Travis Shaw

[Dojji]

I'm concerned that we may be counting on Shaw for too much. The last thing we need is for him to be given the job, come off to a slow start and need to go back to Sandoval.

 

Whether or not Shaw as a 3b in college he hasn't had significant reps at the position in half a decade, and we'd be putting him back at that position, full time, at the highest level of the sport. There's a risk here that I wish people were recognizing. I don't think it's a huge risk, but I wonder how much of this rush to put Shaw on the job is because of faith in Shaw, and how much is because of dislike of Sandoval. If we didn't hate our incumbent 3B the risks involved in running with Shaw would be making a lot more people nervous right now.

[mvp 78]

I'm concerned that we may be counting on Shaw for too much. The last thing we need is for him to be given the job, come off to a slow start and need to go back to Sandoval.

 

Whether or not Shaw as a 3b in college he hasn't had significant reps at the position in half a decade, and we'd be putting him back at that position, full time, at the highest level of the sport. There's a risk here that I wish people were recognizing. I don't think it's a huge risk, but I wonder how much of this rush to put Shaw on the job is because of faith in Shaw, and how much is because of dislike of Sandoval. If we didn't hate our incumbent 3B the risks involved in running with Shaw would be making a lot more people nervous right now.

 

Shaw played well last year, Sandoval did not.

 

Shaw has excelled in ST this year, Sandoval has continued to be underwhelming.

 

Would it be a mistake to start Shaw on opening day? It could be.

 

Would it be a mistake to start Sandoval on opening day? It could be.

 

People just prefer the guys who try harder. And it just so happens that the guy who is trying harder, is also playing better in every phase of the game.

[cp176]

I'm concerned that we may be counting on Shaw for too much. The last thing we need is for him to be given the job, come off to a slow start and need to go back to Sandoval.

 

Whether or not Shaw as a 3b in college he hasn't had significant reps at the position in half a decade, and we'd be putting him back at that position, full time, at the highest level of the sport. There's a risk here that I wish people were recognizing. I don't think it's a huge risk, but I wonder how much of this rush to put Shaw on the job is because of faith in Shaw, and how much is because of dislike of Sandoval. If we didn't hate our incumbent 3B the risks involved in running with Shaw would be making a lot more people nervous right now.

 

I don't think that the people who count are disillusioned over this at all. I think everybody sees the potential risks as well as potential upsides. I also don't think in situations like this you operate from fear of what might be either. Maybe there is a slightly different way of looking at things here. Playing your best players just doesn't seem to be a thought that is too outlandish.

[Spudboy]

I still don't see any risk in starting Shaw at third base.

 

I don't expect him to continue to his close to .500. But I do expect him to duplicate what I saw last year. If he does not do that but rather stinks up the place then go to another player.

 

Deliberately starting a player that is performing at a significantly lower level than someone on the bench is just plainly stupid.

 

Always play with the strongest hand. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

[Bellhorn04]

OPS this spring:

 

Sandoval .864

Ortiz .333

 

Conclusion: Ortiz should retire immediately and Sandoval will be our DH this year.

[User Name]

Sandoval really needs to improve his D though. He's been a stone statue. The bat, as I said before, has woken up though.

[cp176]

OPS this spring:

 

Sandoval .864

Ortiz .333

 

Conclusion: Ortiz should retire immediately and Sandoval will be our DH this year.

 

You know what. Next year at this time the dh might very well be the right place for Sandoval. We shall see.

[cp176]

Sandoval really needs to improve his D though. He's been a stone statue. The bat, as I said before, has woken up though.

 

 

The play he made toward the line yesterday sounded better than it looked. He made the play and it was a good one but it is quite possible that a third baseman with more mobility might have made that play standing. I think that he is working hard but bulk is going to limit his mobility for sure. He still has value but he has put himself in tough spot.

[jung]

The right place for Pablo next year is some other city.

[Kimmi]

Can we throw the brakes just a little bit on the Shaw hype? I agree he's hitting well this Spring and hit well last fall, but I think it's a fallacy to pretend he's going to solve all the problems at third base.

