Lineup Discussions

[Kimmi]

I have no issues with those that disagree with my philosophy of the best up third. Someone once showed how the 5th hitter is most important, while someone else showed that statistically, juggling the line-up hardly matters.

 

In general, (there are exceptions to every guideline) I like the best OPS guy up 3rd, but he must have a decent SLG. The 4th hitter should have a good SLG (maybe better than 3, but certaonly not a better OBP and SLG). The highest OBP guys after the 3rd slot hitter is placed should, of course, go 1-2.

 

If I followed this philosophy to the letter, Papi would go 3rd and Betts 4th with Bogey/Pedey going 1-2, but then there's JBJ who could be viewed as close to our best over-all hitter as of the last 365 days, if you value OBP more than SLG. He's left out of the top 5. Hitting him 5th would make that other guy happy, I guess.

 

Last 365 days

OBP SLG

395 617 Ortiz

350 546 Betts

370 524 JBJ

374 468 Bogey

370 444 Pedey

351 445 Ramirez

327 467 Shaw

326 387 Holt

 

If you go Pedey, Bogey, Betts, Papi, JBJ, you'll really get the lefty-righty alternating crowd all upset.

 

I'd be fine with that line-up though. I might flip Papi?Betts vs RHPs.

 

I have not seen anything that has said that the 5th hitter is the most important. I've read that the 5th hitter is more important than the 3rd hitter, but not that he is the most important in the line up. The #1,2, and 4 hitters are the most important and should be filled first.

 

As far as upsetting the L-R crowd, line up changes make such little difference that a manager is probably better off doing the L-R thing to prohibit an opposing manager from using a LOOGY for two lefties in a row than he is making the minute changes that are so often suggested by posters.

[Kimmi]

So, put Papi up second?

 

Interesting to see JBJ up second tonight.

 

If Beni or Moncada can develop into an OBP machine, our roster construction of the future would be a lot easier.

 

Putting Papi second wouldn't be the craziest idea in the world.

 

Traditionally, the #2 hole has been the most misused spot in the line up. In recent years, we have seen managers do a better job with that spot. We are starting to see batters that would have been considered taboo not too long ago being put in the #2 spot.

[mvp 78]

He's an RBI guy who can't run the bases. Not sure 2nd is the best place for him.

[Wade Boggs]

I think you may get your wish with Betts hitting third. It could happen this year. But next year more then likely. I see Beni hitting leadoff with Betts dropping to the third spot. I also think Pedey will hit 5th behind Hanley. I don't know if I do it this year. No way would I ever hit JBJ second like last night. That was dumb.

[Kimmi]

He's an RBI guy who can't run the bases. Not sure 2nd is the best place for him.

 

I wouldn't put him 2nd. I'd leave him 4th because of his slugging.

 

I'm just saying that putting him 2nd isn't as crazy as it sounds. It just goes against conventional thinking.

[Kimmi]

I think you may get your wish with Betts hitting third. It could happen this year. But next year more then likely. I see Beni hitting leadoff with Betts dropping to the third spot. I also think Pedey will hit 5th behind Hanley. I don't know if I do it this year. No way would I ever hit JBJ second like last night. That was dumb.

 

I think we may see Betts hitting 3rd this year, maybe even as soon as this homestand. Farrell is toying with the idea, and the offense is in a bit of a funk. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn't put him 2nd. I'd leave him 4th because of his slugging.

 

I'm just saying that putting him 2nd isn't as crazy as it sounds. It just goes against conventional thinking.

 

If he was 10 years younger, maybe. Right now he's the slowest runner in the game.

[moonslav59]

I think you may get your wish with Betts hitting third. It could happen this year. But next year more then likely. I see Beni hitting leadoff with Betts dropping to the third spot. I also think Pedey will hit 5th behind Hanley. I don't know if I do it this year. No way would I ever hit JBJ second like last night. That was dumb.

 

I suggested Pedey hit 5th before the year began. He's not the runner he used to be, but my main reason was that I felt Bogey's power was slow in developing and that he'd make a better #2 guy than a #3. With Ortiz, Betts and JBJ all looking like better 3/4 guys, I didn't like Bogey there.

 

HanRam's power issues, including his shockingly low double total, screams for a demotion in the line-up, especially vs RHPs.

 

Papi's huge L-R splits over the last year and a half also indicate he should probably bat 3/4 vs RHP and 5/6 vs LHPs.

 

I still like Bogey second, although his BA has sunk over the last month or two, he puts the ball in play more than Pedey and may hit into less DPs.

 

I can see wanting Betts up third, but I want Betts, Ortiz and JBJ up in the first 4 slots for various reasons. That makes choosing someone difficult. I guess we could put Bogey there or Pedey. Maybe something like this would work:

Bogey

Betts

JBJ

Papi

Pedey

HanRam

 

or vs LHPs

Pedey

Bogey

Betts

JBJ

Hanram

Ortiz

 

It's not an easy choice made at any of our first 5 or 6 slots.

