Christian Vazquez

[User Name]

A lot of pitchers don't alter the mechanics and end up injuring their elbows again, even requiring TJS again (Looking at you, Daniel Hudson). But crappy mechanics aren't the only reason guys get TJS. There's a genetic propensity to UCL problems sometimes (some guys are born with weak UCL's, have problems healing from the repeated impact from baseball activities like Rocco Baldelli) hell, RA Dickey was born without a UCL!

[SCM33]

A lot of pitchers don't alter the mechanics and end up injuring their elbows again, even requiring TJS again (Looking at you, Daniel Hudson). But crappy mechanics aren't the only reason guys get TJS. There's a genetic propensity to UCL problems sometimes (some guys are born with weak UCL's, have problems healing from the repeated impact from baseball activities like Rocco Baldelli) hell, RA Dickey was born without a UCL!

 

I love you Rafael, but I think it has been proven guys who were in the Inverted W position, or Inverted L position, whichever you prefer (elbows same height as shoulders) at front foot ground strike are more likely to have TJS injury.

[User Name]

I love you Rafael, but I think it has been proven guys who were in the Inverted W position, or Inverted L position, whichever you prefer (elbows same height as shoulders) at front foot ground strike are more likely to have TJS injury.

 

Oh, absolutely. Don't forget I'm the "inverted W leads to TJ" guy. I've had this conversation before, and have even quoted Chris O'Leary (look him up) a lot on the site. That's the main reason why I did NOT want them to trade for Sale.

[Spudboy]

Oh, absolutely. Don't forget I'm the "inverted W leads to TJ" guy. I've had this conversation before, and have even quoted Chris O'Leary (look him up) a lot on the site. That's the main reason why I did NOT want them to trade for Sale.

 

Yeah after reading all that you posted on the subject of the Inverted W or whatever it's called, I have been leary of guys that have such mechanics.

 

I remember Sale being mentioned as a prime candidate for a ruptured UCL.

 

His elbow is a ticking bomb.

[mvp 78]

Yeah after reading all that you posted on the subject of the Inverted W or whatever it's called, I have been leary of guys that have such mechanics.

 

I remember Sale being mentioned as a prime candidate for a ruptured UCL.

 

His elbow is a ticking bomb.

 

The theory is that as long as the timing of his mechanics stays good, that he has a better chance to not have his elbow blow up.

[Kimmi]

Yeah after reading all that you posted on the subject of the Inverted W or whatever it's called, I have been leary of guys that have such mechanics.

 

I remember Sale being mentioned as a prime candidate for a ruptured UCL.

 

His elbow is a ticking bomb.

 

If Sale truly is a prime candidate for TJ surgery, then Dombrowski has no business trading our farm for him.

[moonslav59]

If Sale truly is a prime candidate for TJ surgery, then Dombrowski has no business trading our farm for him.

 

Sale is going to be fine.

[Fisk]

Almost every pitcher now is a candidate for TJ surgery.

[cp176]

Has he ever been injured? He has been at it for awhile now. His delivery does look a little strange for sure. If Price has a unique elbow, maybe Sale gets away with the delivery.

[Fisk]

Has he ever been injured? He has been at it for awhile now. His delivery does look a little strange for sure. If Price has a unique elbow, maybe Sale gets away with the delivery.

 

I don't think anyone can accurately pick who is going to end up with the surgery.

[Spudboy]

Almost every pitcher now is a candidate for TJ surgery.

 

No doubt. But some increase the odds with high stress mechanics. That is what I have heard and what I believe to be true. That is all that I am saying.

[cp176]

Has he ever been injured? I'm sure that poor mechanics can lead to all types of problems, but he appears to have been pretty healthy for the last 5 years or so. For some of these guys, I think that it is just the luck of the draw. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

[Fisk]

Has he ever been injured? I'm sure that poor mechanics can lead to all types of problems, but he appears to have been pretty healthy for the last 5 years or so. For some of these guys, I think that it is just the luck of the draw. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

 

It is a crapshoot, you just cross your fingers and wish for the best. The previous offseason did not want to go near Cueto thought his elbow was going to blow out, and thought Price was the much safer bet.

[cp176]

It is a crapshoot, you just cross your fingers and wish for the best. The previous offseason did not want to go near Cueto thought his elbow was going to blow out, and thought Price was the much safer bet.

 

It really seems like it is kind or a random thing. Did anyone ever suspect that Vazquez was going to have to have the surgery? Just the way it goes.

[Nick]

It really seems like it is kind or a random thing. Did anyone ever suspect that Vazquez was going to have to have the surgery? Just the way it goes.

 

I agree on randomness. With advances in medical field, teams ought to be able to monitor stress/strength/weakness level on pitcher's elbow. And if it was that easy to pick out surgery candidates medically, then guys with elbow issues would never be drafted or traded for. It has to be random.

[Kimmi]

It is a crapshoot, you just cross your fingers and wish for the best. The previous offseason did not want to go near Cueto thought his elbow was going to blow out, and thought Price was the much safer bet.

