athletic superiority and not necessarily craft.

[moonslav59]

Moncada has also struck out in 30% of his plate appearances in Portland. I suspect if you want a stat that is what is keeping him from being a serious option for the rest of this season (and maybe not even opening day 2017). I think there is a good chance he gets added as a Quintin Berry-Dave Roberts pinch runner though.

 

His numbers at AA were better than Benintendi - but the other indicators are that a lot of that has been done with athletic superiority and not necessarily craft.

 

I'm one of the worst followers of the significance of the K both on offense or defense, so this means little to me. I'm not critical of those who use it, but I just don't value it as much as almost everyone else does.

[sk7326]

I'm one of the worst followers of the significance of the K both on offense or defense, so this means little to me. I'm not critical of those who use it, but I just don't value it as much as almost everyone else does.

 

at the major league level i tend to agree with you ... not making consistent contact against lower level guys is at least an indicator that he might not have been as "ready" as Benintendi to make a leap.

[moonslav59]

at the major league level i tend to agree with you ... not making consistent contact against lower level guys is at least an indicator that he might not have been as "ready" as Benintendi to make a leap.

 

But, most MLB players who K a lot but are still great, struck out a lot on the farm as well.

 

Moncada has incredible numbers on the farm, so to me, I could care less if he K's 60% of the time as long as he's getting on base 36% or more (38% or more in the minors).

 

His OPS is now higher in AA than single A. That is an indication that he is improving at a faster rate than traditional expectations and protocol. He's got 20 XBHs in just 172 ABs.

[bosoxmal]

Following is from a Prospect Report that still has him at 2B. Hasn't he been playing 3rd, down there? Anyway, this what the guy said,

 

"Few middle infielders can match Moncada's huge offensive ceiling, which earns him comparisons to Robinson Cano with more speed. He's a switch-hitter with outstanding bat speed who makes consistent hard contact from both sides of the plate. Moncada doesn't have much loft in his swing, which could cap his home run production at 15 annually, though he has the potential for 20-25 per season if he alters his approach."

 

Bring him up; what's there to lose? Shaw's SO bats are getting pretty tiresome!

[sk7326]

But, most MLB players who K a lot but are still great, struck out a lot on the farm as well.

 

Moncada has incredible numbers on the farm, so to me, I could care less if he K's 60% of the time as long as he's getting on base 36% or more (38% or more in the minors).

 

His OPS is now higher in AA than single A. That is an indication that he is improving at a faster rate than traditional expectations and protocol. He's got 20 XBHs in just 172 ABs.

 

Of course this is where scouting complements the numbers - if he is closing his eyes and hitting mistakes (because he could very well be the Patriots starting RB), while being completely unable to handle junk ... that alone is enough to slow-roll him.

 

He has been making outs at a little lower rate than Salem, but obviously plenty good. This is where the types of outs matter and how he is getting to his production and his failures. The data is very good - now the smart people have to look and make some conclusions.

[oldtimer]

Of course this is where scouting complements the numbers - if he is closing his eyes and hitting mistakes (because he could very well be the Patriots starting RB), while being completely unable to handle junk ... that alone is enough to slow-roll him.

 

He has been making outs at a little lower rate than Salem, but obviously plenty good. This is where the types of outs matter and how he is getting to his production and his failures. The data is very good - now the smart people have to look and make some conclusions.

 

We have had the worst production from the 3rd base position in the American League. Surely that alone is a good reason to try a young player with star potential. We as a team were awesome when we were getting production up and down the lineup. Today we got some of that back as Hanley and JBJ added their bats in a big way. Having a threat at 3rd would make our lineup that much more of a threat.

[Maxbialystock]

We have had the worst production from the 3rd base position in the American League. Surely that alone is a good reason to try a young player with star potential. We as a team were awesome when we were getting production up and down the lineup. Today we got some of that back as Hanley and JBJ added their bats in a big way. Having a threat at 3rd would make our lineup that much more of a threat.

 

I'm fine with whatever the FO decides because they made the call on Benintendi and were right. If they wait on Moncada, it will be for good reasons.

