A Realistic View at 2016

[sk7326]

That's good. That means it's not too late for Farrell to make changes in time to improve future results.

 

SSS alert ...

[moonslav59]

A .342 career OBP is not a great one for a leadoff hitter. And while 24 games is a small sample, the manager also has to make adjustments for this season's results. Mookie does not have a long track record and it remains to be seen what kind of player he becomes. Right now he doesn't seem adept at drawing walks and he strikes out quite frequently. These are not good attributes for a leadoff hitter. It has been suggested that he may be better utilized at a different spot in the batting order. It is something to consider.

 

Sometimes it's nice to have some power in the 1 slot, especially late in games when behind and the bottom of the order is coming up.

Note:

Career OBP as leadoff hitter:

.338 Betts

.336 Ellsbury

[sk7326]

That's good. That means it's not too late for Farrell to make changes in time to improve future results.

 

Too few PAs to conclude anything from stats. He's 23 and their best player. Let him breathe.

[devildavid]

SSS alert ...

 

Yes, I know. 114 plate appearances, about 1/6 of what he will have in total for the season. Should we wait for 125 more as in 2015? At that point last season his OBP was .304.

[sk7326]

Yes, I know. 114 plate appearances, about 1/6 of what he will have in total for the season. Should we wait for 125 more as in 2015? At that point last season his OBP was .304.

 

and it ended at .341. 2014 ended at .368. In other words bet the over.

[devildavid]

Too few PAs to conclude anything from stats. He's 23 and their best player. Let him breathe.

 

He can breathe just as well from any spot in the batting order. I'm not concluding anything about Mookie's ability or potential. I'm just questioning his current utilization and how it potentially affects team performance.

[Emp9]

A .342 career OBP is not a great one for a leadoff hitter. And while 24 games is a small sample, the manager also has to make adjustments for this season's results. Mookie does not have a long track record and it remains to be seen what kind of player he becomes. Right now he doesn't seem adept at drawing walks and he strikes out quite frequently. These are not good attributes for a leadoff hitter. It has been suggested that he may be better utilized at a different spot in the batting order. It is something to consider.

 

Yeah, it's not record breaking by any means.that wasn't my point. But his MLB career isn't 2 seasons old if you add it up. His career is a sss in of of itself, but defining him by a fraction of that is obnoxiously misleading. There may be a time Betts moves off the leadoff spot, but not any time soon. Quite simply he's our best option.

[Bellhorn04]

Over the last 12 games Mookie has a 356 OBP and a 901 OPS. Glad we had him in the leadoff spot those games.

[sk7326]

He can breathe just as well from any spot in the batting order. I'm not concluding anything about Mookie's ability or potential. I'm just questioning his current utilization and how it potentially affects team performance.

 

Okay - let's work this way.

 

Betts has to be in the Top 4 - because he is one of their 4 best hitters, and none of the other hitters make reasonable sustainable cases for inclusion over Betts (Travis Shaw, Holt, Vasquez, Bradley, Ramirez). Could you argue he should be in a position with more RBI potential? Maybe. Given his speed relative to the others, leadoff makes more sense. Aside from Ortiz there is not a terrific amount of on-base differentiation.

[moonslav59]

A .342 career OBP is not a great one for a leadoff hitter. And while 24 games is a small sample, the manager also has to make adjustments for this season's results. Mookie does not have a long track record and it remains to be seen what kind of player he becomes. Right now he doesn't seem adept at drawing walks and he strikes out quite frequently. These are not good attributes for a leadoff hitter. It has been suggested that he may be better utilized at a different spot in the batting order. It is something to consider.

 

I do share the concern, but I have faith in Betts as the season warms up.

Team OBP by leadoff slot in 2016:

 

1) Cubs .471

10) Mets .362

20) Mariners .320

24) Red Sox .296

 

[iortiz]

IMO a 330 OBP player is good enough to leadoff. Of course you also want good baserunning, and if he has decent power even better.

