Red Sox Outfield 2016

[Spudboy]

Jordan's? They'd at least know it from the NESN coverage.

 

Or Bob's!

[a700hitter]

Or Bob's!

I hate those commercials.

[jung]

IMO, barring several injuries the Sox have taken last place off the table for 2016. They would have to play poorly enough to pass the O's on the downside and I just don't think that possible again barring multiple injuries to the Sox and total health by the O's.

 

I hope Buck has checked his health insurance benefits. Now that John is out of the woods hopefully, Buck is the guy most likely to blow out a gasket while watching his team play.

[mvp 78]

Or Bob's!

 

GTFO.

 

In our area it goes: Jordan's > Cardi's > Bernie and Phyll's > Bob's. Bob's is the Building 19 3/4's of furniture stores.

[mvp 78]

I hate those commercials.

 

What isn't to love about a commercial featuring a creepy anorexic guy that is sometimes in claymation? He is just a rip off of Dean's Home Furniture anyway. You think you'll like your purchase after you bring it home? "I doubt it."

[User Name]

There is no real clogging of the roster. The fact is that Panda-Shaw-Castillo-Holt-Young were going to be the five guys occupying those positions leaving camp. (assuming 12 pitchers, which i always thought was going to be the case) Now the identities of the starters vs the bench guys changed - and credit to Farrell for actually making a merit based decision and not playing dollar signs. I think the LF deal is fairly open - Castillo has not been shut out of anything. Heck if Castillo plays well, Young might be deployed more as a platoon partner with Bradley.

 

All of these decisions can be changed - and it's not like the roster would have been deployed differently. Shaw would have been backing up 1B/3B. Sandoval will be backing up ... now it is embarassing that he is being compensated so lavishly for this job, but that is not my problem.

 

I take it back, Hanley's not my spirit animal, you are.

[Spudboy]

I hate those commercials.

 

I wouldn't mind giving that MILF Cathy a poke.

[mvp 78]

I take it back, Hanley's not my spirit animal, you are.

 

You could do worse. Yesterday, my FB feed was filled with dopes saying Barney Frank was their spirit animal. That's when you realize which people only pay attention to politics once every 4 years. Gross. Big Bank Barney Frank? GTFO.

[Dojji]

Tell me, Kimmi, what are the future ramifications of a player over the age of 30 that is already so heavy that he needs to work on his conditioning for more than a month after reporting to the team, just to maybe be able to play his position at an adequate level? What are the long term consequences of coddling or enabling that kind of player?

 

Are the consequences of giving sandoval "chances" really any worse than those of letting Shaw beat him out for the job after a very strong Spring, where Shaw clearly showed up able to do the required job from day 1 and Pablo clearly dodn't, and hopefully incentivize Sandoval to put in the work required to win his way back into the lineup?

 

If Sandoval takes this lesson to heart, and works his tail off to get back into condition to actually be a major leaguer, rather than just being one by default strictly because the team's still on the hook for his contract, then my concerns about his character are nullified. If he doesn't, they are verified, and I would not have wanted him playing fulltime again even if he could physically stand the strain of doing so, which his recent back injury on a normal diving play suggests is probably not the case at this time. I will not run a player out onto that ballfield who can not do the job, or stand the strain physically of attempting to do the job, and that's where Pablo is right now. All other considerations aside the risk of additional injury and harm to Sandoval himself is just too great to give him "chances" until he shows sufficient physical improvement.

 

Wwwwwwwelp......

[Kimmi]

I am not making assumptions. An assumption needs to lack factual evidence:

 

This is factual evidence that Pablo did not put in the work required to lose the weight.

 

Also, you are trying to apply a statistical model to a physical impossibility. This is like you telling me Mike Lowell was going to post better defensive numbers in the last year of his career because positive regression was going to improve his defensive numbers. Well it wasn't going to happen after two hip surgeries.

 

If Farrell, after watching Sandoval take thousands of reps at 3B during the preseason comes and tells me Pablo doesn't have the range to play 3B, I can't go ahead and say that statistically, Farrell would be incorrect. It flies in the face of logic.

 

A picture is not proof of anything. Pablo has always been fat. That tells you nothing about his work ethic.

