Christian Vazquez

[S5Dewey]

i think that in this case that is the way you have to look at it. What have you done for me lately? Leon gets the job but does it really make a difference?

 

We're not exactly overburdened with offense at the catching position so it comes down to defense and who the pitchers are more comfortable with. IMO Vaz is still the best defensive catcher on the team but I'm still going home with the girl who got me to the dance. The pitchers know him, he knows them, and it appears that there's a certain amount of comfort there.

However, remember, in 2013 Farrell didn't hesitate to make a catching change when Salty wasn't getting it done behind the plate, so anything can happen.

[mvp 78]

We're not exactly overburdened with offense at the catching position so it comes down to defense and who the pitchers are more comfortable with. IMO Vaz is still the best defensive catcher on the team but I'm still going home with the girl who got me to the dance. The pitchers know him, he knows them, and it appears that there's a certain amount of comfort there.

However, remember, in 2013 Farrell didn't hesitate to make a catching change when Salty wasn't getting it done behind the plate, so anything can happen.

 

That was solely due to Salty's ineffectiveness behind the plate. I doubt any of the 3 guys we have now would replicate that monstrosity.

[cp176]

Leon is a very good catcher. if there is a difference between Vazquez and Leon, it is minuscule. Who should be the starter gong forward isn't debatable at all unless personal sentiments play a greater role than actual performance. The only question really is who should get mop up duty. Saltalamachia never was what I would call a very good catcher.

[S5Dewey]

Leon is a very good catcher. if there is a difference between Vazquez and Leon, it is minuscule. Who should be the starter gong forward isn't debatable at all unless personal sentiments play a greater role than actual performance. The only question really is who should get mop up duty. Saltalamachia never was what I would call a very good catcher.

 

Agreed. Salty's starting was the victory of offense over defense and when push came to shove Farrell went with the defensive catcher. Maybe that's why I like defense. And Vazquez.

But... that's off topic. I'm good with Leon behind the plate for the rest of this season providing he doesn't go into a defensive slump and forgets how to block balls in the dirt, etc., which probably won't happen.

[cp176]

Agreed. Salty's starting was the victory of offense over defense and when push came to shove Farrell went with the defensive catcher. Maybe that's why I like defense. And Vazquez.

But... that's off topic. I'm good with Leon behind the plate for the rest of this season providing he doesn't go into a defensive slump and forgets how to block balls in the dirt, etc., which probably won't happen.

 

Just giving the bear a little poke. I actually agree with much of what you have said. I really hope Vazquez becomes that catcher that we all want him to become. He isn't gong to be handed the job though.

[S5Dewey]

Just when I thought I understood "options" I read that Vazquez is out of options. Ugh.

 

Vazquez came up in April of 2014 and played in 55 games before going down for TJ surgery. He didn't play at all in 2015, and played in 57 games in 2016. Since a player has three option years and he didn't play at all in 2015, how can he be out of options? Anyone got any ideas?

[DirtDog7]

Just when I thought I understood "options" I read that Vazquez is out of options. Ugh.

 

Vazquez came up in April of 2014 and played in 55 games before going down for TJ surgery. He didn't play at all in 2015, and played in 57 games in 2016. Since a player has three option years and he didn't play at all in 2015, how can he be out of options? Anyone got any ideas?

I'm not seeing anything to indicate Vazquez is out of options but it seems a forgone conclusion that either he or Swihart are dealt before next season begins. Leon's bat cooled off toward the end but he's not a bad defensive catcher in his own right. If anything, Boston needs a backup capable of keeping Leon fresh. Vazquez is fun to watch behind the dish but he could fetch a decent return. I'd certainly take some late-inning prospects in return.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I'm not seeing anything to indicate Vazquez is out of options but it seems a forgone conclusion that either he or Swihart are dealt before next season begins. Leon's bat cooled off toward the end but he's not a bad defensive catcher in his own right. If anything, Boston needs a backup capable of keeping Leon fresh. Vazquez is fun to watch behind the dish but he could fetch a decent return. I'd certainly take some late-inning prospects in return.

