Pablo Sandoval

[SoxnCycles]

That's impressive. It'll be even more impressive if that weight plus more is still off come next March, but I'm skeptical.

 

Yup, it's along way to Spring Training. I hope he can keep it up.

[Kimmi]

That's impressive. It'll be even more impressive if that weight plus more is still off come next March, but I'm skeptical.

 

It is fair for anyone to remain skeptical. I remain skeptical and I am his biggest (only?) supporter. He seems to have learned a lesson and is taking his condition very seriously. We'll see.

[Spudboy]

It is fair for anyone to remain skeptical. I remain skeptical and I am his biggest (only?) supporter. He seems to have learned a lesson and is taking his condition very seriously. We'll see.

 

But assuming that he is in"optimal shape" in ST, he is still a mediocre player with declining offensive numbers.

[oldtimer]

We have our starting pitching locked up for two more years when Pomeranz comes off the books. Price can opt out but I just don't see anyone else willing to pay north of $30M he's making now. Pomeranz can be extended if he continues his recent success.

 

I guess Clay can be a back up plan for 2017 and become a trade bait at mid year if our top 5 is healthy and pitching well. Johnson seems to be making progress from his anxiety disorder. Kopech could be a mid season call up in 2018.

 

At this point, we only upgrade our SP through a trade and that won't involve big payroll addition. Sox will get relief by dumping Buchholtz if there's a SP acquisition.

 

Killer B's (assuming Benintendi starts in 2017), Pedey and our core catching group appears to be set for next couple of years. We have numerous candidates for 3B, 1B and DH spots. If DD decides to go all in for Encarnacion, then our offense should be humming irregardless of who is on 1B/3B. (I'm rooting for Moncada and Hanley remains at 1B)). Our depth should be excellent with Young, Holt, Swihart and Shaw.

 

1 Pedroia 2B

2 Xander SS

3 Betts RF

4 Encarnacion DH

5 Hanley 1B

6 Bradley CF

7 Sandy C

8 Benintendi LF

9 Moncada 3B

 

 

Assuming we retain Buchholtz, we gain salary savings from Koji ($9M), Ortiz ($15M) and Tazawa ($3.3) and Hanigan ($3.7), total of $30M. Between Luxury Tax increase and $30M, do we have enough money to rebuild the bullpen and sign Encarnacion?

 

What do you think?

 

If your scenario comes to pass with Encarnacion at DH (I don't favor it), then we should try to unload Hanley and save some (half) of his salary. We have capable first basemen who can field the position and hit well enough with the rest of the lineup so strong. That would be an $11 million saving (less what the replacement 1st baseman would get). Probably another $8 Million.

[Kimmi]

But assuming that he is in"optimal shape" in ST, he is still a mediocre player with declining offensive numbers.

 

Pablo will not and was never going to be worth his contract.

 

Shaw's numbers have been mediocre. Maybe Pablo would be better? Maybe not, but personally, I've always liked the idea of Shaw as more of a super sub type than as a starting player.

 

Regardless, if Pablo can be close to average, he provides depth and flexibility to the team, or he could bring us something in return in a trade. Otherwise, he's a sunk cost.

[Dojji]

Close to average is a real stretcher for a guy who was the worst player in major league baseball in 15 and a DNP this year.

 

I'm just saying, it's one thing to say it's possible but I ain't exactly betting my nonexistent house on it.

[Kimmi]

Close to average is a real stretcher for a guy who was the worst player in major league baseball in 15 and a DNP this year.

 

I'm just saying, it's one thing to say it's possible but I ain't exactly betting my nonexistent house on it.

 

I think it's reasonably possible if Pablo comes into camp in shape. Last year was really a fluky year.

[a700hitter]

I think it's reasonably possible if Pablo comes into camp in shape. Last year was really a fluky year.

Sure. Round is a shape.

[Wade Boggs]

If your scenario comes to pass with Encarnacion at DH (I don't favor it), then we should try to unload Hanley and save some (half) of his salary. We have capable first basemen who can field the position and hit well enough with the rest of the lineup so strong. That would be an $11 million saving (less what the replacement 1st baseman would get). Probably another $8 Million.

 

Hanley who comes off the books in two years still owed 44 million, played a great first base, but maybe in his mind wants to DH. Then you have Panda's albatross contact on top of that... I'll say it .I would rather have Beltran on a one year and club option if I go that route. They still have Castillo and Craig on the books more dead money. I'm hoping Buchholz pitches good down the stretch and pick up his option and trade him for a good prospect ( top5) in a teams farm system. It sounds funny but no great pitchers are out there on the F/A market. The teams get desperate.. IMO Carson Smith remains the biggest loss. When you win nobody notices, when you lose its noticed. I think if Panda is back and playing where does Juan Ed fit in. They just can put the money to better use. Some people might disagree.

[Dojji]

I think it's reasonably possible if Pablo comes into camp in shape. Last year was really a fluky year.