[sk7326]

We have had the worst production from the 3rd base position in the American League. Surely that alone is a good reason to try a young player with star potential. We as a team were awesome when we were getting production up and down the lineup. Today we got some of that back as Hanley and JBJ added their bats in a big way. Having a threat at 3rd would make our lineup that much more of a threat.

 

I would not be against it - but if the bat is afraid of breaking pitches, then he is no threat

[User Name]

I'm fine with whatever the FO decides because they made the call on Benintendi and were right. If they wait on Moncada, it will be for good reasons.

 

I 100% agree with this, which of course signifies that you are correct in this instance.

[moonslav59]

I 100% agree with this, which of course signifies that you are correct in this instance.

 

If we end up using Moncada at 3B for a significant amount of time, would you be happy with the amount of time Sox management gave him at 3B at AA?

 

I'm not trying to open up the can of worms, but now that the reality is upon us: Moncada is here, let's do a little hindsight evaluation.

[mvp 78]

I'm not trying to open up the can of worms.

 

Yes you are. You are again trying to make an argument about something you've been ranting about since coming here.

[User Name]

If we end up using Moncada at 3B for a significant amount of time, would you be happy with the amount of time Sox management gave him at 3B at AA?

 

I'm not trying to open up the can of worms, but now that the reality is upon us: Moncada is here, let's do a little hindsight evaluation.

 

Yes.

[User Name]

Yes you are. You are again trying to make an argument about something you've been ranting about since coming here.

 

Yes.

[sk7326]

If we end up using Moncada at 3B for a significant amount of time, would you be happy with the amount of time Sox management gave him at 3B at AA?

 

I'm not trying to open up the can of worms, but now that the reality is upon us: Moncada is here, let's do a little hindsight evaluation.

 

Very simple - this team is in a title chase. The management are not dummies (and I pray to the spaghetti monster for forgiveness for using the "appeal to authority"). I have to assume they are comfortable that the infield work they have done with Moncada will stick. He has played some already - and it is an easier position than the ones he has played so far in his career. Always bet on the athlete.

[moonslav59]

Yes you are. You are again trying to make an argument about something you've been ranting about since coming here.

 

I'm wondering if your minds have changed, or if you think the Sox made a mistake. I'm thinking it has to be one or the other. I'm curious what you think now. The past is past.

[moonslav59]

Very simple - this team is in a title chase. The management are not dummies (and I pray to the spaghetti monster for forgiveness for using the "appeal to authority"). I have to assume they are comfortable that the infield work they have done with Moncada will stick. He has played some already - and it is an easier position than the ones he has played so far in his career. Always bet on the athlete.

 

Do you think they gave him enough practice at 3B or not?

[sk7326]

Do you think they gave him enough practice at 3B or not?

 

I don't think it matters either way - nobody is stupid enough to have him take this sort of exam cold. So I am not going to look at the games number as an indicator of a whole lot.

Edited September 1, 2016 by sk7326

[Hugh2]

I'm wondering if your minds have changed, or if you think the Sox made a mistake. I'm thinking it has to be one or the other. I'm curious what you think now. The past is past.

 

What has changed? the Sox developed him at 2nd base. When they thought he was MLB ready they moved him to a position where he was needed more. This is exactly in line with what people like me and User have been saying.

 

The Sox did just that, and I think a lot of us agree with it. The Sox did not make a mistake, what mistake could they have made? when a similar situation occurs in the future they are going to go about it the same exact way.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Do you think they gave him enough practice at 3B or not?

 

The Red Sox have a development program that is supposedly as elaborate as it gets. Every off-season, they invite some prospects to their "boot camp," where they live in the city & spend a lot of time in the classroom learning about off the field stuff.

 

Mike Hazen said that they didn't want to put too much on Moncada's plate, so they kept him where he was comfortable. I'm pretty sure my 98 year old grandmother also figured out that Moncada might end up at 3rd when you did, but realized that the Sox have done an excellent job of developing position players over the years, so they obviously have their reasons for keeping Moncada at 2nd.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Eddy Ballgame

[User Name]

As I said in another thread: The system is in place for a reason, and the reason is that it works.