Travis Shaw

[jung]

You are the one making a mountain out of a mole hill! OMG what a s***** pun!!! Sorry about that. BTW If you haven't seen it look at the Feb photo of Sandoval reporting. He was as Bernie Sanders would ay YUGE!

!!

 

And he was at the end of last year as well. He GAINED in season last year..always has gained in season. Simply did not gain as much during the 2014 season. He was in much much worse shape when they finally shut him down at the end of the 2015 season than when he started the 2015 season. The only difference really in Pablo now is that he is starting seasons heavier than ever and is also why it is to some extent significant. He is going INTO what has historically for him been his heavy weight gain part of the year.

 

But if he finished around 290 which seems entirely reasonable then it stands to reason that he did not gain more than maybe 20 lbs in the off season to something like 310. There is some significance there in that he is now apparently no longer losing weight AT ANY TIME in the year.

 

As Lou Merlone said recently, "Pablo gains weight during the season. If he is with the team but not playing, he might gain 20 lbs in April".

 

These guys have per diems plus boatloads of cash and travel IN SEASON to cities they have gone back to year after year. They have favorite night spots, favorite restaurants in all these places. If you are a guy with Pablo's particular issue is it any surprise that the baseball season itself would be his biggest problem?

 

His brother is apparently a chef and cooks for him...probably full time in the off season when he is not traveling with a baseball team. Actually I would be feeling betrayed if I were the brother. Pablo probably eats the brother's meals as appetizers for the main course out on the town in season.

Edited March 27, 2016 by jung

[Elktonnick]

And he was at the end of last year as well. He GAINED in season last year..always has gained in season. Simply did not gain as much during the 2014 season. He was in much much worse shape when they finally shut him down at the end of the 2015 season than when he started the 2015 season. The only difference really in Pablo now is that he is starting seasons heavier than ever and is also why it is to some extent significant. He is going INTO what has historically for him been his heavy weight gain part of the year.

 

But if he finished around 290 which seems entirely reasonable then it stands to reason that he did not gain more than maybe 20 lbs in the off season to something like 310. There is some significance there in that he is now apparently no longer losing weight AT ANY TIME in the year.

 

As Lou Merlone said said recently, "Pablo gains weight during the season. If he is with the team but not playing, he might gain 20 lbs in April".

 

These guys have per diems plus boatloads of cash and travel IN SEASON to cities they have gone back to year after year. They have favorite night spots, favorite restaurants in all these places. If you are a guy with Pablo's particular issue is it any surprise that the baseball season itself would be his biggest problem?

 

His brother is apparently a chef and cooks for him...probably full time in the off season when he is not traveling with a baseball team. Actually I would be feeling betrayed if I were the brother. Pablo probably eats the brother's meals as appetizers for the main course out on the town in season.

Actually Sandoval's problem is his height. He needs to a get taller!!, a lot taller!!!, a real lot taller!!

[a700hitter]

Seriously. Of course I'm speculating, as is everyone here. Hanley may be the dumbest guy in the world for all I know, but I'm not going to accuse him of being stupid because I don't like the way he looks or plays. I'm willing to give Hanley and Pablo the benefit of the doubt as to why they aren't focused or why they're fat, rather than accusing them of having bad or weak characters based on the way they look.

You have noted that you worry about Hanley's lack of focus as have others. None of us know why he appears unfocused. Is he lazy? Maybe. Is he stupid? Maybe. You seem to think he can't help it...whatever that means. Maybe you think he is a victim of forces beyond his control so you can feel that you are giving him a fair shake. As for me, I'd rather my poor performance be the result of me being lazy rather than being stupid or neurologically defective. I can fix lazy. You get tiresome with your whining about the meanies who are attacking his character. No one is attacking his character. They are commenting on how he plays the game. If he doesn't run after balls that get by him, he is just not trying hard, and he has done that plenty of times in his career. Whether it is because he is lazy or mentally defective, it doesn't matter. That is just not playing at full effort. Edited March 27, 2016 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

Actually Sandoval's problem is his height. He needs to a get taller!!, a lot taller!!!, a real lot taller!!