 

Anything is possible, but I don't think they'll move either Swihart or Vasquez this off season. Vasquez IS out of options, so my guess is that he'll back up Leon and Swihart will catch full time in Pawtucket.

 

There's not a lot of catching depth in MLB, so I wouldn't be in any hurry to move any of these guys at this point.

[Dojji]

I'm not seeing anything to indicate Vazquez is out of options but it seems a forgone conclusion that either he or Swihart are dealt before next season begins. Leon's bat cooled off toward the end but he's not a bad defensive catcher in his own right. If anything, Boston needs a backup capable of keeping Leon fresh. Vazquez is fun to watch behind the dish but he could fetch a decent return. I'd certainly take some late-inning prospects in return.

 

As I understand it you don't have to be called up to lose an option year -- just be on the 40 man roster. Vazquez was added in 2012, leaving 2013, 2014 and 2015 as his option years as in each year he was optioned to the minors following Spring Training -- and explaining why he wasn't sent back down after being called up to replace Swihart.

 

Options and service time are related but I don't believe they're directly connected. Someone can correct me on any of this.

[moonslav59]

According to soxprospects.com, here are the options remaining:

 

0 Wright, Vaz, Brentz, Hembree, Elias, Leon, Pom, Abad, Holaday

1 Holt, JBJ, Kelly, Swihart, Marrero, N Ramirez, Johnson

2 Workman, Barnes, Shaw, Ross, Owens, Jerez, Hernandez, C Smith

3 Beni, Scott, Moncada

 

 

[Spudboy]

Anything is possible, but I don't think they'll move either Swihart or Vasquez this off season. Vasquez IS out of options, so my guess is that he'll back up Leon and Swihart will catch full time in Pawtucket.

 

There's not a lot of catching depth in MLB, so I wouldn't be in any hurry to move any of these guys at this point.

 

Yeah I would be hesitant to move one of these guys.

[bosoxmal]

Everyone seems to lump Swihart in the with the catchers. I thought he did a VG job in LF, and that any remote idea of his ever catching again had been dumped. He's a left fielder now. And a switch hitter to boot. (not all bad, either)

 

Either Leon got really fatigued the last 6 weeks, or the pitchers have caught up with him, He looked like Moncada those last few weeks. I don't see him in the picture next year. If he hits in spring train like he did in October. he'll ne second or third string. Vaz will be the regular catcher next year, I would bet on it.

 

I may have some crazy ideas at times, but I think there is a chance that Pablo will come back and take over 3B.

 

As I've said before, I think Bradley will be gone, and the first regular game of the season will see Swihart in LF, Beintendi in CF and Betts in RF. Aren't players supposed to get better over time? And not worse? The pitchers have made their adjustments for Bradley and Leon. They have not responded.

Edited November 12, 2016 by bosoxmal

[moonslav59]

Everyone seems to lump Swihart in the with the catchers. I thought he did a VG job in LF, and that any remote idea of his ever catching again had been dumped. He's a left fielder now. And a switch hitter to boot. (not all bad, either)

 

Either Leon got really fatigued the last 6 weeks, or the pitchers have caught up with him, He looked like Moncada those last few weeks. I don't see him in the picture next year. If he hits in spring train like he did in October. he'll ne second or third string. Vaz will be the regular catcher next year, I would bet on it.

 

I may have some crazy ideas at times, but I think there is a chance that Pablo will come back and take over 3B.

 

As I've said before, I think Bradley will be gone, and the first regular game of the season will see Swihart in LF, Beintendi in CF and Betts in RF. Aren't players supposed to get better over time? And not worse? The pitchers have made their adjustments for Bradley and Leon. They have not responded.

 

JBJ has showed major progress since last July. Some players are streaky. I think you read too much into just the most recent stats.