 

From Farrell today:

 

“Even going back to seeing him in person in January, he’s worked hard,” said Farrell. “While some things haven’t worked out as he envisioned in his preparation for spring training, he’s been accountable, he’s been stand-up, he’s got work to do as we all do. But, yeah, the fact that he speaks about our team which is the most important thing for all of us here, that’s a positive sign.”

 

Farrell continued: “As long as Panda continues to put forth the effort that he has shown … this isn’t about a work ethic, I need to make that abundantly clear. It’s not about his ethic. But at some point that work needs to translate and as evident, the decision to go with [Travis] Shaw at third base is there.”

[Kimmi]

With Rusney (if that is what they're doing)? Yes. With Pablo? No.

 

You continue to ignore the fact that he's just not viable defensively at 3B right now. He can't move, he's a statue. Farrell says it, the beat writers say it, the scouts say it, so how would you (or any of us?) know better. His contract might still be salvageable, but as of today, April 1st, 2016, he is completely useless as a ballplayer to the Boston Red Sox. They have a better defensive option at 3B, a better offensive and defensive option at 1B, and one of the best hitters in the game at DH.

 

From Cafardo, who makes some very good points. The point about where that quickness went was raised by me a couple of days ago.

 

Early in spring training, they even countered the suggestion that Sandoval’s weight created a performance problem by saying how well he was moving. We heard about his first-step quickness. We heard a lot of things that made us go, “Huh?”

 

As spring training went on, Sandoval made a few errors. His righthanded swing actually looked better, and lefthanded, he was hitting the ball hard at times but at people.

 

When I asked Dombrowski if Sandoval had gained weight during camp, he said that would not be accurate.

 

OK, so the competition began between Sandoval and Shaw, who hit close to .500 for most of camp. Shaw was declared the winner even when he was in the middle of a 1-for-19 slump. Shaw has played five professional games at third base. The team is framing this as a defensive victory for Shaw over Sandoval.

 

So the quickness Sandoval exhibited early in camp, that’s gone?

 

 

To me, it sounds like rash decisions being made by someone in panic mode.

[Kimmi]

We came in last place 3 of the last 4 years. When does the future come?

 

The future is now, but you don't make decisions for the now without taking into consideration the ramifications for the long term.

[Kimmi]

Tell me, Kimmi, what are the future ramifications of a player over the age of 30 that is already so heavy that he needs to work on his conditioning for more than a month after reporting to the team, just to maybe be able to play his position at an adequate level? What are the long term consequences of coddling or enabling that kind of player?

 

Are the consequences of giving sandoval "chances" really any worse than those of letting Shaw beat him out for the job after a very strong Spring, where Shaw clearly showed up able to do the required job from day 1 and Pablo clearly dodn't, and hopefully incentivize Sandoval to put in the work required to win his way back into the lineup?

 

If Sandoval takes this lesson to heart, and works his tail off to get back into condition to actually be a major leaguer, rather than just being one by default strictly because the team's still on the hook for his contract, then my concerns about his character are nullified. If he doesn't, they are verified, and I would not have wanted him playing fulltime again even if he could physically stand the strain of doing so, which his recent back injury on a normal diving play suggests is probably not the case at this time. I will not run a player out onto that ballfield who can not do the job, or stand the strain physically of attempting to do the job, and that's where Pablo is right now. All other considerations aside the risk of additional injury and harm to Sandoval himself is just too great to give him "chances" until he shows sufficient physical improvement.

 

Kory sums it up pretty well here:

 

It has been said that Sandoval’s ceiling is probably higher than Shaw’s; that is, that Sandoval stands a better chance of putting together a very good season than does Shaw. By starting Shaw the Red Sox are, so goes this argument, foregoing this potential payoff in return for what could honestly end up looking like very little in return given Shaw’s career track record.

 

The Red Sox have made huge investments in both Castillo and Sandoval, and by benching them they are both denying them a chance to reverse the course of their careers.

 

The same could be said for Castillo, who has been bad when he’s played, but if we’re being honest, he’s never really played all that much. That’s partly because of injuries which you can’t blame the team for, but if the Red Sox want to harvest any value from Castillo’s $72 million contract, then they have to play him. He’s not going to get any better nor increase his trade value sitting on his butt during games. This is about where this criticism starts to sting. The Red Sox have made huge investments in both Castillo and Sandoval, and by benching them they are both denying them a chance to reverse the course of their careers, as well as denying themselves a chance to collect on the investments they made. You can make a case for it if Holt and Shaw can play. But even then, that doesn’t preclude that the Red Sox could have received good production from Sandoval and Castillo.

