All things Moncada

[Maxbialystock]

And it could be that he is another highly athletic player from Cuba that is just not ready for the responsibilities of MLB ball.

 

Although he has seemed to adapt to the materialistic aspect of stardom now that he drives a Lamborghini.

 

I'm not surprised that his game is unpolished. It's not like he has had the opportunities to play and to be coached as with Benintendi. They are about the same age yet one is clearly a much more finished product with about the same pro service time.

 

I' am curious to see how Mocada hits. He has had about one full season of at bats in the pros.

 

During an interview for ESPN's 30/30 on Michael Jordan's attempt at pro baseball, Terry Francona said that if age and the NBA were not considerations, Jordan would have become a Major League player. As Francona saw it, it takes a player a solid 1200 AB in pro ball to become ready for MLB. I trust Francona. He knows more about baseball and player development than anyone here.

 

Benintendi saw much more quality pitching in college. I also assume that he is just a more advanced talent than Moncada.

 

If Moncada rakes near term my points are moot. If he is less than stellar, it could be because he needs more time in the minors.

 

I can't argue with any of that and was unaware of that 1200 AB concept, which makes sense for most players. Moncada isn't most players, but he also has had a whole lot less professional time than most players. Plus, as you say, the Cuban "suddenly I'm rich" thing.

[Hugh2]

3B has become a black hole on this team. Ok that's probably an exaggeration but the production from the hot corner has been pretty bad on both sides of the ball for about 3 months now.

 

Moncada doesn't have to come up and become a starter, or a star. If he gives us something marginally better, then it was worth a call up. Even if he just swipes a few bags off the bench he adds value in September as the organization doesn't really have any other base stealing options in the minors.

[moonslav59]

I am glad that you are not his agent. MVP, thinks Pedey is overpaid.

 

.It was generally agreed that Pedey was underpaid, when he signed his long extension.

 

$12.6M a year for a recent MVP at his age was clearly a "hometown discount".

 

I'm not defending the Sox lowball offer, but in the context of Pedey's "discount", maybe the Sox thought they could hit lightening twice.

 

[a700hitter]

.It was generally agreed that Pedey was underpaid, when he signed his long extension.

 

$12.6M a year for a recent MVP at his age was clearly a "hometown discount".

 

I'm not defending the Sox lowball offer, but in the context of Pedey's "discount", maybe the Sox thought they could hit lightening twice.

 

Take it up with MVP

[Hugh2]

.It was generally agreed that Pedey was underpaid, when he signed his long extension.

 

$12.6M a year for a recent MVP at his age was clearly a "hometown discount".

 

I'm not defending the Sox lowball offer, but in the context of Pedey's "discount", maybe the Sox thought they could hit lightening twice.

 

 

I do remember at the time it was considered a huge hometown discount. Maybe not as extreme as it seems now for two reasons. First off salary inflation has been on the rise every single year and 12.5 million seems a lot cheaper today than it did several years ago. Also, I think Pedroias year this year is a reminder that he's either not in decline at all because he's fully healthy.....or his decline is going to be much smaller than some may of anticipated a few years ago.

[Emp9]

So, is it a given Moncada will start today & vs all RH'ed SPers going forward?

[cp176]

Interesting how people leap to Moncada's defense. Look, I know he is the #1 rated prospect in MLB. My point is that he is also a rookie and a raw rookie at that. If there is a rationale for the minors, including AAA, it is for young players to learn and work on their weaknesses before they get to the Show.

 

As I pointed out, Sox Prospects talks at length about his speed, strong arm, swing, etc. But it also says he tends to lose focus, and we are already seeing that in spades. Bogaerts, I hasten to add, was completely focused from the day he got here. As talented as he is, determination may be his strongest suit. And Betts is in the same category--talented and determined. My guess would be that the Orioles Machado was the same way when he came up.

 

Let's hope the determination part rubs off on Moncada, but it won't be easy because he already has some big money and a lot of adulation from the press.

 

He is 21 years old. He doesn't need anyone to defend him. Anyone who expected a finished product is a buffoon. I did't think that it would be too long before people would start comparing him to Benintendi as well. They both play baseball - that is it. They are both still prospects. How about just giving the kid a chance.

[Maxbialystock]

.It was generally agreed that Pedey was underpaid, when he signed his long extension.

 

$12.6M a year for a recent MVP at his age was clearly a "hometown discount".

 

I'm not defending the Sox lowball offer, but in the context of Pedey's "discount", maybe the Sox thought they could hit lightening twice.