I think Buddy Hackett used to use that line. LOL!!!

[jacksonianmarch]

Saying that Pablo is fat and that he might not able to improve defensively because of his weight is fair. That is not character assassination, although the fat jokes really are cruel.

 

The judgments made about the type of person he is based on the way he looks is character assassination. Here are some of the accusations I'm talking about:

 

1. Pablo is lazy.

2. Pablo isn't trying very hard.

3. Pablo doesn't care.

4. Pablo is unprofessional.

5. Pablo is giving his teammates and the fans the finger.

6. Pablo has a terrible work ethic.

7. Pablo only cares about the money he's making.

8. Pablo will be a clubhouse cancer.

 

There is no proof behind any of those statements. They are pure speculation based on Pablo's appearance.

 

You're kidding, right? He's a professional athlete who cannot stay away from the buffet table. He's a professional athlete who's body habits is now obstructing his capability on the field. That is the definition of lazy!

[Kimmi]

Like I said earlier he came into camp heavier then he left, it was all over Fort Myers. Even if you don't believe that, published photos in the Boston papers clearly show him bigger then he was at the end of last year.

 

You do not know that Pablo is heavier than when he left last season. That is your perception. Your eyes are seeing what you want them to see.

 

I saw the published photos. They were not flattering. But I am not convinced that Pablo came to camp heavier than he left last season.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi ,That is another load of horse s***. You refuse to accept anything as proof except Pablo Sandoval admitting that he lets himself go because of his contract. The facts speak for themselves. He lost weight in 2014 before he got his contract. He hasn't since. You like to denouce everyone as prejudiced and judgmental when they don't agree with your point of view but you won't accept the clear facts that didn't get himself in shape to be the best player he could be.

 

FTR, I do not post crap, horse or otherwise.

 

I am not saying that Pablo was not lazy. He could very just be a big fat lazy slob who doesn't care about anything but food. I'm just not going to crucify him based on speculation and perception. We already went through all of this with Lackey.

 

Do you make the same assumptions about every fat person you see?

[Kimmi]

There's no assumption. It's a logical conclusion based on the available fact. He essentially told everyone to f*** themselves as soon as they questioned him on his obvious weight gain, and the "did or didn't the team tell him to lose weight" SNAFU. Let's not try to complicate what's simple.

 

On the contrary UN. There is a lot of assumption going into yours and everyone else's opinions of him.

[Kimmi]

You have noted that you worry about Hanley's lack of focus as have others. None of us know why he appears unfocused. Is he lazy? Maybe. Is he stupid? Maybe. You seem to think he can't help it...whatever that means. Maybe you think he is a victim of forces beyond his control so you can feel that you are giving him a fair shake. As for me, I'd rather my poor performance be the result of me being lazy rather than being stupid or neurologically defective. I can fix lazy. You get tiresome with your whining about the meanies who are attacking his character. No one is attacking his character. They are commenting on how he plays the game. If he doesn't run after balls that get by him, he is just not trying hard, and he has done that plenty of times in his career. Whether it is because he is lazy or mentally defective, it doesn't matter. That is just not playing at full effort.

 

Simple solution to my tiresome and whiny posts. Don't read them.

[Kimmi]

Serious question to everyone who wants Shaw to be our starting 3B:

 

Is the team better off having Pablo playing a solid 3B (2012, 2013, or 2014 numbers) and Shaw being a supersub, where he can back up multiple positions, pinch hit, possibly be a late inning defensive replacement, and pinch run, or having Shaw playing a solid 3B and having Pablo on the bench, where he can spell Shaw occasionally at 3B but really can't do anything else?