 

Last year is not a fluky year. Flukes happen when you can't ascertain the cause of a shift of performance. We know why Pablo became awful, his lifestyle caught up with him. The only reason it feels fluky is because it caught up with him a few years earlier than it does for a lot of very fat players.

 

Can he get himself turned around? Yeah. But the desire has to go down to his core. It has to be a real and complete lifestyle change. If he goes back to being a social eater he won't change. If he does the just-once routine, he's not going to change. If he thinks for one second that it isn't going to take a LEGENDARY amount of work to fix what a lifetime's steady self-abuse has caused, he's not going to change.

 

We're talking about a complete change of mindset and full devotion to athletics over everything else. Not family, not celebrations, not socialization, not enjoying the fruits of your labors. Athletics and athletics ONLY. That's one of the hardest things to do when you're wealthy and living comfortably. I'm just not sure the character traits are there to really hang a lot on Pablo having the change of heart that will allow him to change his body.

[moonslav59]

Hanley who comes off the books in two years still owed 44 million, played a great first base, but maybe in his mind wants to DH.

 

Not so fast. HanRam may be here for three more years. He has a $22M vesting option for 2019, guaranteed if he has 1,050 plate appearances in 2017-18 and passes club physical after 2018 season.

 

Then you have Panda's albatross contact on top of that... I'll say it .I would rather have Beltran on a one year and club option if I go that route. They still have Castillo and Craig on the books more dead money. I'm hoping Buchholz pitches good down the stretch and pick up his option and trade him for a good prospect ( top5) in a teams farm system. It sounds funny but no great pitchers are out there on the F/A market. The teams get desperate..

 

I'd trade Buch for a decent single A prospect.

 

IMO Carson Smith remains the biggest loss. When you win nobody notices, when you lose its noticed.

 

His loss did hurt in many ways.

 

if Panda is back and playing where does Juan Ed fit in. They just can put the money to better use. Some people might disagree..

 

I think Juan E. will want 5-7 years at mega-bucks. He'll get it.

 

No thanks

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by moonslav59

[Dojji]

I'm open to the idea of Encarnacion, but not sure I want to commit to 7 years of Encarnacion when he's only been an elite hitter for 5.

[Spudboy]

Last year is not a fluky year. Flukes happen when you can't ascertain the cause of a shift of performance. We know why Pablo became awful, his lifestyle caught up with him. The only reason it feels fluky is because it caught up with him a few years earlier than it does for a lot of very fat players.

 

Can he get himself turned around? Yeah. But the desire has to go down to his core. It has to be a real and complete lifestyle change. If he goes back to being a social eater he won't change. If he does the just-once routine, he's not going to change. If he thinks for one second that it isn't going to take a LEGENDARY amount of work to fix what a lifetime's steady self-abuse has caused, he's not going to change.

 

We're talking about a complete change of mindset and full devotion to athletics over everything else. Not family, not celebrations, not socialization, not enjoying the fruits of your labors. Athletics and athletics ONLY. That's one of the hardest things to do when you're wealthy and living comfortably. I'm just not sure the character traits are there to really hang a lot on Pablo having the change of heart that will allow him to change his body.

 

This is an excellent post for reasons that I understand being a fat f*** old man. What Dojji says can be done. I have seen it. I am not at all confident that Pablo has the stuff to make such drastic changes in his life. I am sure that he has pride but courage and discipline don't seem to be in his mix. If I was Pablo and I wanted to make the change, I would have started to lose 50-60 pounds the minute the anesthesia wore off. He needs to lose that much before his body will be able to adjust to being another athlete. The new photos of him are very disappointing. He still has a Dunlap hanging in front of him. Just look at the waistband of his shorts all doubled over. Fat f***s like me know that he is way off from being in shape.

 

I've said this all before and those that do know me here know that I have very much experience in these matters. Playing at or near his current weight will result in failure. He has 58 million reasons as disincentive as well.

 

And for those that may respond by saying "well, he played well at that weight in San Fransisco", you are really going to look stupid when he belly flops chasing a dribbler down the line.

 

Dojji is correct. It ain't happening for the lovable tub of goo.

[moonslav59]

I'm open to the idea of Encarnacion, but not sure I want to commit to 7 years of Encarnacion when he's only been an elite hitter for 5.

 

5 years over .900 is pretty darn impressive, but he's 33. Even a 3 years deal would entail an expected decline, but this is his big pay day. He is going to want something mega-big and mega-long. Some GM will surely offer him 5 years, and then some other GM might go 6 or 7 or even 8 years!

 

As much as I'd love to have E.E. take Papi's spot, I can't see going that large. There's also 2 other big reasons not to sign him:

 

1) Our biggest weakness is pitching not hitting, even with Papi retiring.

2) We already have 3 high-cost players that are probably better suited for DH than any other position: HanRam, Pablo & Young.