 

Betts is oks leadingoff. JBJ could be a good option If he struggles at some point.

[sk7326]

IMO a 330 OBP player is good enough to leadoff. Of course you also want good baserunning, and if he has decent power even better.

 

Betts is oks leadingoff. JBJ could be a good option If he struggles at some point.

 

Actualy JBJ at 9th is a great option - he goes in so many slumps it is hard to move him up, but it helps prevent Betts from having too many PAs with nobody on.

[S5Dewey]

Oh wallow is a bit of hyperbole. The Red Sox tried both years - they signed top free agents. Indeed a lot of their mistakes were about trying too hard and making pointless roster moves. (2014 in particular) Both years there were paths to winning that didn't work out. Cherington paid for it with his job - but nobody was tanking here. The most important thing Dombrowski has going here is that he is empowered - Cherington was the tip of a collaborative spear. In Detroit he made smart trades, and ultimately his owner wanted to win now now now and he did what his boss wanted. If Henry is committed to a vibrant farm system and building organically then that will happen.

 

Your alignment is certainly possible - but I have a hard time expecting Bradley to be the long term solution here, not because he is not a capable starter, but because he is such an obvious choice to be part of a meaningful trade.

You apparently don't like my use of the word "wallowing". That's ok. Would you have preferred that I use the word "allowed"? I certainly wasn't accusing any player on the 2014 or 2015 teams of "tanking". The players did what they could do and it wasn't enough. My criticism is of Ben for "allowing" the team to finish last in two consecutive years while stockpiling prospects in AAA. I agree with you that the FO tried some things to make the team better. However, when something doesn't work the smart thing to do isn't to retreat into your foxhole and lick your wounds, it's to try something different. We have watched players like Garin Chiccini go from "almost untouchable" to "bust" while in AAA.

]

One never knows how a prospect is going to work out. Travis Shaw is a good example of that. Were it not for Panda, Shaw would be stockpiled in AAA awaiting....what? Being traded? Waiting for him to "age out"? Instead the FO gave him a chance to play rather than making a trade for another third baseman. Thanks, JF & DD!

When a team is faltering the GM shouldn't say, "Well, we tried something and it didn't work so let's see how it plays out". What he should be doing is something else. One of the greatest observations I've ever heard is that "It's a funny thing about people. When they find something that doesn't work they do the same thing only HARDER!" That's what Ben did and I'm critical of him for it.

[Spudboy]

Too few PAs to conclude anything from stats. He's 23 and their best player. Let him breathe.

 

Amen to that Bro.

 

Besides, why f*** up what is not broken now?

[a700hitter]

Fans of Cherington would exonerate him for the last place finishes and the lack of quality pitching throughout the organization. Giving him a pass on big money acquisitions that need owner approval is one thing, but roster management throughout the organization is another. The GM alone is responsible for who gets promoted and for identifying which are trade chips, etc. He is responsible for maximizing the value of the assets in the organization. No one else can be blamed for that.

 

IMO, the big $ acquisitions get approval at the highest level, but the recommendations for those moves usually do not. Certainly, Ben had input, and he either acquiesced or failed to persuade. Either way, he gets an F.

[User Name]

Are we really back to whining about Cherington Ted? I thought that horse was beat so hard it literally disintegrated. We're not changing each other's minds on Ben. It's a futile pursuit.

[a700hitter]

Fans of Cherington would exonerate him for the last place finishes and the lack of quality pitching throughout the organization. Giving him a pass on big money acquisitions that need owner approval is one thing, but roster management throughout the organization is another. The GM alone is responsible for who gets promoted and for identifying which are trade chips, etc. He is responsible for maximizing the value of the assets in the organization. No one else can be blamed for that.

 

IMO, the big $ acquisitions get approval at the highest level, but the recommendations for those moves usually do not. Certainly, Ben had input, and he either acquiesced or failed to persuade. Either way, he gets an F.

