Christian Vazquez

[Dojji]

If Vazquez's problem is consistency, camping out on the bench is not going to help him. You call him up to sit on the bench if and only if you've given up on him as a starting catcher.

[southpaw777]

No surprise that after a year his offense needs to catch back up, and it will as it was starting to before his TJS...Leon is hitting good and is a great defensive catcher who is out of options...Giving Vaz the bulk of the load in AAA is most definitely the right move...he will be up in sept and probably be back up in 2017...

[cp176]

No surprise that after a year his offense needs to catch back up, and it will as it was starting to before his TJS...Leon is hitting good and is a great defensive catcher who is out of options...Giving Vaz the bulk of the load in AAA is most definitely the right move...he will be up in sept and probably be back up in 2017...

 

Barring a trade though, if Leon doesn't turn into a pumpkin, Vaz will half to hit one helluva lot better than he has thus far or he is destined to seat on the pine in Boston. As each day goes by, it appears to be Sandy's job tools more than ever don't you think?

[moonslav59]

Maybe Vaz is the back-up catcher next year. He may become one pitcher's caddy or play vs some LHPs, although the switch-hitting Leon seems to hit lefties much better as well.

 

The Sox rarely go lefty-righty with their catchers. They usually prefer the personal caddy approach, but if they do, perhaps Swihart matches up better on a L-R platoon with Leon.

 

It's pretty amazing how quickly the future Sox catcher narrative has gone from Vazquez vs Swihart to Leon vs the myth of Leon.

 

[sk7326]

Vaz' hitting was bad. And the things you would expect from an elite defensive catcher did not bear out in the performance of the rotation. While on one hand Leon has been a crazy small sample fluke (arguably) ... he is also 27 and approximately as likely as Vasquez to actually be a good starter based on empirical evidence. (and since he is clearly a better one on current form, hoorray)

[moonslav59]

Vaz' hitting was bad. And the things you would expect from an elite defensive catcher did not bear out in the performance of the rotation. While on one hand Leon has been a crazy small sample fluke (arguably) ... he is also 27 and approximately as likely as Vasquez to actually be a good starter based on empirical evidence. (and since he is clearly a better one on current form, hoorray)

 

Remember that Vaz did not catch our rotation last year due to injury, so the "performance of the staff" this year may not be something easily judged. This is largely a new staff compared to 2014.

[Dojji]

This is largely a new staff compared to April 2016, really very little of the rotation this year turned out as expected.

[Nick]

I'm not sure where Leon's bat will eventually bottom out to be but he looks very comfortable at the plate. Catching position to me is not a problem right now when Leon starts. Need a better back up though.

 

I

[moonslav59]

Being a switch hitter may help as well, but his career splits show a 160 point edge vs lefties.

 

The only time in his 10 seasons on the farm in which he had a prolonged hitting stretch was in 2012 with an .856 OPs in 231 PAs. His other best stretch was during the fall league of 2013, when he had a .938 OPS in 142 PAs. After that, his best stretch was .701 in 2009 low A ball.

 

I'm remaining hopeful, but we might be lucky to end up with a .680 to .720 catcher when all is said and done.

[Dalas21000]

So are they resting Leon today? That hurts not having him in the lineup

[sk7326]

This is largely a new staff compared to April 2016, really very little of the rotation this year turned out as expected.

 

it is - but that means there is no real statistical evidence Vasquez would be better than Leon. And that is fine for now.

[moonslav59]

So are they resting Leon today? That hurts not having him in the lineup

 

With tomorrow off, one wonders why...

[bosoxmal]

Varitek was here for ten years.

[moonslav59]

...and VTek really did not become known for his defense/pitcher -handling until age 31 or 32.

[bosoxmal]

So you are implying that it's unlikely that a catcher cannot be both a switch hitter and a good defensive catcher? I don't see why not.

[moonslav59]

So you are implying that it's unlikely that a catcher cannot be both a switch hitter and a good defensive catcher? I don't see why not.

 

Who me?

 

Nope.

 

I was trying to show that sometimes great catcher defense, especially with the intangibles like calling a good game, working with the staff, pitch-framing, etc... takes time to fully develop.

 

Leon seems to be our best defensive catcher right now. Vaz is probably our second best with Swihart having a long way to go, however, the intangible part of our young catchers' game is still not known.

 

 

I love the fact that Leon switch hits, but like VTek, he seems to have big split disparities, so I'm not sure being a split hitter helps much.

 

Look at Pablo last year. He did better when he didn't switch hit.

 

Unlike many here, I'm extremely pleased with our current catcher situation and I'm ecstatic about our future outlook at catcher, whether Leon continues hitting over .700 or not.

[southpaw777]

Barring a trade though, if Leon doesn't turn into a pumpkin, Vaz will half to hit one helluva lot better than he has thus far or he is destined to seat on the pine in Boston. As each day goes by, it appears to be Sandy's job tools more than ever don't you think?

 

Maybe, but Vaz has started hitting in AAA. I think Vaz is better defensively than Leon when both are at their best. Leons bat seems to be for real so far. It will certainly be interesting to see what they do moving forward, especially how they feel about Vaz. They are very high on him.

[cp176]

Maybe, but Vaz has started hitting in AAA. I think Vaz is better defensively than Leon when both are at their best. Leons bat seems to be for real so far. It will certainly be interesting to see what they do moving forward, especially how they feel about Vaz. They are very high on him.