 

One of the problems with a player like Sandoval who the fans have no faith in, is that it's easy to fall into the trap of ignoring the faults in the guy who is slated to replace the ones you don't like. Travis Shaw had been groomed as a 1b prospect before this year, he has *very little experience at third base at any level.* Through his career in the minors Shaw averaged less than 30 games a year at that position. He has played more than three times as many games in the minors at first than at third. Before last year third base was largely viewed as a position he should play to advance his athleticism before his move to first base. it's not an exaggeration to say that any plan to keep Shaw at third base as more than a show-me or bench role originated this Spring. It has never been his full time position -- EVER.

 

We have no idea how well Shaw will stand the rigors of third base physically, and whether his body can hold up to the strain of every day at the most athletic corner position. That's a test Kevin Youkilis, who had far more experience at 3B both in the minors and in the majors, and was an excellent part time third basemen failed when the team tried to stretch him out to fulltime 3B. We have no idea how good he will be defensively if he plays 3B every day, or if he can even be trusted to do so. We also have no idea whether the strain of playing 3b every day might impact his bat. None of this do we know, and all of these are very important questions.

 

I think it would be far far better if Pablo turned out to be adequate at the position on both sides of the ball, and Shaw remained in the bench role he's ideally suited for, able to spot someone part time at 3B, part time at 1B, and part time at other positions. We know he can handle that. He has never, not even in the minors, proven he can handle more than that.

 

Props to you Dojii, for being able to think rationally about this, rather than letting your emotions fuel your opinions. It would be in the team's best interest to give Pablo a fair chance to sink or swim, and hope that he swims. The team will be better off if Pablo can rebound and Shaw can remain a supersub. Between 1B, 3B, and LF, Shaw will get get plenty of ABs.

[Kimmi]

People just prefer the guys who try harder. And it just so happens that the guy who is trying harder, is also playing better in every phase of the game.

 

And how do you know that Shaw is trying harder?

[a700hitter]

And how do you know that Shaw is trying harder?

He ate less.

[mvp 78]

And how do you know that Shaw is trying harder?

 

He's not a slob of a human being.

[User Name]

Props to you Dojii, for being able to think rationally about this, rather than letting your emotions fuel your opinions. It would be in the team's best interest to give Pablo a fair chance to sink or swim, and hope that he swims. The team will be better off if Pablo can rebound and Shaw can remain a supersub. Between 1B, 3B, and LF, Shaw will get get plenty of ABs.

 

It's not emotion, it's production. You can't give away games because Pablo can't handle the position defensively. He's being given the chance to prove that he can in ST, and he's failing miserable. The swing seems to be there, but the consensus is that he's looking terrible defensively. I think you're the one looking at all of this with an emotional viewpoint. Most of us just want the guy who can catch and hit the ball playing.

[jung]

Just announced...the one or two diving play Pablo has managed to make this ST....he has managed to......injure himself...currently suffering back spasms.....a 3rd baseman making a diving play...gee they never have those at 3rd.....please...get this guy outta' here please! I don't even care what they pay him anymore. Every time Pablo appears at 3rd it is going to make it harder on Hanley....just get Pablo outta' here.

[Elktonnick]

Just announced...the one or two diving play Pablo has managed to make this ST....he has managed to......injure himself...currently suffering back spasms.....a 3rd baseman making a diving play...gee they never have those at 3rd.....please...get this guy outta' here please! I don't even care what they pay him anymore. Every time Pablo appears at 3rd it is going to make it harder on Hanley....just get Pablo outta' here.

I am still in FT Myers that must have been the cause of the slight rumble we all felt.

[Dojji]

The timing for pablo is incredibly bad. It looks very much like our starting 3B is Travis Shaw, at least to start the year.

[a700hitter]

The timing for pablo is incredibly bad. It looks very much like our starting 3B is Travis Shaw, at least to start the year.

Maybe this will motivate Pablo.

[mvp 78]

Damn, roster crunch...

[Kimmi]

It's not emotion, it's production. You can't give away games because Pablo can't handle the position defensively. He's being given the chance to prove that he can in ST, and he's failing miserable. The swing seems to be there, but the consensus is that he's looking terrible defensively. I think you're the one looking at all of this with an emotional viewpoint. Most of us just want the guy who can catch and hit the ball playing.