LOL! I didn't dig up the dead horse. Sk did that. I just gave him a few more whacks. I agree that it needs to be put to rest, but if others want to resurrect and revise his record, I will stab him a few more times. I have no love for FO types, especially last place finishers.

[moonslav59]

That's what Ben did and I'm critical of him for it.

 

Yeah, maybe Ben should have traded Shaw to avoid the basement 2 years in a row.

[iortiz]

Are we really back to whining about Cherington Ted? I thought that horse was beat so hard it literally disintegrated. We're not changing each other's minds on Ben. It's a futile pursuit.

 

So no one can talk about Cherington anymore? Hahaha

 

Why does it irritate you when someone talks about him? Time to time the topic will come up, live with it or simply ignore it.

[iortiz]

Also, no one is whining. Take it easy.

[iortiz]

LOL! I didn't dig up the dead horse. Sk did that. I just gave him a few more whacks. I agree that it needs to be put to rest, but if others want to resurrect and revise his record, I will stab him a few more times. I have no love for FO types, especially last place finishers.

Anyone can talk about whatever they pleased to, just like U? does with other topics over and over again. Not sure why it irritates him.

 

Funny thing is that he doesn't point out other users that talk about Cherington, like sk in this case.

[User Name]

So no one can talk about Cherington anymore? Hahaha

 

Why does it irritate you when someone talks about him? Time to time the topic will come up, live with it or simply ignore it.

 

Because that horse has been beaten to death. Even if it's to defend him it's annoying. Dude's long gone.

[User Name]

Anyone can talk about whatever they pleased to, just like U? does with other topics over and over again. Not sure why it irritates him.

 

Funny thing is that he doesn't point out other users that talk about Cherington, like sk in this case.

 

Are you trying to start s***? I called out Kimmi on the Cherington talk and it actually spawned the dead horse topics thread. Besides, it's mostly in jest and a700 took it as such. Don't be an ass.

[iortiz]

Because that horse has been beaten to death. Even if it's to defend him it's annoying. Dude's long gone.

 

Yeah but the topic will come up time to time. Like panda. Like Porcello. Like Papelbon. Etc. those are baseball related topics, and the debate will come over and over agian. Let them debate, no big deal.

[iortiz]

Are you trying to start s***? I called out Kimmi on the Cherington talk and it actually spawned the dead horse topics thread. Besides, it's mostly in jest and a700 took it as such. Don't be an ass.

 

No I'm not trying to start anything but the opposite... you are the only one here who is irritating about this. You seem like Cherington defender patrol. As I said, live with it or ignore it, no big deal.

[mvp 78]

Also, no one is whining. Take it easy.

 

EVERYONE is whining.

[mvp 78]

That's what Ben did and I'm critical of him for it.

 

Yeah, maybe Ben should have traded Shaw to avoid the basement 2 years in a row.

 

Travis Shaw? For what; a reliever? He had no trade value the previous 2 years.

[User Name]

No I'm not trying to start anything but the opposite... you are the only one here who is irritating about this. You seem like Cherington defender patrol. As I said, live with it or ignore it, no big deal.

 

Don't tell me what I think. It's not about defending Cherington. Cherington, as a topic, is done. He's gone, se fue, it's over, goodbye.

[moonslav59]

Travis Shaw? For what; a reliever? He had no trade value the previous 2 years.

 

I was being sarcastic. In one breath this poster was complaining about not trading AAA players, so we wouldn't finish in last place 2 years in a row, and then in the next breath was praising how we kept Shaw and gave him a chance to shine.

[mvp 78]

I was being sarcastic. In one breath this poster was complaining about not trading AAA players, so we wouldn't finish in last place 2 years in a row, and then in the next breath was praising how we kept Shaw and gave him a chance to shine.

 

I can't tell who you are talking about since they aren't quoted. I'm all for sarcasm on here. Good job.