 

I do agree that JBJ could be traded. Beni moved to CF. Swi-Young and maybe eventually Moncada in LF.

 

On Leon, he may not have been fatigues. He may not have had pitchers "catch up to him". He may just have returned to the Leon we've known for years and years.

[Spudboy]

JBJ has showed major progress since last July. Some players are streaky. I think you read too much into just the most recent stats.

 

I do agree that JBJ could be traded. Beni moved to CF. Swi-Young and maybe eventually Moncada in LF.

 

On Leon, he may not have been fatigues. He may not have had pitchers "catch up to him". He may just have returned to the Leon we've known for years and years.

 

You have known about him for years and years? Wow.

 

I never knew of him until Ben grabbed him off the scrap heap from Washington. And aside from his hot streak, he is exactly what Kimmi said he would be.

[moonslav59]

You have known about him for years and years? Wow.

 

I never knew of him until Ben grabbed him off the scrap heap from Washington. And aside from his hot streak, he is exactly what Kimmi said he would be.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought everyone here followed the Syracuse Chiefs and Harrisburg Senators back in 2012.

 

 

 

[Kimmi]

Everyone seems to lump Swihart in the with the catchers. I thought he did a VG job in LF, and that any remote idea of his ever catching again had been dumped. He's a left fielder now. And a switch hitter to boot. (not all bad, either)

 

Either Leon got really fatigued the last 6 weeks, or the pitchers have caught up with him, He looked like Moncada those last few weeks. I don't see him in the picture next year. If he hits in spring train like he did in October. he'll ne second or third string. Vaz will be the regular catcher next year, I would bet on it.

 

I may have some crazy ideas at times, but I think there is a chance that Pablo will come back and take over 3B.

 

As I've said before, I think Bradley will be gone, and the first regular game of the season will see Swihart in LF, Beintendi in CF and Betts in RF. Aren't players supposed to get better over time? And not worse? The pitchers have made their adjustments for Bradley and Leon. They have not responded.

 

Actually, Dombrowski said that Swihart would be returning to the catching position and that they're scrapping the left field idea. He also said that as of now, Leon is the #1 catcher, Vazquez #2, and Swihart #3.

[oldtimer]

Actually, Dombrowski said that Swihart would be returning to the catching position and that they're scrapping the left field idea. He also said that as of now, Leon is the #1 catcher, Vazquez #2, and Swihart #3.

 

That is what he said but we will have to await his possible trade moves to see if he really means that. I would expect one of our catchers will be moved as part of a trade.

[Bellhorn04]

That is what he said but we will have to await his possible trade moves to see if he really means that. I would expect one of our catchers will be moved as part of a trade.

 

I'd be very surprised if they trade one of them. They're not bringing Hanigan back, so we're down to Leon and Vazquez, with Swihart working on his defense in Pawtucket.

[S5Dewey]

 

As I've said before, I think Bradley will be gone, and the first regular game of the season will see Swihart in LF, Beintendi in CF and Betts in RF. Aren't players supposed to get better over time? And not worse? The pitchers have made their adjustments for Bradley and Leon. They have not responded.

 

Pete Abraham has tweeted--- Dombrowski mentioned the Benintendi-Bradley-Betts​ OF being “entrenched for a long time.”

[Spudboy]

Pete Abraham has tweeted--- Dombrowski mentioned the Benintendi-Bradley-Betts​ OF being “entrenched for a long time.”

 

Makes sense to me. I hope he sticks with it and does not trade away any foundation players.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Spudboy

[S5Dewey]

Makes sense to me. I hope he sticks with it and does not trade away and foundation players.

 

YES!!

 

I see no reason to trade any one of those guys. These are three guys you trade FOR, not trade AWAY. You may have noticed that I'm not a big fan of WAR and I believe that having those three in the OF will gain more net wins than will trading away any one of them for any pitcher whom we could expect to get for him. (Get real. We're not going to trade any one - or two - or three of those guys in a package to get Clayton Kershaw).

