Orsillo out at end of the year

[Dojji]

Evolvement? That's a new one

 

Every political movement has places where it goes overboard. The pro-tolerance movement is no exception. There are some behaviors you should not tolerate -- what they are is up to normal societal processes to determine, which can include everything from legislation to the grass roots. In everything there is a balance to be struck.

 

My personal perception is that we're reaching a point in this country where in our desire to be tolerant we are beginning to step way too hard on the rights of people who disagree with the popular narrative. Tolerating other cultures and beliefs is good to a point, but in our push for tolerance we are beginning to criminalize disagreement, as if merely holding a contrary opinion is itself intolerant, and that is just not alright.

 

People have to have the right to be stupid. They have to have the right to look at the facts and reach the wrong conclusion as long as they do not deprive anyone else if a fundamental human right by doing so. Not only because you never know when history may well wind up exonerating them but becauese of what rights are and what a right signifies, which is something that CANNOT be taken away for ANY reason. If you have a right to an opinion at all, then by direct definition you have a right to an incorrect one.

 

If anyone does not have the right to an incorrect opinion, no matter what that opinion may be, then no one ever had any free speech rights at all -- not really. Some of us seem to have lost sight of that.

 

What's more, they need the right to behave according to that opinion as long as they do no injury and damage no property. Denying them that right as well is also dangerous to the rights and privileges of everyone else.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

A lot of nonsensical ramblings going on here.

[Kimmi]

A lot of nonsensical ramblings going on here.

 

Bring Orsillo back!!!

[a700hitter]

People have to have the right to be stupid. They have to have the right to look at the facts and reach the wrong conclusion as long as they do not deprive anyone else if a fundamental human right by doing so. Not only because you never know when history may well wind up exonerating them but becauese of what rights are and what a right signifies, which is something that CANNOT be taken away for ANY reason. If you have a right to an opinion at all, then by direct definition you have a right to an incorrect one.

This is an excellent point. Most of societal "evolvement" is borne from people and movements that were considered initially to wrong, immoral etc. before those movements took hold in popular culture. If popular culture seeks to expel from society different ideas and to demonize and financially ruin those who hold those ideas, it will stop evolving and it will cease to be tolerant.

 

A case of society going overboard is the case of the dentist who hunted the lion. I am not a hunter. I am an animal lover, but the reaction and hatred directed toward this guy in social media and the destruction of his property and demonizing him a frightening example of mob mentality. Hunting is not an illegal activity and not a big societal issue or problem yet it generated a frightful reaction.

[Bellhorn04]

A case of society going overboard is the case of the dentist who hunted the lion. I am not a hunter. I am an animal lover, but the reaction and hatred directed toward this guy in social media and the destruction of his property and demonizing him a frightening example of mob mentality. Hunting is not an illegal activity and not a big societal issue or problem yet it generated a frightful reaction.

 

Very true. The internet and social media have given people a whole new power, and one of the frightening results is the expansion of mob mentality.

 

If you look at human history, we keep discovering and developing new powers, and in many of them have been the potential for both great good and great destruction.

 

(Sorry but I am a philosophy freak.)

[mvp 78]

Except his hunt was illegal per their government's laws. Hunting protected animals is illegal, which makes it wrong.

[a700hitter]

Except his hunt was illegal per their government's laws. Hunting protected animals is illegal, which makes it wrong.

Maybe so. That is being alleged, and that would be a matter of local law enforcement. It was likely the guide's (professional hunter's) fault if it was illegal. The tourist hunter relies on the PH's knowledge. You don't get to go out and hunt without one. If it was illegal, he should get his day in court and not be subjected to mob feeding frenzy. In those African countries, hunting is a big part of their tourist economy. It is culturally acceptable and encouraged and they have rules to conserve their wildlife. Those countries have huge problems with local poachers, who by the way can be shot on site under the laws in some of those countries.

 

Edit: I know some hunters. Even protected animals can be hunted legally in Africa. The fees are very high to hunt some of the protected game such as leopards, elephants etc., but they can be hunted legally. An elephant hunt can carry a fee over $20,000 much more if you want the ivory. Poachers are the big problem, not the hunters.

Edited August 30, 2015 by a700hitter

[Orange Juiced]

Well, I'm going to take the information from dozens and dozens of scientific studies conducted by linguists, sociologists, psychiatric experts, and anthropologists specializing in communication, and weigh them against people who have "a story" about how they remember people communicating much better when they were younger, and form my opinion accordingly. Every generation remembers their early years through rose-colored glasses. "When I was younger, people were nicer and talked more with their voices! Also, racism, sexism, and segregation were far more prevalent, homosexuality was treated like an evil disease, environmental protection was basically nonexistent, and teenagers still had stupid slang and talked about dumb s***, but still, we were better!". "No, the 80's were better!" "No, the 90s!"...and on and on and on. Each successive generation is more intelligent, more confident, more imaginative, lives longer, and becomes less discriminatory. The "gays=bad" and "women as second-class citizens"-type social views among the over-50 crowd are going down slowly (mostly as the really old ones die off), but among my generation they're about as common as the KKK is in the general population. That kind of tearing down of social injustice doesn't happen due to an inability to communicate well. It happens because the rapid speed of discourse available to us allows us to discuss these issues without having to leave the comfort of our homes. (Or toilets, for you disgusting people who use your laptops and phones in the bathroom. Seriously, you are a terrible human being).

