Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Dojji]

Because the pitching has improved lately and there is little else to talk about.

[Bellhorn04]

This whole forum is unnecessary, which is probably one of the big reasons I spend so much time here.

[moonslav59]

Why is it necessary to discuss Price opting out two years from now?

 

Why is it necessary to discuss what's necesary to discuss?

[Kimmi]

Yes, we could spend save $150 million on the remainder of Price's contract and spend $300 million on our next FA pitcher.

 

It's possible. But if they are going to spend $300 million on our next FA pitcher, I would hope that he is at least on the right side of 30.

[Kimmi]

i would rather put that $150 towards whatever stud FA pitcher that is late 20's when price opts out. this way we will be "missing out" on paying price $31MM per year age 35+. unless he is nolan ryan or uses drugs like clemens i dont like him at mid 30's.....

 

^^This.

[Kimmi]

Why is it necessary to discuss Price opting out two years from now?

 

It's what we do.

[a700hitter]

It's possible. But if they are going to spend $300 million on our next FA pitcher, I would hope that he is at least on the right side of 30.

They blow out their arms too.

[Kimmi]

They blow out their arms too.

 

Of course, which is why I'm against such contracts to begin with. But the risk of injury and decline is usually less with a young pitcher than an older one.

[a700hitter]

Of course, which is why I'm against such contracts to begin with. But the risk of injury and decline is usually less with a young pitcher than an older one.

I am not so sure that pitchers over 30 blow out their arms more often than pitchers under 30. You will have to get over not liking big long contracts for pitchers. In my lifetime, we have drafted and developed 2 star pitchers -- Clemens and Lester. We can't depend on scouting and pitcher development for our pitching.

[Kimmi]

I am not so sure that pitchers over 30 blow out their arms more often than pitchers under 30. You will have to get over not liking big long contracts for pitchers. In my lifetime, we have drafted and developed 2 star pitchers -- Clemens and Lester. We can't depend on scouting and pitcher development for our pitching.

 

That might be the case, though that goes against my logic. Regardless, pitchers over 30 are in their decline phase. They are more of a risk to sign than younger pitchers.

[User Name]

Sox Rumors: Sale, Quintana, Bradley

By Connor Byrne | August 28, 2016 at 4:36pm CDT

 

The White Sox discussed left-handed aces Chris Sale and Jose Quintana with the Red Sox prior to the Aug. 1 non-waiver trade deadline, but Boston was unwilling to part with center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. for either, reports Bruce Levine of CBS Chicago.

 

It’s unclear who else was involved in the teams’ talks, but had the Red Sox given up Bradley for Sale or Quintana, they would have damaged one area of their roster to improve another. That’s something contending teams are especially loath to do during the season. However, the two clubs could resume negotiations in the offseason, writes Levine.

 

Bradley broke out offensively last summer and is now in the midst of his best full season at the major league level, having slashed .272/.349/.499 with 21 home runs in 510 plate appearances. He has also provided value on the base paths, with FanGraphs rating him as the 13th-best base runner in the league, as well as in the field. The 26-year-old ranks top five among center fielders in Defensive Runs Saved (nine), Ultimate Zone Rating (3.4) and UZR/150 (4.9). Bradley’s defensive work has earned plaudits since his major league career began in earnest two years ago, but it took some time for his output at the dish to catch up. Now, given his explosion with the bat, Bradley looks poised to land a significant raise in arbitration during the offseason as a likely Super Two player, which MLBTR’s Jeff Todd touched on earlier this week. That will be the first of four possible arbitration trips for Bradley, who has easily outperformed his $536,500 salary this season.

 

As is the case with Bradley, Chicago’s two 27-year-old front-line starters are bargains. Sale, who’s in his fifth straight year as an elite-level ace, is controllable from 2017-2019 for around $40MM. Like Sale, Quintana has turned in quality seasons for a half-decade, and his contract is even more appealing than his teammate’s. Quintana will make $14.35MM over the next two seasons and then up to $21MM more with a pair of $10.5MM club options that run through 2020.

 

While neither Sale nor Quintana is a lock to go anywhere during the winter, that could change if the White Sox decide to rebuild. Chicago is on track to miss the playoffs for an eighth straight year, and general manager Rick Hahn indicated Thursday that the franchise’s direction will become clear early in the offseason. If the White Sox choose to shop at least one of Sale or Quintana, the weak free agent market for pitchers would make the upcoming offseason an ideal time for it, as Levine notes. Any team in need of pitching – including Boston – would likely inquire on either or both, thereby enabling Chicago to spark a bidding war.

 

 

Per MLBTR.

[moonslav59]

Could we trade JBJ and others for Sale or Quintana and then put Beni in CF and make do with a Young/Swihart platoon in LF? Could we move Moncada to LF?

 

I'm not sure I like either of those ideas, but I don't think JBJ would be someone I'd say no about when trying to get Quintana (or possibly Sale). We could also trade JBJ and then sign an OF'er this winter.

 

I wonder if we'll ever know who the other piece(s) was.

 

[User Name]

They were probably asking for one each of Beni/Moncada, Kopech/Espinoza and JBJ/Betts

[sk7326]

I am not so sure that pitchers over 30 blow out their arms more often than pitchers under 30. You will have to get over not liking big long contracts for pitchers. In my lifetime, we have drafted and developed 2 star pitchers -- Clemens and Lester. We can't depend on scouting and pitcher development for our pitching.

