How Bad Are the Umps?

[Michfan]

So you let them go. Good umpires are in pretty short supply. All the way down to the high school level where there aren't even enough umpires. Michigan HS for example is short about 1800 umps. So its pretty common to see some really bad ones, some because they are just bad and some because they are pr!cks.

But out of the thousands of umps you'd think MLB could find the best ones.

[Thunder]

Wait ... you don't want umps to have access to same stuff you and I do when following a game online?

 

It ruins the game. I like baseball as it is. Umpires are a part of the game. They always have been.

[Dojji]

Maybe we need publically available umpiring metrics. You know the number of borderline called strikes and borderline called balls, that kind of thing.

[sk7326]

It ruins the game. I like baseball as it is. Umpires are a part of the game. They always have been.

 

Who is firing any umps? I am advocating for helping them do the job which is the hardest (indeed, near impossible) to do. Umps doing a bad job calling pitches, and then getting surly when players (often correctly, but rudely) point this out, and then getting aggressive going after them ... (see West, Joe) ... that is part of baseball? Not the guys on the diamond who expect the rules to be administered properly?

[Slasher9]

Maybe we need publically available umpiring metrics. You know the number of borderline called strikes and borderline called balls, that kind of thing.

 

post #215.

[SoxnCycles]

post #215.

 

Not sure about this, but maybe Dojji meant individual ump stats, not umps in general.

 

You know MLB will never do that. They go out of their way to protect umps.

[Slasher9]

Not sure about this, but maybe Dojji meant individual ump stats, not umps in general.

 

You know MLB will never do that. They go out of their way to protect umps.

 

i saw that data too yesterday. let me see if i can hunt it down again.

[Slasher9]

i have serious issues with trying to post pictures on this forum. it either says "invalid" or "too large".

 

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/3906731/Strike_Zone_4.png?_ga=1.254423496.175556648.1464719581

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/1/27/5341676/how-well-do-umpires-call-balls-and-strikes

[SoxnCycles]

i saw that data too yesterday. let me see if i can hunt it down again.

 

If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see that.

 

I'd love to see the numbers from guys like West, Hernandez and Laz Diaz

[Slasher9]

If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see that.

 

I'd love to see the numbers from guys like West, Hernandez and Laz Diaz

 

check the first link in post 248.

Diaz is wrong 15.1%

 

Hernandez and WEst must be in the 13.5-14.9% wrong group.

here are the best: (the "best" is still wrong 12.6% of the time!!!)

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3906755/Strike_Zone_5.png?_ga=1.50041190.175556648.1464719581

[SoxnCycles]

check the first link in post 248.

Diaz is wrong 15.1%

 

Hernandez and WEst must be in the 13.5-14.9% wrong group.

here are the best: (the "best" is still wrong 12.6% of the time!!!)

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3906755/Strike_Zone_5.png?_ga=1.50041190.175556648.1464719581

 

Thanks!

[SoxnCycles]

check the first link in post 248.

Diaz is wrong 15.1%

 

Hernandez and WEst must be in the 13.5-14.9% wrong group.

here are the best: (the "best" is still wrong 12.6% of the time!!!)

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3906755/Strike_Zone_5.png?_ga=1.50041190.175556648.1464719581

 

I'm stunned that those three are not near the top of the list!

Diaz is wrong 15.1%

[Dojji]

I'm unpleasantly surprised by this. I actually thought the umps were more accurate than that. All the more reason to go to machines.

[sk7326]

I'm unpleasantly surprised by this. I actually thought the umps were more accurate than that. All the more reason to go to machines.

 

Given their job, this is probably the best you're going to get with humans. I mean they have to pay attention to the hitter too ... and technically, where ball is caught should not be where the "strike" is decided.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm unpleasantly surprised by this. I actually thought the umps were more accurate than that. All the more reason to go to machines.

 

Once machines call balls and strikes, which are at the heart of baseball, the nature of the game will change. You want to eliminate human imperfection, which I think is at the heart of all sports. Indeed, one of the time-honored traditions of baseball in particular is the expression, "kill the umpire." It's the basis of this thread because the OP felt our not-so-good pitchers were mistreated by the umps in Toronto. To me that's just part of the game and the endless fascination of baseball. I think the best use of technology is to back up and the teach/train umpires, not to replace them, or more importantly, to replace them in their central purpose in a baseball game, which in fact is calling balls and strikes.

