Referendum on John Farrell

[User Name]

Is that quantifiable? The thought of this is making me choke.

 

I see what you did there.

[mvp 78]

Well one thing is certain.

 

Farrell is not clutch!

 

Especially when filling out the lineup card.

 

Had no problem throwing Shaw out there against LHP. Beni? LOL NOPE.

[Bellhorn04]

Especially when filling out the lineup card.

 

Had no problem throwing Shaw out there against LHP. Beni? LOL NOPE.

 

You mean last night? Shaw didn't come in until Pedey got hurt.

[cp176]

I see what you did there.

 

Sorry - couldn't help myself.

[mvp 78]

You mean last night? Shaw didn't come in until Pedey got hurt.

 

I meant the first 4 months of the season when Shaw was inept against LHP.

[Bellhorn04]

I meant the first 4 months of the season when Shaw was inept against LHP.

 

OK. But we didn't have many other options for third base, until they got Hill.

[devildavid]

In general, baseball is not a strategic game.

 

Trying to quantify everything does not always give you better information. Math is a tool with limitations.

[Slasher9]

OK. But we didn't have many other options for third base, until they got Hill.

 

And JF was phing young for shaw very early in the season and folk on this site were up in arms about it.. Now we are complaining that shaw is in the game. A game in which he went yard. Ok.

[Kimmi]

In general, baseball is not a strategic game.

 

Trying to quantify everything does not always give you better information. Math is a tool with limitations.

 

[Kimmi]

What off the field stuff are you referring to that is an important role(s) of a manager that adds value or affects team performance?

 

Dealing with the media is a big thing, IMO. Keeping things from becoming a circus. Outside of that, pretty much the role that any good manager/boss should take on. Building confidence, trust, respect, unity, and morale. Making sure that none of the egos get too big, etc.

[devildavid]

Dealing with the media is a big thing, IMO. Keeping things from becoming a circus. Outside of that, pretty much the role that any good manager/boss should take on. Building confidence, trust, respect, unity, and morale. Making sure that none of the egos get too big, etc.

 

And creating a culture in which players and coaches live and breathe baseball. Where they share tips and insights about the game, talk about the game, embrace and love the game.

[sk7326]

What off the field stuff are you referring to that is an important role(s) of a manager that adds value or affects team performance?

 

As Kimmi noted, dealing with the media is a big one. Another one is every aspect of playing the right guys. Now clearly there is a part of that which falls under the auspices of on-field. But how do you balance the organizational priorities with the 25 guys in the clubhouse? That stuff is very important. How do you create a clubhouse environment which is about the work? Of course, these are all things which are relevant to real jobs. Management air-dropping Bogaerts into a pennant chase in 2013 is the sort of thing which you entrust to your manager to sort out with the guys who have been chopping wood all season. (obviously this year it is happening again)

[Kimmi]

David and sk, thank you for expanding on the off field aspects. Good posts.

 

I'm guessing there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in regards to off field stuff that we have no clue about.

[a700hitter]

David and sk, thank you for expanding on the off field aspects. Good posts.

 

I'm guessing there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in regards to off field stuff that we have no clue about.

Most of that stuff is taken on by the coaching staff. I am not convinced about the importance of the off-field stuff. The players know how to play the game already. Any additional work that they need is done with the coaches not the manager. Managing egos? PR? Do we need a multi million dollar baseball man for these tasks? Hire a motivational speaker and a press secretary. Most teams already have a press secretary and many teams bring in motivational speakers during the season.

[Bellhorn04]

Most of that stuff is taken on by the coaching staff. I am not convinced about the importance of the off-field stuff. The players know how to play the game already. Any additional work that they need is done with the coaches not the manager. Managing egos? PR? Do we need a multi million dollar baseball man for these tasks? Hire a motivational speaker and a press secretary. Most teams already have a press secretary and many teams bring in motivational speakers during the season.

 

You do come up with some novel complaints.

 

Not too many fans give a crap about or even know how much the managers get paid.

[a700hitter]

You do come up with some novel complaints.

 

Not too many fans give a crap about or even know how much the managers get paid.