 

BTW, there was a discussion recently in one of our threads about letting the media know about injured players. Did anyone notice that Mookie had surgery to remove "something" (probably cartilage) from his knee that has been bothering him since July?

[cp176]

Hope he heals adequately for his upcoming bowling campaign.

[moonslav59]

That is what he said but we will have to await his possible trade moves to see if he really means that. I would expect one of our catchers will be moved as part of a trade.

 

Might wait until the deadline, so we have a better idea about the concerns attached to all three of our catchers.

[DirtDog7]

Lets see whose bats produce in the Spring. Vazquez hasn't been able to hit for squat but JBJ couldn't once either. We've seen minor adjustments make a world of different. Swihart's bat was coming around before he hit the DL.

[moonslav59]

I haven't given up on Christian's offense, despite his less than flattering.

.782 in A

.731 in AA

.715 in AAA

.602 in MLB

 

I'm hopeful he can get over .700, but I think .650-.675 is probably the best we can expect.

 

[cp176]

If Vazquez is the catcher that some think he is, it would be fairly obvious that he would be our number one going forward. He isn't. I'm not sure that Leon gets the credit he deserves for being a very solid defender. For the Red Sox to use 4 different catchers last year, tells me that they still aren't sure who will the number one going forward. They know that he has and might continue to struggle at the plate but it seems that there must be more to it than that. There might very well be something about his catching in general that keeps them from just handing him the keys to the car. It would be nice, even a luxury to have an excellent catcher with respect to all things defense. The ones that are that good tend to play whether they can hit much or not. Their value to a pitching staff is just too great. Either Leon is just as good as he is or there is some aspect of his overall game that they just aren't sold on yet.

[Nick]

Why the rush to trade away one of our catchers? Let all three build up additional value.

 

And why would Sox entertain trading away an outfield group that can lead us to multiple world series?

 

Fix the f***ing problem, don't create it.

[cp176]

Is that what they are trying to do? I have heard nothing at all that makes me think that they are currently trying to actively trade anybody for anybody.

[moonslav59]

If Vazquez is the catcher that some think he is, it would be fairly obvious that he would be our number one going forward. He isn't. I'm not sure that Leon gets the credit he deserves for being a very solid defender. For the Red Sox to use 4 different catchers last year, tells me that they still aren't sure who will the number one going forward. They know that he has and might continue to struggle at the plate but it seems that there must be more to it than that. There might very well be something about his catching in general that keeps them from just handing him the keys to the car. It would be nice, even a luxury to have an excellent catcher with respect to all things defense. The ones that are that good tend to play whether they can hit much or not. Their value to a pitching staff is just too great. Either Leon is just as good as he is or there is some aspect of his overall game that they just aren't sold on yet.

 

5 catchers:

Swihart

Vazquez

Hanigan

Leon

Holaday

[oldtimer]

If Vazquez is the catcher that some think he is, it would be fairly obvious that he would be our number one going forward. He isn't. I'm not sure that Leon gets the credit he deserves for being a very solid defender. For the Red Sox to use 4 different catchers last year, tells me that they still aren't sure who will the number one going forward. They know that he has and might continue to struggle at the plate but it seems that there must be more to it than that. There might very well be something about his catching in general that keeps them from just handing him the keys to the car. It would be nice, even a luxury to have an excellent catcher with respect to all things defense. The ones that are that good tend to play whether they can hit much or not. Their value to a pitching staff is just too great. Either Leon is just as good as he is or there is some aspect of his overall game that they just aren't sold on yet.

 

Just a note of caution. Leon is our slowest player because he is close to 230# on a 5'10" frame. Catchers need some bulk to handle the position, but that extra weight could wear him down over a season, especially if he became the primary catcher again next year. Lots to think about at the catching position.