 

I understand that Pablo may not be able to revert to previous years' numbers (and Shaw might not reach that level either), but I strongly believe that it's in the team's best interest to give him a chance to do so. The team is better off if he can.

 

And hmmm.

 

Not one person answered my question.

 

That's because you all know that I'm right.

[mvp 78]

Pablo isn't 2014 Pablo anymore. He's oldrr and fatter. The mileage on his body has taken its toll. He looks like avsolute garbage on the field. He'll be given the chance to start, but when he fails, I'm expecting to hear a lot of excuse making for it.

[Elktonnick]

You do not know that Pablo is heavier than when he left last season. That is your perception. Your eyes are seeing what you want them to see.

 

I saw the published photos. They were not flattering. But I am not convinced that Pablo came to camp heavier than he left last season.

 

It also is the opinion of the guys who work the games. I was told this by an usher who has worked every game in ST for the last ten years and who played ball on the Cape with my father in law back in the day. So he is a man whom I trust. He said that Sandoval weighed in 20lbs heavier then last year. He said that Sandoval was unable to pick up a slow roller because he was too fat. Now I didn't interrogate the man and demand proof ( as you would have) because he is in a better position than either you or I to have such information and has no reason to be making up such a story.

 

Moreover, I was standing very close to Sandoval on the field last year. (When you take the tour you get to go on the field behind the batting cage during BP I was less then 5 yds from the man) This year I was nearly as close. He was clearly fatter.

 

 

Now you can believe what you want. However, you have no logical basis and no evidence to substantiate your belief other then your wishful thinking which seems to dominant your thought process. For all I know you believe in the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy. But there is no denying the salient fact Sandoval came into camp too fat to be an effective defensive 3rd baseman.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Elktonnick

[User Name]

On the contrary UN. There is a lot of assumption going into yours and everyone else's opinions of him.

 

Right, because in the real world, if I work a job that requires physical activity and I get so fat that I can't perform, when my employer tells me to drop the weight and I actually get fatter, they are going to assume that it's just perception instead of firing my ass. Come join the rest of us in reality.

 

He can barely move, and that's not assumption, it's a fact. Even in your defense of him you explain that B Butter is trying to find ways to combat his declining range. In what universe does a guy in the prime of his career decline precipitously in his defensive ability without any injury whatsoever but poor conditioning, and it's not a conditioning issue?

 

It's not an assault on his character, it is common sense. Even worse, dude comes in and immediately lashes at the media that he "has nothing to prove"....f***er, you have EVERYTHING to prove.

 

Look at Hanley. Why do you think we agree on his defense? They told him to move to LF....done. Told him to drop weight.....done. Says all the right things, puts in the work. Pablo has done none of those things. He has a s***** attitude, and needs a wake up call.

[Elktonnick]

FTR, I do not post crap, horse or otherwise.

 

I am not saying that Pablo was not lazy. He could very just be a big fat lazy slob who doesn't care about anything but food. I'm just not going to crucify him based on speculation and perception. We already went through all of this with Lackey.

 

Do you make the same assumptions about every fat person you see?

 

Only the one I see in the mirror every morning BTW Lackey is still a despicable human being. Being a good pitcher doesn't change that fact.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Elktonnick

[Elktonnick]

And hmmm.

 

Not one person answered my question.

 

That's because you all know that I'm right.

Again wishful think. Pablo isn't going to be anywhere near that guy unless he gets an attitude adjustment and loses a ton of weight. So far I see no indication that he is ready to do what he has to do.

[a700hitter]

And hmmm.

 

Not one person answered my question.

 

That's because you all know that I'm right.

I answered your question.

[Spudboy]

And hmmm.

 

Not one person answered my question.

 

That's because you all know that I'm right.

 

The team is almost always better when the players who are performing best are on the field. Logic.

[Spudboy]

Right, because in the real world, if I work a job that requires physical activity and I get so fat that I can't perform, when my employer tells me to drop the weight and I actually get fatter, they are going to assume that it's just perception instead of firing my ass. Come join the rest of us in reality.