 

On top of all this, we have to make room for Moncada at some point real soon. If he sticks at 3B, we'll have a hundred guys, some payed big bucks, vying for the 1B/DH job over the next few years. Why clog it up with a DH-only type player on the wrong side of 33?

 

T Shaw

HanRam

Pablo

Hernandez

S Travis

Holt

Rutledge

Chris Marrero

Jantzen Witte

 

...and eventually Devers, Longhi, Ockimey and Dubon knocking on the door before EE's deal is over.

 

Some of these guys are long shots, granted, but the sheer numbers almost guarantee two to three will do well enough to offset the cost of EE's contract.

 

[moonslav59]

The new photos of him are very disappointing.

 

Not that I enjoy looking at fotos of fat f***s, we down here in Texas we don't have access to this sort of kinky porn. Please provide the link.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Actually, studies show that the more bible thumping a state is, the more porn its citizens look at. Edited August 26, 2016 by mvp 78

[User Name]

Actually, studies showthat the more bibke thumping a state is, the more porn its citizens look at.

 

^This is correct.

[Slasher9]

Actually, reports are that he's lost 22 lbs.

 

awesome. i think i posted this earlier in this thread but his latest IG posts he looks like he is getting in great shape.

[Slasher9]

Yup, it's along way to Spring Training. I hope he can keep it up.

 

unfortunately christmas is between now and spring training. i think he gained like 25 pounds last christmas break.

[mvp 78]

awesome. i think i posted this earlier in this thread but his latest IG posts he looks like he is getting in great shape.

 

I wouldn't say "great shape." I'd say that he looks the way he does when he played for SF, but not those skinny Panda shots from that one ST.

 

My concern is still that Farrell said he visited Panda in January and said he looked great. One month later, he showed up to ST and Farrell was shocked at how much weight he put on. The key is going to be for him to not fall off the wagon and binge for a month.

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo is such a goner that the only reason to even think about him is to try to figure how not to pay all of his remaining salary. There's no place for him on future Red Sox teams. If they can trade him and only pay 80% of what's left to pay they should be satisfied.

[Dojji]

Actually, studies show that the more bible thumping a state is, the more porn its citizens look at.

 

Yeah, bible thumping has nothing to do with actual religion. it's more of a symptom. The more a religion is tolerated the more fanatics it accumulates.

[moonslav59]

Actually, studies show that the more bible thumping a state is, the more porn its citizens look at.

 

You mean thumping a bible on some wetbacks head?

 

These guys are pretenders down here.

[moonslav59]

Pablo is such a goner that the only reason to even think about him is to try to figure how not to pay all of his remaining salary. There's no place for him on future Red Sox teams. If they can trade him and only pay 80% of what's left to pay they should be satisfied.

 

We'll need him to show some semblance of being a decent ball player to have any chance to recoup a fraction of his remaining contractual cost. That means he has to play, at least in spring training. We can use Shaw at 1B and HanRam at DH to create more playing time at 3B for Moncada and Pablo.

 

I have very little hope Pablo can be productive again, but there is still a chance. If he does well, then there are a number of ways he could have a "place" on the team:

 

1) Injury to corner IF'er or DH.

2) Moncada needs more time to learn 3B and starts 2017 in AAA.

3) Shaw plays 1B and HanRam DHs. (Note: Shaw has the best UZR/150 at 1B over the past 2 years combined.)

4) Shaw reverts to his low .700 OPS (or worse) he had in AAA. He becomes a bench or platoon player.

5) We trade HanRam.

6) HanRam stinks like he did in 2015.

7) Pablo shows up in good shape, plays hard and does better than Shaw, Moncada and/or HanRam. (Note: he used to be a plus defender, he's only 30 and he can at least be a productive platoon player vs RHPs only- not likely, but surely possible.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, bible thumping has nothing to do with actual religion. it's more of a symptom. The more a religion is tolerated the more fanatics it accumulates.

 

I'm fine with them thumping their bibles, I just wanted to point out that stating "we don't get that kinky porn down here" was highly inaccurate as they probably get an extra helping of it.

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo can show up in good shape and play hard. The problem is that he'll be 2 years older than the last time he played good and he didn't play at all last year. So he's a player already in decline who is now also coated in rust.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm fine with them thumping their bibles, I just wanted to point out that stating "we don't get that kinky porn down here" was highly inaccurate as they probably get an extra helping of it.

 

If you have a computer and internet access you have a wonderworld of porn at your fingertips.

[mvp 78]

If you have a computer and internet access you have a wonderworld of porn at your fingertips.

 

What? Is this true?!?!?!?

[Slasher9]

now that moncada has to transition to LF, 3b in 2017 is wide open for the Butterball. shaw has not staken his claim on anything.

[Slasher9]

What? Is this true?!?!?!?

 

do you still use VHS?

redtube. but dont let your wife see. unless she is cool with that. and dont forget to erase your history. unless she's cool with that.