 

And a lot of them end up being dealt anyway because flags fly forever ... and if you're gonna trade minor league stuff, the volatility with pitchers from the seller view (as well as the scarcity of good young pitchers for the buyer side) makes them sensible to look at

[oldtimer]

And a lot of them end up being dealt anyway because flags fly forever ... and if you're gonna trade minor league stuff, the volatility with pitchers from the seller view (as well as the scarcity of good young pitchers for the buyer side) makes them sensible to look at

 

After the debacle tonight it is hard to love our pitching. With a hard earned lead the Red Sox get an E-Rod who loses the plate and gets left in too long. When Barnes is brought in he gets unlucky and then is bombed for 5 earned runs, then Robbie Ross who also gives up hits and more runs. Hard to pin those on Farrell, just bad luck and poor pitching. A loss is pretty much assured on a game that we had a good chance of winning. I'm going to bed as this one is decided. Maybe we need to get our own lucky mascot. Darn shame that we lose games in such a discouraging way. Can't trust Tazawa, can't trust Barnes the litany goes on.

[mvp 78]

Ranking the horribleness of the bullpen from meh to garbage fire:

Ziegler

Kimbrel

Buchholz

Ross

Barnes

Tazawa

Abad

 

Uehara may be done for the year. I'd rather Hembree than Tazawa right now. I don't see Elias, Kelly or Ramirez helping us going forward.

 

Can we get Tommy Layne back? Dumping him was the weirdest move of the season to me.

[southpaw777]

Buch was fine in the pen and looked a lot better when he got beack in the rotation. I think the pen did him good. Now personally, I would have left him in the rotation...had a feeling we were gonna see some more good pitching from him...

[mvp 78]

Buch was fine in the pen and looked a lot better when he got beack in the rotation. I think the pen did him good. Now personally, I would have left him in the rotation...had a feeling we were gonna see some more good pitching from him...

 

Who would you have taken out of the rotation? Wright? ERod?

[Slasher9]

I am not so sure that pitchers over 30 blow out their arms more often than pitchers under 30. You will have to get over not liking big long contracts for pitchers. In my lifetime, we have drafted and developed 2 star pitchers -- Clemens and Lester. We can't depend on scouting and pitcher development for our pitching.

 

with all things being equal (and by things i mean "health") i think it's the extra 2-? (pick a number) MPH on the FB that a pitcher heading into his mid 30's loses that is the difference. hence my comment about the express & drugs.....

i'd rather pay $31MM for a 29 YO pitcher with 96MPH FB who may or may not blow out his arm than pay $31MM for a 34 YO pitcher with a 92MPH FB who may or may not blow out his arm.....

[cp176]

Per MLBTR.

 

Someone is going to go during the off season and I sure as hell hope that is a prospect or prospects and not a player who is starting to become a very good major league player - Bradley. We are getting to close to seeing what he will give us going forward i think. As much as we all love our prospects, I just think it is a big stretch to think any of them currently at the major or minor league level will jump right out and give us what he is giving us right now.

[Station 13]

Ranking the horribleness of the bullpen from meh to garbage fire:

Ziegler

Kimbrel

Buchholz

Ross

Barnes

Tazawa

Abad

 

Uehara may be done for the year. I'd rather Hembree than Tazawa right now. I don't see Elias, Kelly or Ramirez helping us going forward.

 

Can we get Tommy Layne back? Dumping him was the weirdest move of the season to me.

 

Who is Ramirez? Are you saying Hanley or some reliever?

 

Barnes sucks, always has. Tazawa hasn't been the same since his shoulder injury in June. Velocity down 3 MPH.

[mvp 78]

Noe Ramirez is a pitcher that has pitched out of the pen in 11 games this year.

[Station 13]

Noe Ramirez is a pitcher that has pitched out of the pen in 11 games this year.

Oh, I forgotten about Noe. It was best that way.

[User Name]

Tazawa looks toast.

[mvp 78]

Tazawa looks toast.

 

Yup, that's one of my favorite Jacko lines too.

[mvp 78]

Oh, I forgotten about Noe. It was best that way.

 

The key to the season is Ryan LaMarre! He has the lowest ERA of any guy not named Carson Smith. Get him out there!!!

[sk7326]

The bullpen has stunk too often. Now, your best bet for fixing it? You have to look at the September callup period as an audition for guys.

 

When the Red Sox get to October (let's hope) - you have to think that Porcello, Price and Wright are going to be your guys who will have the chance to face 27 hitters (i.e. three times through the order). We know that effectiveness goes down each time through and significantly the third and especially fourth time through. (hitter comfort x diminished stuff) Rodriguez and whomever is #5 you put on the 18 batter plan and then plan accordingly. Quicker hooks, matchup dependencies and such. Buchholz could be a lynchpin (ducking lightning bolt) - as someone who can actually face more than three batters with a little less fear.

 

At the same time if Koji returns - a lot of this gets cleaner.

[mvp 78]

The bullpen has stunk too often. Now, your best bet for fixing it? You have to look at the September callup period as an audition for guys.

 

Agreed 100%. Call up Ryan LaMarre! http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10700&position=P

[oldtimer]

Who is Ramirez? Are you saying Hanley or some reliever?

 

Barnes sucks, always has. Tazawa hasn't been the same since his shoulder injury in June. Velocity down 3 MPH.

 

Ziegler is a good RP but is also a FA I believe. Kimbrel has done a fairly good job, Buchholz has looked better with the bullpen work, Ross is a valuable BP asset, Barnes just isn't getting it done despite the good velocity, Tazawa has been used an awful lot and then was injured (maybe his career is on the downside but he deserve much credit for all the past work he has done), Abad in my opinion, has very good stuff and is acclimatizing himself to the new position (I would definitely keep him).

 

Do we have enough relief pitching to get to the Playoffs? It hasn't looked good and in combination with JF's reluctance to pull pitchers until the damage is done further harms our chances.

[mvp 78]

Good enough to get in, bad enough to get smoked in the Division Series.