 

I'm not sure that it is a crapshoot or completely random. Honestly, I haven't looked into it, but it seems like certain pitchers, due to either body type or mechanics, would be more prone to this type of injury than others would be. Of course, that doesn't mean that somebody who fits the profile would necessarily need TJ surgery or vice versa, but I think that some would be at higher risk.

[Fisk]

I'm not sure that it is a crapshoot or completely random. Honestly, I haven't looked into it, but it seems like certain pitchers, due to either body type or mechanics, would be more prone to this type of injury than others would be. Of course, that doesn't mean that somebody who fits the profile would necessarily need TJ surgery or vice versa, but I think that some would be at higher risk.

 

That's why it's a crapshoot there is no way of telling. Pitchers with clean deliveries have had it, and pitchers with violent deliveries have avoided it, you just never know. Hopefully with the research being done they will be able to detect players that are prone to it and help them avoid it.

[notin]

Has he ever been injured? He has been at it for awhile now. His delivery does look a little strange for sure. If Price has a unique elbow, maybe Sale gets away with the delivery.

 

Sale had elbow issues mid-season in his first full season as a starter and was briefly moved to the role of closer. After a couple weeks he was returned to the rotation. ..

[cp176]

Sale had elbow issues mid-season in his first full season as a starter and was briefly moved to the role of closer. After a couple weeks he was returned to the rotation. ..

 

thanks for that - tells me that there has been no pattern of injury in his history. It also tells me that there is no more reason to worry about him having issues in the future than you would with any other player.

[Behindenemylines]

I agree on randomness. With advances in medical field, teams ought to be able to monitor stress/strength/weakness level on pitcher's elbow. And if it was that easy to pick out surgery candidates medically, then guys with elbow issues would never be drafted or traded for. It has to be random.

 

I guess its a surprise when non-pitchers have TJ surgery.

[User Name]

I don't think anyone can accurately pick who is going to end up with the surgery.

 

You'd be surprised at the success rate of some guys. Some of the mechanics gurus agree that Sale has a "hitch" in his windup that keeps his weird-ass mechanics from screwing with his elbow. Let's hope they are right.

[User Name]

That's why it's a crapshoot there is no way of telling. Pitchers with clean deliveries have had it, and pitchers with violent deliveries have avoided it, you just never know. Hopefully with the research being done they will be able to detect players that are prone to it and help them avoid it.

 

Scherzer was deemed a ticking time bomb since before he was drafted, yet he has not had a single major injury throughout his career.

[notin]

Scherzer was deemed a ticking time bomb since before he was drafted, yet he has not had a single major injury throughout his career.

 

And Mark Prior was supposed to have such perfect mechanics that he'd have no arm troubles

[User Name]

By the time Prior got drafted by the Cubbies the industry was already catching up to the dangers of pitching with an inverted W. Prior is still a weird case because what gave was his shoulder, not his elbow. By the way, Tom House is a "pitching guru" who has been teaching guys inverted L and inverted W to pitchers for, I think, more than two decades. Both those mechanical systems allow for greater velocity through the use of scapula loading and a slingshot-type arm action, but at what cost? Nolan Ryan has said multiple times that pitcher velocity should be generated in the lower body. History has proven him right.

[Fisk]

By the time Prior got drafted by the Cubbies the industry was already catching up to the dangers of pitching with an inverted W. Prior is still a weird case because what gave was his shoulder, not his elbow. By the way, Tom House is a "pitching guru" who has been teaching guys inverted L and inverted W to pitchers for, I think, more than two decades. Both those mechanical systems allow for greater velocity through the use of scapula loading and a slingshot-type arm action, but at what cost? Nolan Ryan has said multiple times that pitcher velocity should be generated in the lower body. History has proven him right.

If Nolan Ryan said it it's definitely true. He is a modern miracle of science. Can you imagine any pitcher having his workload in these times.

[Bellhorn04]

What about a guy like Matt Cain? I thought he had the kind of easy-looking delivery that would last a long time.

[User Name]

What about a guy like Matt Cain? I thought he had the kind of easy-looking delivery that would last a long time.

 

O'Leary predicted his problems back in '14, mentioning he does what he likes to call a "Tommy John twist", which is a rotation of the wrist that some pitchers employ that (according to his research and opinion) heavily correlates with TJS. David Price used to not do this, but now does it by the way.

 

O'Leary is extremely knowledgeable, but he's such a massive, self-important, know-it-all douche, that he turns people off from what may be game-changing knowledge regarding baseball biomechanics. He constantly thrashes teams and coaching staffs. That's no way to make friends in the business.

[cp176]

I enjoyed watching Vazquez behind the plate last night. It might be his time.

[SinceYaz]

I know he's only had 25 PAs .... but his .478 BA and .520 OBP sure looks good right now. What I like, in reality, aside from his obvious defensive skills, is the way he is swinging the bat. He shows good control, going with the pitch, going to the opposite field. Signs of maturity that are really enjoyable to see. I like his edgy little beard too. heh

[SinceYaz]

If Nolan Ryan said it it's definitely true. He is a modern miracle of science. Can you imagine any pitcher having his workload in these times.

 

Just imagine ... Nolan used to throw so hard he'd tear the skin off his fingers. If they had not found the solution (brine soaks?) for that little problem, that great arm would have gone to waste.