[moonslav59]

Can we all agree that Betts, Bogey, JBJ and Papi are our best 4 hitters and should be in the top 4 slots?

 

I get the love fest with Pedey batting second. His high OBP is very nice.

 

I get the argument that the 5 slot is more important than the 3 slot, though I strongly disagree.

 

Other than putting Papi 1 or 2, almost anything else is worthy of consideration.

 

I like HanRam 5th vs LHPs and Pedey 5th vs RHPs.

 

I like Pedey 6th vs LHPs and Shaw 6th vs RHPs.

 

[greenwell]

Can we all agree that Betts, Bogey, JBJ and Papi are our best 4 hitters and should be in the top 4 slots?

 

Except for Benintendi and Leon:)

 

It will be nice when everyone not named Mookie starts hitting again.

[S5Dewey]

Except for Benintendi and Leon:)

 

It will be nice when everyone not named Mookie starts hitting again.

 

This may be the most frustrating thing about this team. This team could be a WS contender in spite of our pitching - if everyone in the offense would start hitting at the same time.

[moonslav59]

HanRam can either play LF or alternate with the Rookie or sit the bench as far as I'm concerned....Hill should be playing 3rd....Leon should be catching as much as possible....Either way, we still need a new manager as well....With Buccholz in the pen...I probably would have pinchhit for Price earlier in the game(the inning he grounded out, just before LA got all their runs)

 

Hill at 3B?

YUCK!

 

[moonslav59]

This may be the most frustrating thing about this team. This team could be a WS contender in spite of our pitching - if everyone in the offense would start hitting at the same time.

 

Would that mean they all have their slumps at the same time too?

 

Maybe it's better if we mix and match.

[devildavid]

They should start hitting better when they return to Fenway.

[Jack Flap]

Hanley in LF? Bigger yuck.

[devildavid]

 

HanRam's power issues, including his shockingly low double total, screams for a demotion in the line-up, especially vs RHPs.

 

.

 

Unfortunately, my Hanley skepticism was somewhat justified. He is only a good hitter, at his best, but he really hasn't been a consistent force on offense. He is not close to the same hitter he was in his prime. Age and injuries seem to have hurt him, as I suspected they would.

[Maxbialystock]

Wrong thread. Edited August 8, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[Kimmi]

Can we all agree that Betts, Bogey, JBJ and Papi are our best 4 hitters and should be in the top 4 slots?

 

I can agree that they are our best 4 hitters, but I can't agree that they should necessarily be in the top 4 slots.

 

I actually think that our top 5 and maybe even top 6 are good enough to be interchanged without losing much.

[moonslav59]

I can agree that they are our best 4 hitters, but I can't agree that they should necessarily be in the top 4 slots.

 

I actually think that our top 5 and maybe even top 6 are good enough to be interchanged without losing much.

 

I can understand 5, if you believe 5 is more important than 3, but why 6?

 

Just the 15-20 PAs disparity with every slot down would be reason enough not to drop a top 4 hitter to 6th.

 

Now, if we had someone that was not a great (top 4 or 5 on the team) all around hitter, but he could get on base at over a .375 clip, then I can see the advantage of lengthening the line-up by batting that guy 1st or second (assuming he's not as slow as molasses).

 

I like to set up the line-up to try and score in the first inning. OBP is very important for batters 1-2-3 to increase the odds the 4th hitter gets up. That's why I want my 3 hitter to have both OBP and power, hence the "best all around" philosophy. If the 4th hitter can not get a big hit, just getting on base helps the chances greatly, especially if you have a 5 hitter like Pedey, HanRam or JBJ instead of Houston's 5 slot hitter Gattis.

 

I'm really hoping Beni or Moncada come on like Freddy Lynn and demand the lead off spot (by next year). That would create a wonderful problem on how to slot the 2 through 6 slots....

 

Beni/Moncada

Bogey

Betts

JBJ

Pedey

Moncada/Beni

HanRam/Young/Shaw

Shaw/HanRam/Young/Swihart

Leon/Vaz/Swi

 

Imagine if Papi came back for one more, afterall he says his feet feel great now!

 

1) Moncada or Beni

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) Ortiz / JBJ vs RHPs

5) JBJ/ Ortiz vs LHPs

6) Pedey

7) Beni/ Moncada/Shaw/Swihart

8) HanRam/Shaw/Swihart

9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

 

 

[oldtimer]

I can understand 5, if you believe 5 is more important than 3, but why 6?

 

Just the 15-20 PAs disparity with every slot down would be reason enough not to drop a top 4 hitter to 6th.

 

Now, if we had someone that was not a great (top 4 or 5 on the team) all around hitter, but he could get on base at over a .375 clip, then I can see the advantage of lengthening the line-up by batting that guy 1st or second (assuming he's not as slow as molasses).

 

I like to set up the line-up to try and score in the first inning. OBP is very important for batters 1-2-3 to increase the odds the 4th hitter gets up. That's why I want my 3 hitter to have both OBP and power, hence the "best all around" philosophy. If the 4th hitter can not get a big hit, just getting on base helps the chances greatly, especially if you have a 5 hitter like Pedey, HanRam or JBJ instead of Houston's 5 slot hitter Gattis.

