The search for an ace

[dupree]

I honestly don't think any moves will make people on this board happy as a collective whole.

 

If we win the World Series next year someone would bitch that we didn't do it right.

[mvp 78]

It improves the 8th inning and the 7th inning too though. You do seem to be going out of your way to discredit the acquisition.

 

Really? I don't get that feeling at all.

[User Name]

Everyone likes Kimbrel (and they should, because he is awesome) but some don't like the price paid for him.

[Dojji]

No one wants to pay full price.

 

We just had a postseason where the bullpen proved to be a key element in who won the World Series, and this happened at the time when we were in the market for relief pitching. It's just bad timing but bad timing isn't an excuse for a big market team to accept another cellar year so you pay what it takes.

[sk7326]

No one wants to pay full price.

 

We just had a postseason where the bullpen proved to be a key element in who won the World Series, and this happened at the time when we were in the market for relief pitching. It's just bad timing but bad timing isn't an excuse for a big market team to accept another cellar year so you pay what it takes.

 

The bullpen was a key element in 2014, 2013, 2012 and 2011 too ... let's not pretend this is something hip and new. And all of those title winners had "closers" who were not the team's original idea.

[Dojji]

The bullpen was a key element in 2014, 2013, 2012 and 2011 too ... let's not pretend this is something hip and new. And all of those title winners had "closers" who were not the team's original idea.

 

All the more reason to stack another elite arm on top of the aging Koji.

[sk7326]

All the more reason to stack another elite arm on top of the aging Koji.

 

By spending the sort of package the Rangers used to get Hamels ... all right

[User Name]

No one wants to pay full price.

 

We just had a postseason where the bullpen proved to be a key element in who won the World Series, and this happened at the time when we were in the market for relief pitching. It's just bad timing but bad timing isn't an excuse for a big market team to accept another cellar year so you pay what it takes.

 

Weren't you preaching fiscal conservativism and a mid-range rebuild a couple months ago? Now "they should act like a big market team". Did your outlook on the team as a whole improve, or what happened? Because the inconsistencies in your thought process are very confusing.

[vjcsmoke]

Ok so who would love to see Chris Sale playing for the Red Sox? *raises hand* Even if the package centered around Blake Swihart or Xander Bogaerts would you do it? I have a feeling, if they would take Swihart+ package, it would be worth it. But it's really hard to give up the shortstop of the future in Bogaerts.

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/11/boston_red_sox_trade_rumors_bo.html

[a700hitter]

Ok so who would love to see Chris Sale playing for the Red Sox? *raises hand* Even if the package centered around Blake Swihart or Xander Bogaerts would you do it? I have a feeling, if they would take Swihart+ package, it would be worth it. But it's really hard to give up the shortstop of the future in Bogaerts.

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/11/boston_red_sox_trade_rumors_bo.html

I think I would swallow real hard and then pull the trigger, even for Bogaerts.

[SoxnCycles]

Ok so who would love to see Chris Sale playing for the Red Sox? *raises hand* Even if the package centered around Blake Swihart or Xander Bogaerts would you do it? I have a feeling, if they would take Swihart+ package, it would be worth it. But it's really hard to give up the shortstop of the future in Bogaerts.

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/11/boston_red_sox_trade_rumors_bo.html

 

 

I agree.

Swihart? Yes. Bogearts? No.

it would probably take Swihart and at least three of the remaining top prospects, like Devers, Johnson and Marrero to get it done.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cycles, I agree. If Swihart is the main piece, you'd have to gut the system to go with it. I'd say Devers, Moncada, and a B level prospects. If it's Bogaerts, it's less obviously

[a700hitter]

Cycles, I agree. If Swihart is the main piece, you'd have to gut the system to go with it. I'd say Devers, Moncada, and a B level prospects. If it's Bogaerts, it's less obviously

Gut is the right word...probably have to add Owens. Sale is a premier top 5 pitcher who is young and cheap. It would take Bogaerts or a gutting of the system.

[cp176]

I agree.

Swihart? Yes. Bogearts? No.

it would probably take Swihart and at least three of the remaining top prospects, like Devers, Johnson and Marrero to get it done.

 

This one would be tough but would work for me. Of this group, I'm betting on Devers being the one whose loss would hurt the most. I think that it would take a package of both Swihart and Moncada plus others though. I would go the free agency route.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ok so who would love to see Chris Sale playing for the Red Sox? *raises hand* Even if the package centered around Blake Swihart or Xander Bogaerts would you do it? I have a feeling, if they would take Swihart+ package, it would be worth it. But it's really hard to give up the shortstop of the future in Bogaerts.

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/11/boston_red_sox_trade_rumors_bo.html

 

Unfortunately this article was on 11/13, before the Sox trade for Kimbrel came out, and before DD said he's not trading any more prospects.

[SoxnCycles]

Unfortunately this article was on 11/13, before the Sox trade for Kimbrel came out, and before DD said he's not trading any more prospects.

