The Official Dead Horse Topics Thread

[a700hitter]

He seems to be trying to transition into more of a command and control pitcher. It would be an exceptional pitcher who didn't encounter a few speedbumps in that kind of transformation. Let's wait and see how he finishes the year.

His velocity has been gone for a few seasons. He knows how to pitch.

[Kimmi]

A fine article from Matthew Kory today on Cherington.

 

Cherington’s record will never be perfect unless Allen Craig remembers where his power and hitting ability went, Joe Kelly turns into an actual starting pitcher and Rusney Castillo becomes a major leaguer of really any kind whatsoever. Those things aren’t likely to happen now and nobody is expecting them to. But perfection isn’t the goal, at least not in the aggregate. The goal is to put a good team on the field, and last season for numerous reasons that didn’t happen. This season, the Red Sox are in first place and, even though he’s gone now, Ben Cherington’s imprint is all over this team. For the first time since last season, we can see that that’s a good thing. The Red Sox wouldn’t be where they are now without lots of people, but one of them is Ben Cherington and it’s time he got the credit he deserves.

 

Cherington is not without fault, but seriously people, give him the credit that he deserves. Not only does this year's team look good, but it looks to be well set for years to come.

[iortiz]

Lol!

[a700hitter]

Ben can do an extra credit report if he likes.

[Spudboy]

I don't care about Cherrington anymore.

 

 

I like Dombrowski more each day so far.

[Palodios]

I'm pretty much over the whole Ben Cherington argument. That being said, I'm becoming even more strongly pro-Theo. Look what he's done to the Cubs, and its hard not to be impressed.

 

Most of the youngsters coming up for the Red Sox right now are Theo draftees. Betts, Bogaerts, Shaw, Vazquez, and Bradley were all his doing.

[Kingface]

I'm pretty much over the whole Ben Cherington argument. That being said, I'm becoming even more strongly pro-Theo. Look what he's done to the Cubs, and its hard not to be impressed.

 

Most of the youngsters coming up for the Red Sox right now are Theo draftees. Betts, Bogaerts, Shaw, Vazquez, and Bradley were all his doing.

 

I was one of few that was a big fan of Theo. He helped bring 2 WS championships to a team that hasn't won forever....to the point where a stupid Globe writer made up a dumb crap curse. He helped make this team a winner year in and year out. What he has done in Chicago has been nothing short of brilliant. If he helps bring a WS championship to the Cubs.........Theo will find himself in Cooperstown.

[Palodios]

I was one of few that was a big fan of Theo. He helped bring 2 WS championships to a team that hasn't won forever....to the point where a stupid Globe writer made up a dumb crap curse. He helped make this team a winner year in and year out. What he has done in Chicago has been nothing short of brilliant. If he helps bring a WS championship to the Cubs.........Theo will find himself in Cooperstown.

 

Around here you'll find a little more than half of us are big Theo fans. If Theo retired today, there would be a strong arguement he should go to Cooperstown with or without a Cubbie title.

[Palodios]

Ben traded Lars Anderson for this team's current ace.

 

Boom.Mic drop.

[sk7326]

I'm pretty much over the whole Ben Cherington argument. That being said, I'm becoming even more strongly pro-Theo. Look what he's done to the Cubs, and its hard not to be impressed.

 

Most of the youngsters coming up for the Red Sox right now are Theo draftees. Betts, Bogaerts, Shaw, Vazquez, and Bradley were all his doing.

 

They shepherded the best decade in the franchise - not much apology needed.

[Kimmi]

Ben traded Lars Anderson for this team's current ace.

 

Boom.Mic drop.

 

Awesome post. That is all.

[Jasonbay44]

Lol, I remember when Lars Anderson was supposed to be the 1B of the future...

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/prospects/y2009/profile.jsp?t=p_top&pid=502249

tatistically speaking: Left-handed hitters are supposed to struggle against southpaws. That hasn't been the case with Anderson. He's managed to hit .307 against southpaws in his two years as a pro, a touch better than his .302 mark against right-handers.

 

Scouting report: He has an advanced approach to hitting, simple mechanics, knowledge of strike zone and plus power to all fields. He should hit for average and power in the big leagues and he's worked hard on his defense to the point where he's a good first baseman.

 

Upside potential: All-Star-caliber first baseman that will contend for batting titles and RBI crowns, with plenty of homers to boot.

 

They said it: "We're happy with the progress that he's made. He's always shown the ability to hit from the day he walked into the organization. He's continued to improve in his discipline and his ability to drive the ball. He's also made strides defensively, so there's a lot of things to like here. He's somebody we're very excited about." -- Red Sox Farm Director Mike Hazen

 

He said it: "For me, there's nothing more enjoyable than hitting a ball well, and seeing that trajectory, and having that feeling in the bat where it's almost a feeling of nothing, yet it's something. It's almost like magic." -- In Baseball Prospectus Q&A

[a700hitter]

Maybe we should trade more of our top prospects for knuckleball pitchers?

[Jasonbay44]

Maybe we should trade more of our top prospects for knuckleball pitchers?

 

Might as well, seems like a good strategy.

[S5Dewey]

Lol, I remember when Lars Anderson was supposed to be the 1B of the future...

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/prospects/y2009/profile.jsp?t=p_top&pid=502249

 

Yes. This is why I keep cautioning about putting too much faith in prospects. Most of them don't pan out. It's also why I'm not prepared to give Benintendi a spot in the outfield until he proves he can play at the ML level.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes. This is why I keep cautioning about putting too much faith in prospects.