 

I'm really hoping Beni or Moncada come on like Freddy Lynn and demand the lead off spot (by next year). That would create a wonderful problem on how to slot the 2 through 6 slots....

 

Beni/Moncada

Bogey

Betts

JBJ

Pedey

Moncada/Beni

HanRam/Young/Shaw

Shaw/HanRam/Young/Swihart

Leon/Vaz/Swi

 

Imagine if Papi came back for one more, afterall he says his feet feel great now!

 

1) Moncada or Beni

2) Bogey

3) Betts

4) Ortiz / JBJ vs RHPs

5) JBJ/ Ortiz vs LHPs

6) Pedey

7) Beni/ Moncada/Shaw/Swihart

8) HanRam/Shaw/Swihart

9) Leon/Vaz/Swi

 

 

 

I too would like to see speed in the lead off spot and Benintendi and Moncada both have that although they have a lot to prove regarding OB percentage. Still, it would be a big plus if they could. Moncada is a switch hitter as well but maybe his power would better translate to down in the order. Bogey hitting in second is also a good thought as his OBP is very good and his power average. Betts is good at 3rd or 4th. I don't expect Ortiz back as he was sore just after one try at 1st base.

 

DH is an interesting topic. We have a great hitter in Ortiz who is beyond playing in the field. There are a few others who use a player that is primarily confined to only DH but another view is to have players who are position capable. Then the DH can be rotated to take advantage or R/L matchups or subbed around to rest field players. We may be in that situation next season. I would rather do that than to take on a long term contract for an ageing player.It does give more flexibility on a 25 man roster.

 

 

My lineup for next year, based on hope that both Benintendi and Moncada make the jump into the majors is as follows:

 

1. Benintendi

2. Bogaerts

3. Moncada

4. Betts

5. Bradley

6. Pedroia/Hill

7. Shaw/Holt

8. Leon/Vazquez

9. Young/Swihart (DH)

 

That lineup assumes Hanley is gone and that we don't go out and get a long term free agent DH. That provides for 5 outfielders, 6 infielders, 2 catchers and a super utility man to play infield or outfield and Swihart who could be a backup catcher in a pinch. The guy I left out is Hernandez who could be called up to play short if Bogaerts got injured for an extended period.

 

The lineup provides speed up front, power in the 3, 4 and 5 slots, left/right alternating to make pitching moves difficult and solid hitting throughout. Of course wishing Benintendi and Moncada can make the grade is only hopeful, but wouldn't it be a blast.

[User Name]

Moncada has taken zero AB's at the MLB level, yet he'd be hitting third next year?

[a700hitter]

After reading some of the stat lists that get posted every day, I am starting to miss Jung's novels.

[User Name]

No you're not.

[bosoxmal]

The lead off hitter is considered one of the most likely players in the lineup to get on base. Mookye's is .350. The number 3 hitter is usually the best over all hitter in the lineup. That's is Betts. Mookey's "BA with men in scoring position/ is NEARLY .500!

[Nick]

Moncada has taken zero AB's at the MLB level, yet he'd be hitting third next year?

 

It's called going for drawing inside royal flush on the river after going all in and your opponent has 4 of a kind....

[Wade Boggs]

1. Benintendi

2. XB

3. Betts

4. HR

5. Pedey

6. Bradley Jr

7. Moncada

8. Shaw

9. Swihart

 

Want Moncada playing third . Shaw playing first . HR- DH.. would like to see Swihart get one more chance behind plate

 

I know the 2-5 is top heavy with R. But that is what I like.

[bosoxmal]

That could work right now, except we really don't know Moncada. From what I read, his power is awesome, but doesn't he strike out a lot? I wonder of we'll see him until spring training. Plug Encanaciana in that hole and, iin front of Betts, he'll see a lot of good pitches.

[Nick]

The lead off hitter is considered one of the most likely players in the lineup to get on base. Mookye's is .350. The number 3 hitter is usually the best over all hitter in the lineup. That's is Betts. Mookey's "BA with men in scoring position/ is NEARLY .500![/quote

 

I would like Mookie batting third because he's up there to swinging...not really looking to get on base via a walk. Lead-hitter should look to get on base and it makes no difference how. I also think Mookie is mentally tougher than Xander. I see frustrations from Xander whereas Mookie seems to let it roll off his back.

 

Xander is at his best when he's going to all fields, including right side. I think he'd be an ideal #2 hitter. He's also very patient and can draw walks.

 

I would love to see all the speed guys hit early and save one for the 9th spot.

[Wade Boggs]

I don't want to put to much pressure on Moncada right away. That is why I would drop him to the bottom part of the line-up for the moment.

[mvp 78]

After reading some of the stat lists that get posted every day, I am starting to miss Jung's novels.

 

Did you read those word for word? I generally just skimmed them hoping he'd get to the point.