[sk7326]

Once machines call balls and strikes, which are at the heart of baseball, the nature of the game will change. You want to eliminate human imperfection, which I think is at the heart of all sports. Indeed, one of the time-honored traditions of baseball in particular is the expression, "kill the umpire." It's the basis of this thread because the OP felt our not-so-good pitchers were mistreated by the umps in Toronto. To me that's just part of the game and the endless fascination of baseball. I think the best use of technology is to back up and the teach/train umpires, not to replace them, or more importantly, to replace them in their central purpose in a baseball game, which in fact is calling balls and strikes.

 

I thought the heart of the game were the players who throw the ball, hit the ball, and catch the ball.

[illinoisredsox]

I'm unpleasantly surprised by this. I actually thought the umps were more accurate than that. All the more reason to go to machines.

 

The thing is, there are misses and there are misses. A guy who calls a strike on a pitch that is 1/8 inch off the black or a ball on a pitch that nips the black by that much is "wrong", but more understandable than the guy who sometimes calls a pitch 3 inches outside a strike and then a pitch down the middle a ball (Donaldson on Saturday).

[Bellhorn04]

We already have replay and we already have overturned calls and the game isn't suffering. Balls and strikes is just the next step in the process.

[User Name]

[mvp 78]

 

You're only whining because they lost!!!!

[Maxbialystock]

I thought the heart of the game were the players who throw the ball, hit the ball, and catch the ball.

 

Indeed they are. But the umpires have been an integral part of baseball since the outset. Somebody has to call balls and strikes, and it can't be one of the players. And whoever has made those calls for something like 140 years has inevitably made mistakes. The game did not collapse because a pitcher or hitter disagreed--along with their fans--with the calls.

[mvp 78]

I remember being a young boy and getting the chance to sit back, eat a hot dog and root for my favorite umpire!

[Youk Of The Nation]

I remember being a young boy and getting the chance to sit back, eat a hot dog and root for my favorite umpire!

 

I think that's what the Swiss kids do.

[Thunder]

 

I used this as evidence like 9 pages ago.

[mvp 78]

I think that's what the Swiss kids do.

 

It's much more enjoyable for them. They win no matter what!

[Dojji]

Indeed they are. But the umpires have been an integral part of baseball since the outset.

 

So was chewing tobacco. That doesn't make it a good idea.

[sk7326]

Indeed they are. But the umpires have been an integral part of baseball since the outset. Somebody has to call balls and strikes, and it can't be one of the players. And whoever has made those calls for something like 140 years has inevitably made mistakes. The game did not collapse because a pitcher or hitter disagreed--along with their fans--with the calls.

 

This argument can also be used against cell phones. Or cars. Or airplanes.

 

Disagreement is not an issue here - because this is an objective call. The game survived because the umps did the best they could given the tools. The tools are much better. Denying umpires those tools - to preserve some arcane notion of baseball that predated integration - is batty.

[Dojji]

We used umpires in the early days of baseball because nothing but umpires could have gotten the job done. Now we have much better tools than human judgment for determining a strike zone that is in the end geometric and mathematic, not subjective and emotional. I will not miss the days of bad umpiring behind the plate when the league finally wakes up.

[SinceYaz]

I remember being a young boy and getting the chance to sit back, eat a hot dog and root for my favorite umpire!

 

Heheheh.... vg

[SinceYaz]

We used umpires in the early days of baseball because nothing but umpires could have gotten the job done. Now we have much better tools than human judgment for determining a strike zone that is in the end geometric and mathematic, not subjective and emotional. I will not miss the days of bad umpiring behind the plate when the league finally wakes up.

 

We know that things are done differently in the big leagues/pro leagues. Metal bats give way to wooden ones. It's a higher standard. Having a higher standard than "the human element" is definitely not out of the question when we expect it elsewhere. Time to go digital.

Edited June 1, 2016 by SinceYaz