 

I would like to see Vazquez become the catcher that everyone thinks that he could become. if Leon continues to play like he has though, Vaz just might not get that chance in Boston. Is Vaz a better defense catcher than Leon? I know what the scouts say and what we hope for but is he actually better than Leon? It's a good problem to have.

[Behindenemylines]

Maybe, but Vaz has started hitting in AAA. I think Vaz is better defensively than Leon when both are at their best. Leons bat seems to be for real so far. It will certainly be interesting to see what they do moving forward, especially how they feel about Vaz. They are very high on him.

 

Until Vazquez hits Leon this season has been the better all around player. Vasquez may be better defensively, but Leon has not hurt the Sox.

[notin]

Vazquez strikes me as a prototypical back up catcher. He's much closer to being Jose Molina than to being Yadier. If the Sox ever put Swihart back at catcher, he could be the future. But the present right now is BABIP machine Sandy Leon. Leon's stellar season might even make Vazquez expendable, although he won't be worth what he was two years ago....

[Eddy Ballgame]

Vazquez strikes me as a prototypical back up catcher. He's much closer to being Jose Molina than to being Yadier. If the Sox ever put Swihart back at catcher, he could be the future. But the present right now is BABIP machine Sandy Leon. Leon's stellar season might even make Vazquez expendable, although he won't be worth what he was two years ago....

 

Well said. They will have some decisions to make this winter. I do still think that Vasquez could be a viable MLB starting catcher some day, especially since he supposedly puts the work in, but it may be a while and it may be somewhere else.

 

Swihart's lost season definitely impedes his development & his trade value takes a hit, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't catching full time again somewhere next year, most likely in AAA ball.

[Dojji]

Until Vazquez hits Leon this season has been the better all around player. Vasquez may be better defensively, but Leon has not hurt the Sox.

 

 

I feel like it's important to play down Leon's offensive successes because of the mirage factor. I mean we're talking about a guy who has never hit well over a full season in his life. It's almost literally unprecedented for a guy like that to turn his career around out of nowhere. It's still far more probable that he'll collapse into a smoking ruin again than that he won't. I'm pulling hard for him, but the facts are the facts, this is far more likely to be a fluke than that this is the new real Sandy Leon.

[mvp 78]

I feel like it's important to play down Leon's offensive successes because of the mirage factor. I mean we're talking about a guy who has never hit well over a full season in his life. It's almost literally unprecedented for a guy like that to turn his career around out of nowhere. It's still far more probable that he'll collapse into a smoking ruin again than that he won't. I'm pulling hard for him, but the facts are the facts, this is far more likely to be a fluke than that this is the new real Sandy Leon.

 

2012 was a mirage too?

[Dojji]

Since he did such a fantastic job of following up on it, I have to say yes.

[SoxnCycles]

I feel like it's important to play down Leon's offensive successes because of the mirage factor. I mean we're talking about a guy who has never hit well over a full season in his life. It's almost literally unprecedented for a guy like that to turn his career around out of nowhere. It's still far more probable that he'll collapse into a smoking ruin again than that he won't. I'm pulling hard for him, but the facts are the facts, this is far more likely to be a fluke than that this is the new real Sandy Leon.

 

Just how old do you think the guy is?

It's not like there's a ten year career to look at.

[mvp 78]

Since he did such a fantastic job of following up on it, I have to say yes.

 

Seeing that he wasn't given a shot to play for the Nationals in 2013, I'd say maybe not.

[illinoisredsox]

Seeing that he wasn't given a shot to play for the Nationals in 2013, I'd say maybe not.

 

OTOH, his 2014 stats say maybe. So do his 2015 stats.

 

And, as you so often like to respond to me: sss

[cp176]

I feel like it's important to play down Leon's offensive successes because of the mirage factor. I mean we're talking about a guy who has never hit well over a full season in his life. It's almost literally unprecedented for a guy like that to turn his career around out of nowhere. It's still far more probable that he'll collapse into a smoking ruin again than that he won't. I'm pulling hard for him, but the facts are the facts, this is far more likely to be a fluke than that this is the new real Sandy Leon.

 

You might be right with respect to Leon. You might not be. It is also a fair possibility that Vazquez never becomes the catcher and player that some think he should. I like Leon's chances right now better than I do Vazquez's. He is performing at a level that is unfamiliar to Vazquez. Obviously Leon is hitting at a level that is unfamiliar to him. i'm enjoying it.

[sk7326]

I feel like it's important to play down Leon's offensive successes because of the mirage factor. I mean we're talking about a guy who has never hit well over a full season in his life. It's almost literally unprecedented for a guy like that to turn his career around out of nowhere. It's still far more probable that he'll collapse into a smoking ruin again than that he won't. I'm pulling hard for him, but the facts are the facts, this is far more likely to be a fluke than that this is the new real Sandy Leon.

 

Of course! But you can say all of this about Vasquez, and between the two Leon is actually hitting the baseball. I'd put it this way - there is precious little evidence that the Red Sox are playing the wrong guy (between Leon and Vasquez) for the near and long term.

[southpaw777]

Until Vazquez hits Leon this season has been the better all around player. Vasquez may be better defensively, but Leon has not hurt the Sox.

 

Yeah, Im not saying that Leon couldnt be the man in boston. Vaz needs to hit more. No arguing that.