 

He can barely move, and that's not assumption, it's a fact. Even in your defense of him you explain that B Butter is trying to find ways to combat his declining range. In what universe does a guy in the prime of his career decline precipitously in his defensive ability without any injury whatsoever but poor conditioning, and it's not a conditioning issue?

 

It's not an assault on his character, it is common sense. Even worse, dude comes in and immediately lashes at the media that he "has nothing to prove"....f***er, you have EVERYTHING to prove.

 

Look at Hanley. Why do you think we agree on his defense? They told him to move to LF....done. Told him to drop weight.....done. Says all the right things, puts in the work. Pablo has done none of those things. He has a s***** attitude, and needs a wake up call.

 

I endorse this post.

[Bellhorn04]

The team is almost always better when the players who are performing best are on the field. Logic.

 

But Spud, Pablo has hit better than Ortiz this spring. Should Pablo replace Ortiz as DH? No. Because we know David's history and that he doesn't give a crap about spring games. It's never quite as simple as saying 'whoever's doing better right now plays!'

[a700hitter]

You do not know that Pablo is heavier than when he left last season. That is your perception. Your eyes are seeing what you want them to see.

 

I saw the published photos. They were not flattering. But I am not convinced that Pablo came to camp heavier than he left last season.

There isn't a person or source denying that he came to camp heavier this year than last year. No one is even attempting to question that. The only lame attempt was the 17% BMI story which attempted to make us believe that the added weight is muscle. LOL!! The story about his terrible condition is all over baseball, not just at JetBlue. You are the only one who is saying that it is our lying eyes. Did he gain 20 lbs exactly? Who knows, but one thing that is evident to anyone with eyes is that he is too fat. My non-sports-minded friend who attended Spring games with me asked, "isn't he a little fat to be a ballplayer?" There was no bias there. My friend doesn't even know Sandoval's name. I guess it was just his lying eyes.

[mvp 78]

But Spud, Pablo has hit better than Ortiz this spring. Should Pablo replace Ortiz as DH? No. Because we know David's history and that he doesn't give a crap about spring games. It's never quite as simple as saying 'whoever's doing better right now plays!'

Except that Shaw outperformed Pablo last year too. This isn't a ST aberration. Pablo was the worst everyday player in the league last year and now his defense looks even worse.

 

Ortiz has an almost 15 year track record of being one of the greatest hitters in the game. Even when Pablo was at his best, he was simply above average.

[a700hitter]

Even when Pablo was at his best, he was simply above average.

This is where I stand on the issue. Sandoval's upside (which I believe is in the past) is just not big enough to justify giving him the position without earning it in Spring Training.

[Spudboy]

Hmm. If you gave me a choice of betting on Pablo or Ortiz to perform adequately in 2016 I would certainly go with Ortiz because of his history or production in the regular seasons and playoffs. Even when he has his slumps I have learned that he will almost certainly bounce back to normal.

 

Pablo, on the other hand, has had 4 consecutive years of gradual decline offensively including last year where he sunk to career lows on both sides of the ball. This year he has done close to nothing offensively and has looked dreadful in the field.

 

Could Pablo play better on both sides of the ball? My guess is that he can. However, I believe that in his current condition the likelihood of that happening is low. I'd like to see him succeed, but I just do not see that happening right now.

 

I hope that I have answered your question.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Spudboy

[a700hitter]

Hmm. If you gave me a choice of betting on Pablo of Ortiz to perform adequately in 2016 I would certainly go with Ortiz because of his history or production in the regular seasons and playoffs. Even when he has his slumps I have learned that he will almost certainly bounce back to normal.

 

Pablo, on the other hand, has had 4 consecutive years of gradual decline offensively including last year where he sunk to career lows on both sides of the ball. This year he has done close to nothing offensively and has looked dreadful in the field.