 

 

I think Pedroia got a great deal for several reasons. First and foremost, the MVP award was anomalous--earned, but it occurred at just the right moment when the competition was less that normal. Second, he is a small guy, which to me means diminishing strength, speed, reflexes over time. Right now, 2016, he is 33 and having almost a career year--a huge bargain for the Sox--but he gets paid through 2021, when he will be 38, and those years, 2017 thru 2021, are the higher paid years of his contract. Most of all, I think Pedroia and his wife like it in Boston and figured out, as few ballplayers seem to do these days, that making an average of $14M/year over 8 years is a king's ransom and more than enough to live very comfortably for the rest of their lives. Plus Pedroia loves to play the game, which is something players usually don't figure out until they are near the end of their careers.

 

Too many players don't realize that they are actually playing for their agents, who are the real beneficiaries of these inflated salaries.

 

As for Jon Lester, I think he just got the going rate, one, it turns out, the Sox could afford, especially when Price is getting $5M/season more and for one extra year. I think he would have stayed if the Sox first offer had been better. I also think he was lost forever when the Sox let him go during the 2014 season.

[moonslav59]

He could have gotten much more. There's no doubt.

[mvp 78]

I am glad that you are not his agent. MVP, thinks Pedey is overpaid.

 

He's not overpaid today. He'll probably be overpaid tomorrow.

 

He has had a terrific bounce back season. I won't take that away from him. Let's see if he can keep it up.

[sk7326]

He's not overpaid today. He'll probably be overpaid tomorrow.

 

He has had a terrific bounce back season. I won't take that away from him. Let's see if he can keep it up.

 

When he's been healthy - he has been quite good. OF course that's the trick.

[sk7326]

I think Pedroia got a great deal for several reasons. First and foremost, the MVP award was anomalous--earned, but it occurred at just the right moment when the competition was less that normal. Second, he is a small guy, which to me means diminishing strength, speed, reflexes over time. Right now, 2016, he is 33 and having almost a career year--a huge bargain for the Sox--but he gets paid through 2021, when he will be 38, and those years, 2017 thru 2021, are the higher paid years of his contract. Most of all, I think Pedroia and his wife like it in Boston and figured out, as few ballplayers seem to do these days, that making an average of $14M/year over 8 years is a king's ransom and more than enough to live very comfortably for the rest of their lives. Plus Pedroia loves to play the game, which is something players usually don't figure out until they are near the end of their careers.

 

Too many players don't realize that they are actually playing for their agents, who are the real beneficiaries of these inflated salaries.

 

As for Jon Lester, I think he just got the going rate, one, it turns out, the Sox could afford, especially when Price is getting $5M/season more and for one extra year. I think he would have stayed if the Sox first offer had been better. I also think he was lost forever when the Sox let him go during the 2014 season.

 

He was very much up there in the "most valuable player conversation" in 2008-2011. There was no fluke - there was no David Eckstein level pity. He was legitimately outstanding.

 

He is happy in Boston. Good. Agents work for players, not the other way around - and the salaries are not at all inflated.

[sk7326]

So, is it a given Moncada will start today & vs all RH'ed SPers going forward?

 

Maybe, maybe not. Shaw should not get too down - if Moncada is going to strike out 40% of the time going forward, it's not going to be that much of an improvement on Shaw.

[sk7326]

I said that I am glad that we got him. I wouldn't be surprised if they outbid the field by $5 to 10 million. They just suck at gauging market value imo.

 

Giant bonuses are the best dollar value in player personnel ...

 

Moncada's bonus is probably the sort of bonus a good draft year #1 overall pick gets if there in fact no draft.

[moonslav59]

Maybe, maybe not. Shaw should not get too down - if Moncada is going to strike out 40% of the time going forward, it's not going to be that much of an improvement on Shaw.

 

I just don't get the whole fixation on Ks. I never have.

 

If Moncada K's 50% of the time, but gets on base 37% of the time, I'll take that over Shaw K'ing 35% of the time and getting on base at a .325 clip.

[S5Dewey]

I just don't get the whole fixation on Ks. I never have.

 

If Moncada K's 50% of the time, but gets on base 37% of the time, I'll take that over Shaw K'ing 35% of the time and getting on base at a .325 clip.

 

I know this sounds strange, but having lived through the Mike Napoli years of K's there were times when, with a runner on 1st, I was actually GLAD to see him K as opposed to hitting into a DP. The same with Papi on occasion.

 

And I know the two I mentioned are notoriously slow as opposed to Moncada who has very good 'wheels', but sometimes a K isn't the worst thing a player can do.

[sk7326]

I just don't get the whole fixation on Ks. I never have.

 

If Moncada K's 50% of the time, but gets on base 37% of the time, I'll take that over Shaw K'ing 35% of the time and getting on base at a .325 clip.

 

I agree in principle. On the other hand there is the "can he actually hit the baseball major leaguers are throwing him" ... as I noted, that's what the scouting is for - was his enormous strikeout rate in Portland a choice in approach, or his bat being afraid of breaking stuff?

 

I think that is why he was down longer than Benintendi with better superficial numbers. You can get a lot done with athletic advantage at lower levels. That AA pitchers got him to whiff a third of the time could (could!!) be a harbinger that there is an absence of craft at this point (which would not be surprising!).

