2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[SoxnCycles]

He also had several years more of practice as well as being an AL guy all the way (which matters a bit less since he was a RF in Cleveland) ... Hanley's first year in LF has been awful. The bat is what makes the whole package irredeemable.

 

Also, watching the games doesn't exempt having seven years in the past clouded by the fact that he brought a lot to the total package.

 

Exactly.

Manny has always been an OF.

Considering his experience, he SHOULD have been a lot better than he was, never mind better than Hanley.

 

If Hanley was hitting like he should, fans would have a lot more patience with his fielding.

Seems like "watching the games" makes some folks a bit foggy.

[a700hitter]

Hanley should have been moved to 1B at least a month ago. He very well may suck just as bad there, or he may be fine. That's something that needs to be determined during what is essentially extended spring training. If he sucks at 1B, there's still time to try him at 3B and Flablo at 1B. If he's uncooperative and refusing these moves, he needs to be moved to another team.

 

Also, Kelly should have been moved to the bullpen at least a month ago. He could be Andrew Miller part 2. And Cherington should have been fired at least a month ago.

Agreed. They have the unfortunate luxury of having 6 weeks to make these determinations. If they wait until the offseason, and then tell us that hanley should be able to play 1B because he is athletic and is by trade an infielder that would be ridiculous. Similarly, they need to figure out if Kelly has any useful role on the 2016 staff. Starting is out. No way no how can he be a starter, so let's see him work out of the pen.

[Kimmi]

He also had several years more of practice as well as being an AL guy all the way (which matters a bit less since he was a RF in Cleveland) ... Hanley's first year in LF has been awful. The bat is what makes the whole package irredeemable.

 

Also, watching the games doesn't exempt having seven years in the past clouded by the fact that he brought a lot to the total package.

 

Manny did some things well in LF, but despite that, he was an overall terrible defender. However, even in his worst defensive years, which rival Hanley's year this year, Manny was a 3 WAR player because of his offense.

 

The FO was not blind to Hanley's defensive shortcomings. Yes, they were hopeful that he might play LF better than he played SS. But even if he didn't, they figured, and rightly so, that he would be a roughly 3 WAR player at least.

[Kimmi]

Exactly.

Manny has always been an OF.

Considering his experience, he SHOULD have been a lot better than he was, never mind better than Hanley.

 

If Hanley was hitting like he should, fans would have a lot more patience with his fielding.

Seems like "watching the games" makes some folks a bit foggy.

 

Sometimes, you just make too much sense.

[Kimmi]

Agreed. They have the unfortunate luxury of having 6 weeks to make these determinations. If they wait until the offseason, and then tell us that hanley should be able to play 1B because he is athletic and is by trade an infielder that would be ridiculous. Similarly, they need to figure out if Kelly has any useful role on the 2016 staff. Starting is out. No way no how can he be a starter, so let's see him work out of the pen.

 

I happen to agree that if the Sox have any inkling of moving Hanley to 1B or moving Kelly to the pen that they should be doing it now.

[reYoukilis]

Manny did some things well in LF, but despite that, he was an overall terrible defender. However, even in his worst defensive years, which rival Hanley's year this year, Manny was a 3 WAR player because of his offense.

 

The FO was not blind to Hanley's defensive shortcomings. Yes, they were hopeful that he might play LF better than he played SS. But even if he didn't, they figured, and rightly so, that he would be a roughly 3 WAR player at least.

Well they need to stop getting people like that. Even if his bat was up to par, I thought great defense was supposed to be a part of making our pitching better. This move flies in the face of that, even on paper.

[Bellhorn04]

I happen to agree that if the Sox have any inkling of moving Hanley to 1B or moving Kelly to the pen that they should be doing it now.

 

No such luck, I'm afraid.

 

Scott Lauber ‏@ScottLauber Lovullo intends to play Betts, Hanley pretty much every day, which means JBJ/Castillo will rotate thru lineup, mostly in RF

 

They are determined to mismanage the season from beginning to end.

[a700hitter]

Iî

No such luck, I'm afraid.

 

Scott Lauber ‏@ScottLauber Lovullo intends to play Betts, Hanley pretty much every day, which means JBJ/Castillo will rotate thru lineup, mostly in RF

 

They are determined to mismanage the season from beginning to end.

What is worse than having a bad strategy is a stubborn adherence to that strategy long after it is obvious that it is failing.

[a700hitter]

This doesn't seem to make any sense for the Dodgers

Dodgers, Red Sox Discussing Alejandro De Aza

 

By Jeff Todd [August 17, 2015 at 4:25pm CDT]

 

The Dodgers and Red Sox are engaged in trade talks regarding outfielder Alejandro De Aza, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). Boston acquired De Aza from the Orioles in early June.