 

You should know better than anyone that you can't take ST stats at face value. There are any number of things that Pablo could have been working on defensively.

 

People can say that they are pulling for Pablo, that they don't hate Pablo, and that they are not making judgments on Pablo's character based on the way he looks all they want, but virtually every post made about Pablo says otherwise.

 

Pablo has not been given a fair chance this season. That's the bottom line.

[Kimmi]

Maybe this will motivate Pablo.

 

And how do you know that he was not motivated before? I'll answer that for you. You don't.

[Kimmi]

Damn, roster crunch...

 

It'll burn you every time.

[a700hitter]

And how do you know that he was not motivated before? I'll answer that for you. You don't.

Let me clarify my remark. Maybe it will motivate him to lose weight.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Shaw comes up and lights the world aflame, you might see a Pablo deal away on the cheap. He has all the makings of a malcontent should he not be the starter

[Elktonnick]

You should know better than anyone that you can't take ST stats at face value. There are any number of things that Pablo could have been working on defensively.

 

People can say that they are pulling for Pablo, that they don't hate Pablo, and that they are not making judgments on Pablo's character based on the way he looks all they want, but virtually every post made about Pablo says otherwise.

 

Pablo has not been given a fair chance this season. That's the bottom line.

 

That last line is ********! Sandoval has been given every opportunity. As of right now he is simply being outplayed for the position. If he were to actually keep the job with Travis Shaw having better production then it would be Shaw who hadn't been given a fair chance. Baseball should be the most Darwinian of sports. Survival of the fittest is what is a fair chance.

[SoxHop]

The thing is most likely Shaw at his best was Sandoval's average over the last half a decade, minus last year. I think some people here think Sandoval is kaput, and some here think he can regain some of what he was before last year. To me the odds are about 50/50, but I'd halve to go with Pablo, but it's probably because I can't imagine a player just tanking so bad within a year. But if we are now seeing injuries due to physical conditioning, that is something else.

 

I'm kind of glad Pablo got injured . It makes the decision that much easier. And even though I think the team would be better off with Pablo turning it around, I'd much rather see Shaw at third in the hopes he keeps on hitting.

 

I know little about Shaw's defense. But from last year he moved well for a very big guy. But he still moved like a very big guy, and seemed much more suited for first to me.

[a700hitter]

The thing is most likely Shaw at his best was Sandoval's average over the last half a decade, minus last year. I think some people here think Sandoval is kaput, and some here think he can regain some of what he was before last year. To me the odds are about 50/50, but I'd halve to go with Pablo, but it's probably because I can't imagine a player just tanking so bad within a year. But if we are now seeing injuries due to physical conditioning, that is something else.

 

I'm kind of glad Pablo got injured . It makes the decision that much easier. And even though I think the team would be better off with Pablo turning it around, I'd much rather see Shaw at third in the hopes he keeps on hitting.

 

I know little about Shaw's defense. But from last year he moved well for a very big guy. But he still moved like a very big guy, and seemed much more suited for first to me.

I don't think Pablo ever had Shaw's power.

[SoxHop]

I don't think Pablo ever had Shaw's power.

 

He did. But back about 6 years.

 

Pablo's stats for even the year 2014 are pretty good. It's just that 2015 year that is horrendous. And the absolute drop off from the amazing player he was 6 years ago which is making our heads spin why we picked him up and or so many years.

 

Shaw went absolutely crazy for once month last year batting, then fell back to average the last month of the season. Yes, he's going crazy in spring.

 

Maybe Shaw has figured something out, maybe Pablo has lost it.

[SoxHop]

Actually, in AAA his power was just about in the same range as Pablo in the last 5 years.

[a700hitter]

He did. But back about 6 years.

 

Pablo's stats for even the year 2014 are pretty good. It's just that 2015 year that is horrendous. And the absolute drop off from the amazing player he was 6 years ago which is making our heads spin why we picked him up and or so many years.

 

Shaw went absolutely crazy for once month last year batting, then fell back to average the last month of the season. Yes, he's going crazy in spring.

 

Maybe Shaw has figured something out, maybe Pablo has lost it.

Shaw is just bigger and stronger.