 

I am excited about his arrival - I know the .571 BABIP ain't gonna last.

[sk7326]

I know this sounds strange, but having lived through the Mike Napoli years of K's there were times when, with a runner on 1st, I was actually GLAD to see him K as opposed to hitting into a DP. The same with Papi on occasion.

 

And I know the two I mentioned are notoriously slow as opposed to Moncada who has very good 'wheels', but sometimes a K isn't the worst thing a player can do.

 

See above post - with Napoli, there was clear approach and craft. He was looking for something to mash and he walked a ton ...

[moonslav59]

I agree in principle. On the other hand there is the "can he actually hit the baseball major leaguers are throwing him" ... as I noted, that's what the scouting is for - was his enormous strikeout rate in Portland a choice in approach, or his bat being afraid of breaking stuff?

 

I think that is why he was down longer than Benintendi with better superficial numbers. You can get a lot done with athletic advantage at lower levels. That AA pitchers got him to whiff a third of the time could (could!!) be a harbinger that there is an absence of craft at this point (which would not be surprising!).

 

I am excited about his arrival - I know the .571 BABIP ain't gonna last.

 

Yeah, 64 Ks in 177 ABs is not good, but he did still put up a .379 OBP and .531 SLG at AA, so until he shows me the Ks interfere with his production, I'll be fine with a high K rate.

[moonslav59]

See above post - with Napoli, there was clear approach and craft. He was looking for something to mash and he walked a ton ...

 

114 BBs in in 854 minor league PAs is pretty darn good! (13.3%)

 

It's actually better than Napoli's 12.4% BB MLB rate. (Mike's minor league rate was 14.7%.)

[sk7326]

114 BBs in in 854 minor league PAs is pretty darn good! (13.3%)

 

It's actually better than Napoli's 12.4% BB MLB rate. (Mike's minor league rate was 14.7%.)

 

With Napoli it carried over.

 

Listen, I am excited to see Moncada - and I think he can be really good. I also am cautious because of his issues making contact - since I do not know whether it was a Napoli-esque calculation, or some real blind spots. And - while I am not worried about him defensively per se ... there is no reason to believe the (run production + run prevention) total package is a clear upgrade on Shaw (at least right now). You can live with Shaw's production if the run prevention impact is significant after all. He is a good sort of guy to have at the bottom of the lineup - solid defensively and can mash from time to time.

 

I am open minded - and baseball is fun. This is cool.

[moonslav59]

With Napoli it carried over.

 

Listen, I am excited to see Moncada - and I think he can be really good. I also am cautious because of his issues making contact - since I do not know whether it was a Napoli-esque calculation, or some real blind spots. And - while I am not worried about him defensively per se ... there is no reason to believe the (run production + run prevention) total package is a clear upgrade on Shaw (at least right now). You can live with Shaw's production if the run prevention impact is significant after all. He is a good sort of guy to have at the bottom of the lineup - solid defensively and can mash from time to time.

 

I am open minded - and baseball is fun. This is cool.

 

I agree, but I'm not sure I'd call Shaw "solid" on defense at 3B. He's okay at best, IMO.

 

Shaw wasn't "getting it done", so I understand the move. Too bad they benched him after one of his best games of the season.

[moonslav59]

Certainly the high K rate at AA is a warning. It can't get much higher at the big league level to not have an affect on his OBP and SLG.

 

If you miss contact that much with AA pitchers, I can see the concern at the MLB level.

 

I'm just saying, until I see a poor OBP and SLG, I'm overlooking the K rate.

[Hugh2]

lets also not forget he's a young 21 year old who skipped AAA and was rushed to the majors. But he also put up a .395 OBP and just started to show his power. I think theres more power in the bat as well. It's definitely not great, but its not really a concern of mine at this point either.

[Spudboy]

See above post - with Napoli, there was clear approach and craft. He was looking for something to mash and he walked a ton ...

 

And as a consequence usually saw many pitches.

[Slasher9]

Trouble With The Curve

[Maxbialystock]

Trouble With The Curve

 

Big time. Like he never saw one before. It's ok though. MLB is where you pick those skills up.

[Maxbialystock]

Another curve, another K. Who needs AAA?

[mvp 78]

He strikes out a lot, but you have to stick with him through the end of the year. Shaw and Hill weren't playing all that great anyway.

 

Soxprospects was saying his high K rate was due to him knowing "the strike zone better than the AA umps." Maybe it's not really the case?

[jad]

He strikes out a lot, but you have to stick with him through the end of the year. Shaw and Hill weren't playing all that great anyway.

 

Soxprospects was saying his high K rate was due to him knowing "the strike zone better than the AA umps." Maybe it's not really the case?

 

Wow. That's is sports-fan logic at its best!