 

In the end, the Red Sox are going to be left holding the bill anyway. They may as well try to get something for it. Instead they’ve decided the best way to get value for their contracts is for both players to play as little as possible. That’s a damning and potentially damaging pronouncement.

 

The entire article is excellent. For anyone who hasn't read it, I highly recommend it.

 

http://boston.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/04/01/rusney-castillo-and-pablo-sandoval-describing-bostons-new-bench/

[Kimmi]

Where was I griping about Ben?

 

I was agreeing with you that there is no clog.

 

Those who are saying that we have a clog are just using it as another excuse to gripe about Ben.

[Kimmi]

Plus, Pablo was given a fair chance. He was given all of last year and he ending up being a -2 WAR player and the worst fulltime positional player in the bigs.

 

No, he needs a fair chance THIS season in real games.

 

Players do bounce back from poor seasons.

 

And despite what some people thing, Pablo is likely to regress to his norms both offensively and defensively, at least to a decent degree.

[Kimmi]

The future ramification of Pablo starting and tanking for 2 months is Farrell potentially losing his job and the Sox falling so far behind that they wind up in last place again.

 

Bingo on the Farrell part. Panic mode!

 

If Pablo and the Sox are doing that badly after a few weeks, then the leash obviously becomes shorter.

[mvp 78]

No, he needs a fair chance THIS season in real games.

 

Players do bounce back from poor seasons.

 

And despite what some people thing, Pablo is likely to regress to his norms both offensively and defensively, at least to a decent degree.

 

I just can't agree. He was the worst fulltime player in MLB last uear. It was more than a slump.

[Spudboy]

A picture is not proof of anything. Pablo has always been fat. That tells you nothing about his work ethic.

 

From Farrell today:

 

More of Farrell gobledegook.

 

What do you expect him to say?

 

"The fat f*** came into camp dripping bacon and chicken fat. Our clubhouse manager has to place double orders of food now just so the other 39 players can have a snack. I've been in this game a long time. I've never seen such a fat guy take the field. I have never seen someone so f***ing clumsy with a baseball. Really, he should be selling oranges near the expressway ramp and be nowhere near any athletic event unless it is to help pull the Goodyear blimp down to Earth. I have no idea what was going through Ben's mind when he signed this turd. Maybe he had a bad batch of meth."

[cp176]

More of Farrell gobledegook.

 

What do you expect him to say?

 

"The fat f*** came into camp dripping bacon and chicken fat. Our clubhouse manager has to place double orders of food now just so the other 39 players can have a snack. I've been in this game a long time. I've never seen such a fat guy take the field. I have never seen someone so f***ing clumsy with a baseball. Really, he should be selling oranges near the expressway ramp and be nowhere near any athletic event unless it is to help pull the Goodyear blimp down to Earth. I have no idea what was going through Ben's mind when he signed this turd. Maybe he had a bad batch of meth."

 

creative - lol

[User Name]

More of Farrell gobledegook.

 

What do you expect him to say?

 

"The fat f*** came into camp dripping bacon and chicken fat. Our clubhouse manager has to place double orders of food now just so the other 39 players can have a snack. I've been in this game a long time. I've never seen such a fat guy take the field. I have never seen someone so f***ing clumsy with a baseball. Really, he should be selling oranges near the expressway ramp and be nowhere near any athletic event unless it is to help pull the Goodyear blimp down to Earth. I have no idea what was going through Ben's mind when he signed this turd. Maybe he had a bad batch of meth."

 

I was about to say this too, but quite a bit more subtly.

[Spudboy]

I was about to say this too, but quite a bit more subtly.

 

Well Kimmi is certain that I hate Pablo so I had to make the effort to support her assumption.

 

I aims to please.

[a700hitter]

No, he needs a fair chance THIS season in real games.

 

Players do bounce back from poor seasons.

 

And despite what some people thing, Pablo is likely to regress to his norms both offensively and defensively, at least to a decent degree.

Is his weight going to regress to the norm?

[a700hitter]

More of Farrell gobledegook.

 

What do you expect him to say?