 

Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Shaw, and Vazquez are looking pretty good to me right now.

[mvp 78]

Lars didn't even play well in Pawtucket. Benintendi and Moncada are so far beyond Lars that it's impossible to compare them.

[a700hitter]

Lars was our minor league player of the year at one time

[mvp 78]

Lars was our minor league player of the year at one time

 

Considering how this system looked at times, it isn't always a big feat.

[a700hitter]

Considering how this system looked at times, it isn't always a big feat.

He was a prize for Theo

[mvp 78]

He was a prize for Theo

 

So was Lugo.

[cp176]

Now I get the fact that winning can make everything seem wonderful but I have to say that I was probably wrong to question the attitude of Hanley. He obviously has proven more than capable of playing first base (as in really good) but it is the way he is approaching the game that I am impressed with. Sometimes it makes sense to just watch and listen and draw your own conclusions about these guys. There is so much written and said that sometimes you really don't know what is going on. Really happy for this guy and also happy he is with us.

[Maxbialystock]

Now I get the fact that winning can make everything seem wonderful but I have to say that I was probably wrong to question the attitude of Hanley. He obviously has proven more than capable of playing first base (as in really good) but it is the way he is approaching the game that I am impressed with. Sometimes it makes sense to just watch and listen and draw your own conclusions about these guys. There is so much written and said that sometimes you really don't know what is going on. Really happy for this guy and also happy he is with us.

 

I honestly don't regret being down on Ramirez last year. Heck, he had a significantly negative WAR and was getting a paid a lot of money. Moving him to 1B was a smart move, but I think he just decided in the offseason he was going to turn over a new leaf. The 2016 Hanley is way different from the 2015 one.

[sk7326]

Lars was our minor league player of the year at one time

 

There are no absolutes. The system player of the year is always weird to me - it's a nice way to recognize guys who play well, but the correlation with how the org views its prospects does not seem that high.

 

The Lars Anderson, Andy Marte's of the world make the whole scouting thing a particular bear.

[Kimmi]

I honestly don't regret being down on Ramirez last year. Heck, he had a significantly negative WAR and was getting a paid a lot of money. Moving him to 1B was a smart move, but I think he just decided in the offseason he was going to turn over a new leaf. The 2016 Hanley is way different from the 2015 one.

 

I have no problem with anyone being down on the way he played last year. He was terrible. However, I did not like hearing accusations of him being lazy, apathetic, or a clubhouse cancer. Obviously his mental state is a lot better this year, but that doesn't mean that he had a poor attitude last year or that he wasn't trying. First base is a much better fit for him (I was thankfully very wrong about that), he is healthy, and the team is winning. That will improve anyone's mental state.

 

It's not just Hanley, but all of these guys are having tons of fun out there. Great to see.

[cp176]

key - there are no absolutes! Think that maybe Anderson and Marte projected to be better than Shaw and Betts? Sometimes we just watch and draw our own conclusions.

[Dojji]

Jonathan papelbon, 12 saves. 2.89 ERA. He's clearly lost some of his putaway power but he's just as clearly improved his command and control to make up for it. You know, like a really good pitcher figures out how to do as he starts heading down the back 9

[iortiz]

Jonathan papelbon, 13 saves. 2.89 ERA. He's clearly lost some of his putaway power but he's just as clearly improved his command and control to make up for it. You know, like a really good pitcher figures out how to do as he starts heading down the back 9

Fixed.

 

I think I said this in other thread. In 2013 when he struggled a bit --2.92 ERA, 30 SV-- He said that he was not a fastball pitcher anymore. He said that he was working in his other pitches & command/control and those adjustments could take some time. It took 2013. Those adjustments made him even better since then.

 

2014 2.04 ERA, 91% SV%

2015 2.13 ERA, 92% SV%

Career 2.36 ERA 88% SV%

 

Not to mention that his durability is intact. As I said in 2011 when he signed with the Phillies, he is driving on Mo's Highway-- ™. LOL!

[Palodios]

Fixed.

 

I think I said this in other thread. In 2013 when he struggled a bit --2.92 ERA, 30 SV-- He said that he was not a fastball pitcher anymore. He said that he was working in his other pitches & command/control and those adjustments could take some time. It took 2013. Those adjustments made him even better since then.

 

2014 2.04 ERA, 91% SV%

2015 2.13 ERA, 92% SV%

Career 2.36 ERA 88% SV%

 

Not to mention that his durability is intact. As I said in 2011 when he signed with the Phillies, he is driving on Mo's Highway-- ™. LOL!

 

Papelbon has held up a lot better than most of us expected. I was strongly against the signing at the time, but looking back at the guys the Red Sox have given up for bad relief pitching over the last few years, signing Papelbon would have been much more efficient. Thankfully we've had Koji, because this team has traded a lot of value for relieviers in recent years, many of them busts.

 

2007 -- Gagne for Murphy

2010 -- 12 million for Bobby Jenks...

2011 -- Josh Reddick for Andrew Bailey. Melacon for Jed Lowrie.

2012 -- Jack Hanrahan for a pile of prospects that might have been better used in another trade. Fortunately Holt came along for the ride.

2013 -- Thornton for a tradeable prospect.

2015 -- Kimbrel for Margot/Guerra. Carson Smith for Wade Miley.

[User Name]

Kimbrel has a 0.737 WHIP and is 12/13 in save opportunities. Papelbon is a distant (and overrated) memory.

 

Papelbon is riding on the "Way to crappy reliever" highway. ™