 

Could Pablo play better on both sides of the ball? My guess is that he can. However, I believe that in his current condition the likelihood of that happening is low. I'd like to see him succeed, but I just do not see that happening right now.

 

I hope that I have answered your question.

Pete, I agree with everything in your post, except that I would term Pablo's 4 year decline as consistent rather than gradual decline.

[User Name]

But Spud, Pablo has hit better than Ortiz this spring. Should Pablo replace Ortiz as DH? No. Because we know David's history and that he doesn't give a crap about spring games. It's never quite as simple as saying 'whoever's doing better right now plays!'

 

Apples to oranges comparison. The problem here isn't Pablo's offense, it's his defense. If he was playing well defensively, your argument would hold water, but it doesn't because playing 3B requires both offensive and defensive production. Maybe a better comparison would be Hanley- Travis, where the rookie outplayed the veteran, but the veteran is firmly entrenched because of experience, contract, etc.

 

The point is that Pablo is out of shape. He has to drop the weight to be effective. There's a happy medium where he's plump and exhibits better power and enough range defensively, but he's way past that.

[Bellhorn04]

Apples to oranges comparison. The problem here isn't Pablo's offense, it's his defense.

 

Yeesh, that's exactly why I talked about him replacing Ortiz at DH. Clear communication on the internet is f***ing hopeless sometimes.

[Dojji]

Even a DH has to keep himself in some kind of shape.

 

I'm sorry Kimmi but it's time to let the Pablo thing go. That back injury on an ordinary baseball play is tied directly to his weight and it just handed Travis Shaw the job whether he's ready or not. Like it or not, Pablo Sandoval just ate his way out of a starting job, all that remains to be seen is if he can work hard and get himself into some kind of shape and be able to retake the job when Shaw is at a low point. It's a done deal that Shaw is going to break camp as our opening day third baseman, and that is exactly Pablo's fault for being so badly out of condition.

 

At this point, when Farrell announced that third base would be a competition it is clear that Pablo wasn't physically ready to compete for the job and when he tried to step it up, he got hurt, which is what happens when you're not ready for a physical competition and you compete anyway.

 

Thank God Shaw has been playing well this spring and gave us a second option, still worried about his defense but he's the only option we have right now so it's time to get behind him and just hope this works.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Dojji

[jung]

Yeesh, that's exactly why I talked about him replacing Ortiz at DH. Clear communication on the internet is f***ing hopeless sometimes.

 

Defense may be Pablo's problem. But he is no DH, certainly not for the Sox. He certainly would be no replacement for Ortiz. He possesses nothing like Ortiz power and based on Abraham's numbers appears to run the bases worse than Ortiz as incredible as that might seem. So what do you do with a guy that is basically a singles hitter that can't run worth beans when he gets on base?

 

I would be thinking about sticking to the plan for DH until and if Hanley proves he simply does not have the potential as a hitter any longer to be a DH for this team when the time comes.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm sorry Kimmi but it's time to let the Pablo thing go. That back injury on an ordinary baseball play is tied directly to his weight and it just handed Travis Shaw the job whether he's ready or not. Like it or not, Pablo Sandoval just ate his way out of a starting job, all that remains to be seen is if he can work hard and get himself into some kind of shape and be able to retake the job when Shaw is at a low point. It's a done deal that Shaw is going to break camp as our opening day third baseman, and that is exactly Pablo's fault for being so badly out of condition.

 

The fact that Pablo got hurt on an ordinary baseball play doesn't mean much. Guys in great shape get hurt on ordinary plays all the time.

 

According to Bradford, Pablo will be participating in all drills today and plans to play Tuesday. Whether the team has the same plan is another story. But this may not be decided just yet.

[a700hitter]

Pete, could you imagine if Dick Williams were Sandoval's manager? LOL!! He would put him in a rubber fat suit and bench him until he dropped 20 lbs. And he would rip him worse than anything we are doing here.