 

"The fat f*** came into camp dripping bacon and chicken fat. Our clubhouse manager has to place double orders of food now just so the other 39 players can have a snack. I've been in this game a long time. I've never seen such a fat guy take the field. I have never seen someone so f***ing clumsy with a baseball. Really, he should be selling oranges near the expressway ramp and be nowhere near any athletic event unless it is to help pull the Goodyear blimp down to Earth. I have no idea what was going through Ben's mind when he signed this turd. Maybe he had a bad batch of meth."

LOL!! Farrell is not going to say what he really thinks -- that Pablo is so fat that he sweats gravy.

[Spudboy]

Is his weight going to regress to the norm?

 

Probably not without gastric bypass surgery.

 

He may be working hard on the field but he shows no interest in losing weight.

[a700hitter]

Probably not without gastric bypass surgery.

 

He may be working hard on the field but he shows no interest in losing weight.

You can't play this game at almost 300 lbs if you are under 6' tall.

[User Name]

Probably not without gastric bypass surgery.

 

He may be working hard on the field but he shows no interest in losing weight.

 

Oh, you mean he's not working hard enough at it. That would imply a problem with his conditioning and work ethic.

 

If I can drop the weight on a budget and limited time, so can Pablo with his millions in the middle of a six month vacation.

[a700hitter]

Oh, you mean he's not working hard enough at it. That would imply a problem with his conditioning and work ethic.

 

If I can drop the weight on a budget and limited time, so can Pablo with his millions in the middle of a six month vacation.

How much do you think it would cost per month in the off season to hire a nutritionist, a chef and personal trainer in the DR?

[User Name]

How much do you think it would cost per month in the off season to hire a nutritionist, a chef and personal trainer in the DR?

 

I don't think on this one, I actually know (I train with one of the best ones around from time to time and have done my rounds with nutritionists, including him): The nutritionist/personal trainer (an accredited one without BS broscience) would run you 500/1,000 dollars, depending on the schedule and how personalized do you want the sessions to be. In reality, someone with a limited budget could get a personalized assesment, with macronutrient/calorie adjustment every two weeks and 5/week training sessions for less than 300 dollars. You'd pay the initial estimate (500-1000) if you want a guy to caddy you every step of the way (you know, the life coach sort).

 

The chef is a whole other deal, because of differing specialties, and of course, how "famous" he is. You can get a good one making and pre-packaging all of your meals for 500/month plus the food obviously. Go top of the line guys, and you're looking triple that, but of course we're talking tailor made, top-of-the-line stuff that adjusts exactly to the regimen you'll follow.

 

10,000 dollars (including food) would have had Pablo drop the weight (40 pounds, let's say) in three months if he was willing to do it.

[User Name]

On a side note: I did it by bugging a guy I met while at Western. I created my own diet plan (with his help of course, if I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be fat) and followed it to the letter. A month and a half later I started training hard. I buy my own food (on a very limited budget), cook my own food, and train alone, with no "life coach" on my ass to tell me what I have to do and when.

 

That's the reason why it's so mind boggling that Pablo showed up to camp in the shape that he did (he has dropped weight before, so it''s not like he can't), lied about the directives the FO gave him, and had that smug f***ing attitude with anyone who questioned his weight. Holy s***, f*** that guy.

[a700hitter]

I don't think on this one, I actually know (I train with one of the best ones around from time to time and have done my rounds with nutritionists, including him): The nutritionist/personal trainer (an accredited one without BS broscience) would run you 500/1,000 dollars, depending on the schedule and how personalized do you want the sessions to be. In reality, someone with a limited budget could get a personalized assesment, with macronutrient/calorie adjustment every two weeks and 5/week training sessions for less than 300 dollars. You'd pay the initial estimate (500-1000) if you want a guy to caddy you every step of the way (you know, the life coach sort).

 

The chef is a whole other deal, because of differing specialties, and of course, how "famous" he is. You can get a good one making and pre-packaging all of your meals for 500/month plus the food obviously. Go top of the line guys, and you're looking triple that, but of course we're talking tailor made, top-of-the-line stuff that adjusts exactly to the regimen you'll follow.

 

10,000 dollars (including food) would have had Pablo drop the weight (40 pounds, let's say) in three months if he was willing to do it.

This confirms what I thought -- that even if he went top shelf for the whole thing, it would be chump change compared to his contract. He has no excuses. He just didn't care enough to get in shape. It is that simple. Kimmi would have us believe that he was held down and force fed, but the reality is that he has no excuses. The blame is all his.