 

Yup, it's not happening now.

[a700hitter]

From MLB Trade Rumors:

•There was some buzz yesterday surrounding the possibility of the Marlins dangling stud righty Jose Fernandez in trades after Craig Mish of Sirius XM tweeted that there is a “growing sentiment” inside and outside the organization that a deal could occur this winter. That’s hardly an indication that a deal is likely, but it wouldn’t be surprising for the Fish at least to listen. The Scott Boras client has three years of control remaining and doesn’t seem likely to sign an extension. While he’ll be rather affordable — MLBTR projects only a $2MM arbitration salary because of his limited innings last year — he’d also be a hotly-pursued trade piece that could potentially bring back a huge return of more controllable talent at or near the big league level.

[Dojji]

Don't think we have the pieces for Fernandez. Given the Marlins MO of looking for big league ready talent, Fernandez would probably cost us Eddie plus a lot more, and that's not a step in a positive direction for the franchise right now.

[sk7326]

Don't think we have the pieces for Fernandez. Given the Marlins MO of looking for big league ready talent, Fernandez would probably cost us Eddie plus a lot more, and that's not a step in a positive direction for the franchise right now.

 

Nope, probably don't have the pieces anymore. Imagine if they did though. The Marlins MO is being cheap though - and perhaps Moncada and stuff gets them where they want.

[Kimmi]

Yup, it's not happening now.

 

Not without gutting the farm, as Jacko said.

 

I almost think you have to go the trade route now, which limits our options, or go with a 2nd tier starter and strengthen the pen even more.

[SoxnCycles]

Not without gutting the farm, as Jacko said.

 

I almost think you have to go the trade route now, which limits our options, or go with a 2nd tier starter and strengthen the pen even more.

 

Yup, unless they plan on blowing past the luxury tax limit.

The Sox have been reluctant to do that in the past, but they may have given Dombrowski the green light to so this off season.

 

If they made a commitment to strengthen the bullpen, they could get by with a 2nd tier pitcher.

Bullpens are an iffy proposition to begin with though.

They could end up with a staff like KC; adequate starting pitching and a killer pen, or it could go south like this past season; a rotation that puts too much pressure on the bullpen and the whole staff folds.

 

Can't wait to see which way this goes.

[Dojji]

An odd conclusion. This team makes bank. There is no reason -- none -- why they can't shell out some money for a top ace.

[sk7326]

Not without gutting the farm, as Jacko said.

 

I almost think you have to go the trade route now, which limits our options, or go with a 2nd tier starter and strengthen the pen even more.

 

One good thing is that the "less sexy" starting market is very strong as well this year. Leake, Kazmir, possibly Fister (although more hoping there).

[a700hitter]

One good thing is that the "less sexy" starting market is very strong as well this year. Leake, Kazmir, possibly Fister (although more hoping there).

i don't like any of those options. Kazmir is always a pitch away from elbow surgery and Fister was throwing 86 last year. Leaks is the best of the bunch, and I don't think much of him.

[SoxnCycles]

An odd conclusion. This team makes bank. There is no reason -- none -- why they can't shell out some money for a top ace.

 

Fans may not care about a budget, the Red Sox FO does.

The Sox may exceed the luxury tax threshold this coming season, but they wont do it two years in a row.

[Bellhorn04]

One good thing is that the "less sexy" starting market is very strong as well this year. Leake, Kazmir, possibly Fister (although more hoping there).

 

Can't forget about Lackey either.

[Spudboy]

Can't forget about Lackey either.

 

I suggested lackey for the Sox a while back.

 

Somehow I doubt that the Sox are interested.

[Orange Juiced]

Don't think we have the pieces for Fernandez. Given the Marlins MO of looking for big league ready talent, Fernandez would probably cost us Eddie plus a lot more, and that's not a step in a positive direction for the franchise right now.

 

The Sox have more than enough pieces to get Fernandez. Good grief. It's just that the guys the Marlins would want, I don't think the Sox would want to give up. Namely, Betts and Bogaerts.

[sk7326]

Can't forget about Lackey either.

 

Kazmir, Leake, Lackey, Chen all have cases ... Zimmermann has a QO attached to him which is a turn off for a mid-rotation guy. Unfortunately Samardzija got a QO because I liked him quite a bit for a value play. Unfortunately QOs are attached to a lot of the middle class guys who'd be worth a look - and will be bad for their market I'd think.

 

For bullpen help, O'Day makes sense. Personally Tim Lincecum would be a very worthwhile flier to see if you can hit some lightning with him out of the pen.

[sk7326]

The Sox have more than enough pieces to get Fernandez. Good grief. It's just that the guys the Marlins would want, I don't think the Sox would want to give up. Namely, Betts and Bogaerts.

 

It's possible - I'd like to see what the Sox could do around Moncada - who makes all sorts of sense for Miami (Cuban and cheap).