 

All sorts of work is being done studying the various dangers (I don't mean physical) of our current electronic/technological age. They are numerous.

 

But whatever...clearly we've hijacked the thread here. Let's go back to lamenting about Orsillo.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Orange Juiced

[Behindenemylines]

Similar to the FO going after DD when the Tigers let him go, when O'Brien became available he became the target.

[cp176]

Evolvement? That's a new one

 

Every political movement has places where it goes overboard. The pro-tolerance movement is no exception. There are some behaviors you should not tolerate -- what they are is up to normal societal processes to determine, which can include everything from legislation to the grass roots. In everything there is a balance to be struck.

 

My personal perception is that we're reaching a point in this country where in our desire to be tolerant we are beginning to step way too hard on the rights of people who disagree with the popular narrative. Tolerating other cultures and beliefs is good to a point, but in our push for tolerance we are beginning to criminalize disagreement, as if merely holding a contrary opinion is itself intolerant, and that is just not alright.

 

People have to have the right to be stupid. They have to have the right to look at the facts and reach the wrong conclusion as long as they do not deprive anyone else if a fundamental human right by doing so. Not only because you never know when history may well wind up exonerating them but becauese of what rights are and what a right signifies, which is something that CANNOT be taken away for ANY reason. If you have a right to an opinion at all, then by direct definition you have a right to an incorrect one.

 

If anyone does not have the right to an incorrect opinion, no matter what that opinion may be, then no one ever had any free speech rights at all -- not really. Some of us seem to have lost sight of that.

 

What's more, they need the right to behave according to that opinion as long as they do no injury and damage no property. Denying them that right as well is also dangerous to the rights and privileges of everyone else.

 

Who gets to decide who is right and who is wrong? Who gets to decide what is stupid and what isn't?

[Kimmi]

NESN apparently tried to get Orsillo to state/tweet that he was not fired but that the decision for him to leave was mutual.

 

Nothing like trying to get the person that you just shafted to cover your PR mess.

[Elktonnick]

Werner is the one I wish would leave. Notice no one has left NESN on good terms. They defamed Heidi Whatney and tried to do the same to Jenny Dell when there was no reason to do so. Edited September 5, 2015 by Elktonnick

[reYoukilis]

Maybe with the new play by play we'll become a better team. Who knew it was Don Orsillo all this time and not the pitching. Good to see they're focused on winning.

[jimbob728]

Has Werner or Henry had the sack to sit among the fans, first row , since the Orsillo announcement? If so, I haven't seen it. Kinda hiding out it seems. Probably worried about getting a slice of pizza tossed in their direction.

If this mess with their favorite broadcaster being dismissed without the slightest bit of class or honesty,was happening in Philadelphia, the replacement (Dave O'Brien) would be booed relentlessly the next time he took center stage to do some on field ceremony. I only blame O'Brien for making his gushing, this is my dream job, I'm getting a chubby, I love nesn statement without word one about Orsillo after it was announced and his colleague was still sitting in the booth. It was low class.

[reYoukilis]

Has Werner or Henry had the sack to sit among the fans, first row , since the Orsillo announcement? If so, I haven't seen it. Kinda hiding out it seems. Probably worried about getting a slice of pizza tossed in their direction.

If this mess with their favorite broadcaster being dismissed without the slightest bit of class or honesty,was happening in Philadelphia, the replacement (Dave O'Brien) would be booed relentlessly the next time he took center stage to do some on field ceremony. I only blame O'Brien for making his gushing, this is my dream job, I'm getting a chubby, I love nesn statement without word one about Orsillo after it was announced and his colleague was still sitting in the booth. It was low class.

What's so great about O'Brien? Not that impressive to be honest. Just pisses me off that they're spending their energy in such useless ways when we're in last place. Fix what's broken, not what isn't.

[Youk Of The Nation]

What's so great about O'Brien? Not that impressive to be honest. Just pisses me off that they're spending their energy in such useless ways when we're in last place. Fix what's broken, not what isn't.

 

This makes no sense at all. The people who are in charge of the on-the-field decisions, i.e. the GM and his staff and the coaches, have nothing to do with the decisions in the booth. This are two completely separate situations, and honestly, none of us knows the exact reasons behind Orsillo leaving. Maybe he wanted too much money and they wanted to spend it on improving the team? Maybe he was sexually harassing someone. (I highly doubt that, in fact I'm sure that isn't it, but just as an example of something they don't want to publicize). Maybe he's buddies with Remy but a jerk to everyone else? Maybe there are possibly dozens of behind-the-scenes reasons we as fans are not privy to?