LOL!! I really don't care, but people tell me that managers really don't affect on-field performance, the outcome of games or the season. I maintain that they must be hired to do something if they get paid so much money. I am making the argument that they are being paid to maximize the output and record of the team. For that reason, they are subject to criticism, because many times it is their fault. If they are just there to push buttons that don't matter and the lineup doesn't matter and pitching changes don't matter, then you don't need a manager. If that was the way it is, some owner would have figured out that there was a potential to save on salary. A lot of times you have trouble following things, Bells. Edited August 8, 2016 by a700hitter

[mvp 78]

If this team misses the playoffs - girl bye

[devildavid]

Most of that stuff is taken on by the coaching staff. I am not convinced about the importance of the off-field stuff. The players know how to play the game already. Any additional work that they need is done with the coaches not the manager. Managing egos? PR? Do we need a multi million dollar baseball man for these tasks? Hire a motivational speaker and a press secretary. Most teams already have a press secretary and many teams bring in motivational speakers during the season.

 

The manager manages the coaching staff as well as the players. He doesn't delegate everything to the coaches. He is in charge of how they function as a team and keeping them all on the same page. The team is run according to the manager's philosophy. The coaches assist the manager and should follow his philosophy.

 

The manager also works closely with the GM on personnel matters involving both players and coaches.

Edited August 8, 2016 by devildavid

[notin]

Weird. A 72 page thread about Farrell and it's NOT rife with individual moments of someone interjecting a questionable decision (with far more information that the poster) the manager made as proof positive of his incompetence, and then supported with the poster interjecting "I was yelling at my TV at the time!!" in order to prove the criticism wasn't being made solely in hindsight....

[notin]

In general, baseball is not a strategic game.

 

Trying to quantify everything does not always give you better information. Math is a tool with limitations.

 

Maybe, but human's and their observations can be far more limited...

[Bellhorn04]

LOL!! I really don't care, but people tell me that managers really don't affect on-field performance, the outcome of games or the season. I maintain that they must be hired to do something if they get paid so much money. I am making the argument that they are being paid to maximize the output and record of the team. For that reason, they are subject to criticism, because many times it is their fault. If they are just there to push buttons that don't matter and the lineup doesn't matter and pitching changes don't matter, then you don't need a manager. If that was the way it is, some owner would have figured out that there was a potential to save on salary. A lot of times you have trouble following things, Bells.

 

Ah, it just seemed like a good opportunity for a smartass remark, what can I say.

[User Name]

It was.

[Bellhorn04]

Farrell has to be on thin ice. The team was supposed to be all-in on making the playoffs this year, and they are playing their way out of them.

[SoxnCycles]

Farrell has to be on thin ice. The team was supposed to be all-in on making the playoffs this year, and they are playing their way out of them.

 

If he gets fired, it'll be a case of not being able to fire the players.

If it happens, it'll be at the end of the next road trip.

It's a tough schedule, with a makeup game vs the Tribe, two games in Balt, a series vs the Tigers and a series in that dump called the Trop.

[Wade Boggs]

If he gets fired, it'll be a case of not being able to fire the players.

If it happens, it'll be at the end of the next road trip.

It's a tough schedule, with a makeup game vs the Tribe, two games in Balt, a series vs the Tigers and a series in that dump called the Trop.

 

I'm not sure they can wait two and a half weeks to make the move. I see him lasting the year. If they don't make the playoffs. He's gone. If you look at the win/loss 60-50. No. The eyeball test. Yes

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure they can wait two and a half weeks to make the move. I see him lasting the year. If they don't make the playoffs. He's gone. If you look at the win/loss 60-50. No. The eyeball test. Yes

 

If they didn't do it by now, they ween't going to make a change, imo.

 

He'll be gone this offseason unless they get into the playoffs.

[Wade Boggs]

Agree. mvp78. I would have did it before the WC trip.

[Maxbialystock]

While I will defend specific in-game decisions until the cows come home, I do not disagree with the idea that Farrell has overall responsibility for wins and losses and more specifically for whether the team is performing up to its potential. I think right now there is significant doubt they are performing to their potential.

 

I have disagreed endlessly with MVP73, but could not agree more that Farrell should not be back next year if the Sox don't make it to the playoffs.

[Maxbialystock]

Right now the Sox have scored 86 more runs than they have given up--that's the highest margin in the AL and a small factoid that suggests, only that, that Farrell could do better than he has.

[jacksonianmarch]

Farrell had a team with the best record in the AL and has captained them now out of the playoffs. Those who think he'll get fired in season are probably wrong. But if he doesn't make the playoffs, he's going to be canned in the offseason