 

I think people who are frustrated with how bad this season has been are using this as another chance to complain about the Sox, but complaining about them making changes to the broadcasting staff as if it's taking away time or effort from managing the team is just ridiculous. It's the same as saying "why is the FBI spending money on (blank) when the CIA needs to fix (redacted for national security)." Yeah, they're technically part of the same government, but they are different departments.

[Dojji]

That said this is probably not the best time to take away one of the only things that made this season marginally watchable.

[mvp 78]

If Orsillo was a jerk or wanted too much money, we would've heard about it by now. NESN just wanted a change and a cheaper option, that's all.

[Dojji]

I think the applicable aphorism is "penny wise, dollar dumb." I think they lose more than they gain breaking up that broadcast team.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I think the applicable aphorism is "penny wise, dollar dumb." I think they lose more than they gain breaking up that broadcast team.

 

What do they lose? No one is going to stop being a Red Sox fan over this. If they do, they werent a serious fan to begin with.

[Spudboy]

What do they lose? No one is going to stop being a Red Sox fan over this. If they do, they werent a serious fan to begin with.

 

Maybe the Sox and NESN don't actually lose anything tangible.

 

What you fail to recognize is that many fans that tune in on TV really enjoy Orsillo.

 

In this case, those fans loose.

 

I remember watching every episode of Star Trek in the Sixties. It was my favorite show.

 

Then it was cancelled.

[Thunder]

I, for one, don't like when they get too rambunctious. As you may recall, I often watch YES when we play the Yankees, and watched FOX and TBS over NESN in the Mets series (could have also done SNY). I am going to miss his unique sayings though, like "Takes with him the 5th SO for Eduardo Rodriguez" or "Fenway stands as one!" On the other hand, I love Dave. I love his voice in big moments. He has TV and championship experience with ESPN, calling all those UConn women's basketball titles.

[mvp 78]

I'll still be a fan, but may watch fewer games if the booth gets any worse.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Maybe the Sox and NESN don't actually lose anything tangible.

 

What you fail to recognize is that many fans that tune in on TV really enjoy Orsillo.

 

In this case, those fans loose.

 

I remember watching every episode of Star Trek in the Sixties. It was my favorite show.

 

Then it was cancelled.

 

Using Star Trek isn't a good example, because the cancellation led to the fans gathering together, which led to conventions, which eventually led to the creation and release of the Motion Picture, which revitalized the franchise and ended up launching the Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Enterprise, and, unfortunately, Voyager. Not that cancelling it didn't suck, but had it been allowed to die a natural death it probably would have fizzled after five seasons and we wouldn't have the world-spanning media franchise it is today. No movies, no video games, no online games, not many books or comics, and less merchandise. Obviously this isn't the same situation, but I really believe the end of Orsillo's employment with the team will be little more than a footnote or a blip in another ten years.

 

"Remember Orsillo? Yeah, that guy was pretty cool, him and Remy were a lot of fun"

Edited September 7, 2015 by Youk Of The Nation

[Dojji]

I really disagree with you YOTN. Let's use the example of Babylon 5. It was alloweds to play itself all the way out despite threat of cancellation after season 4, and it still has a rabid following.

[Bellhorn04]

I really believe the end of Orsillo's employment with the team will be little more than a footnote or a blip in another ten years.

"Remember Orsillo? Yeah, that guy was pretty cool, him and Remy were a lot of fun"

 

That's probably true, but it doesn't say much. Many things that mean a lot to us right now will be footnotes/blips in ten years.

[sk7326]

It will be a blip - the issue has always been about form.

[Spudboy]

It will be a blip - the issue has always been about form.

 

Exactly.

 

The Sox org. has not exactly bathed itself in glory recently. They looked bad dismissing Tito who is still greatly admired in these parts and now they have s*** on someone who is seen as "one of us".

 

May be a blip but the cumulative effect of these missteps will reflect on the Sox FO for as long as they are in command.

 

I already can't stand those pukes. This is just another brick in the wall.

 

f*** 'em.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I really disagree with you YOTN. Let's use the example of Babylon 5. It was alloweds to play itself all the way out despite threat of cancellation after season 4, and it still has a rabid following.

 

Yes, and what else has come of it? Less than twenty novels, a few made-for-TV movies, and that's it. No new material, no large dedicated conventions, and a fraction of the fanbase of Trek, Star Wars, BSG, or SG. It's in Andromeda territory.

 

Plus, under threat of cancellation, they scrapped a lot of good plotlines, and as a result season 4 was very low-quality compared to the rest. The rogue telepath colony storyline was supposed to wrap up after three or four episodes and instead went three-quarters of the season. More Lyta Alexander is not what that show needed.

[Youk Of The Nation]

And again, I think what some people are missing is that "Front Office" is a very broad term. There is not a lot of overlap between people who manage the games and players and people who make decisions about media employees. I doubt Cherington/Dombrowski or anyone on their staff had anything to do with this decision.