 

Per the report, the Dodgers are considering De Aza as an alternative acquisition target to Chase Utley. While the two obviously don’t play the same position, Rosenthal suggests that adding De Aza would allow Los Angeles to continue deploying Kike Hernandez at second base in place of the injured Howie Kendrick.

 

In spite of that explanation, it seems a curious fit unless another move is also being contemplated. De Aza hits from the left side, and the Dodgers already have three left-handed-hitting outfielders in Andre Ethier, Carl Crawford, and Joc Pederson. And it’s not as if the 31-year-old De Aza posts reverse platoon splits; to the contrary, he’s been far more productive against right-handed pitching this season and over his career. (The same holds true of the team’s incumbent options.)

 

De Aza does have some extra flexibility given his extensive (though somewhat outdated) experience in center field. But the same can be said to greater or lesser extent of the three players just mentioned — including, of course, the team’s current up-the-middle defender, Pederson.

 

The major difference between De Aza and the in-house veterans lies in the contractual realm. Boston only took on $1MM of his salary in acquiring him from the Orioles, and he’ll hit free agency after the season, so he’s a cheap rental piece at this point. Ethier ($38MM over two seasons) and Crawford ($41.75MM over two seasons) come with significant guarantees after the current year, though both have been rather productive at the plate. It’s conceivable, at least, that Los Angeles would have interest in an immediate replacement for either player if they found a trade partner willing to take on a piece of the future obligations.

 

While he’s best as a platoon player or fourth outfielder, De Aza is a useful piece — he’s slashed .313/.362/.520 since coming over to Boston. And it’s fairly clear that he holds more function to a team other than the cellar-dwelling Red Sox. But it’s also not immediately apparent that he makes a ton of sense for the Dodgers, as that team’s roster is currently structured.

 

Of course, being that it’s August, De Aza would need either to be claimed by the Dodgers or have already passed through revocable waivers to be dealt. It has not been reported whether or when De Aza was placed on waivers.

[reYoukilis]

No such luck, I'm afraid.

 

Scott Lauber ‏@ScottLauber Lovullo intends to play Betts, Hanley pretty much every day, which means JBJ/Castillo will rotate thru lineup, mostly in RF

 

They are determined to mismanage the season from beginning to end.

Unfortunately that was the most probable outcome to this situation. The problem was getting him in the first place. It also interferes with the chemistry and confidence finally developing in the young outfielders.

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox should just trade JBJ if they can't give him an honest chance to win the job.

[SoxHop]

The way this is playing out. It looks like Hanley will be our left fielder next year unless he or Sandoval is moved.

 

I played infield when I was playing. I was very very good.

 

When I tried to play the outfield...... I was very very bad....... had no instinct for it. Pop ups, no problem..... outfield..... no way.

 

Hanley better practice his ass off during the off season......

[cp176]

The coaching staff's defense of Hanley Ramirez does not make them look supportive. It makes them look stubbornly stupid. To say that he deserves more time in left field than either Castillo or JBJ is incredible. They would be more praise worthy if they just shut their mouths, put him somewhere else, or admitted that they might have made a mistake. He could be the major league's worst defender at any position. His bat just doesn't make up for his poor fielding.

[a700hitter]

The coaching staff's defense of Hanley Ramirez does not make them look supportive. It makes them look stubbornly stupid. To say that he deserves more time in left field than either Castillo or JBJ is incredible. They would be more praise worthy if they just shut their mouths, put him somewhere else, or admitted that they might have made a mistake. He could be the major league's worst defender at any position. His bat just doesn't make up for his poor fielding.

if Ortiz wasn't 40 years old, they would be much better with him at first base and Hanley DHing. They can't do that because Ortiz is still the heart of the offense and he would break down rather quickly playing the field every day. Ortiz is like Keith Hernandez at first base compared to Hanley in LF.

 

If the Padres would do an even swap of Shields for Panda, the Red Sox should jump at that. It would solve the Hanley OF problem by putting him at third base. It would also begin the process of improving the pitching. Since we would be swapping salaries, we would still have funds to bring two more top arms on board.

 

It would have the added benefit of saving the team from more embarrassment as Panda is likely one day to hit the field covered in powdered sugar like a big donut.

[a700hitter]

As such, general manager Ben Cherington said recently it is “unlikely” Ramirez will play another position this season, and Lovullo doubled down by saying Ramirez merits more regular time in left field than Jackie Bradley Jr. or Rusney Castillo the rest of the way.

This is beyond stupid. It is obstinant defiance of the obvious.

[a700hitter]

I am sorry to be insulting our GM like this, but this guy is senseless. Edited August 18, 2015 by a700hitter

[SoxHop]

No such luck, I'm afraid.

 

Scott Lauber ‏@ScottLauber Lovullo intends to play Betts, Hanley pretty much every day, which means JBJ/Castillo will rotate thru lineup, mostly in RF

 

They are determined to mismanage the season from beginning to end.

 

I don't like it at all, but with the current roster and looking forward to next year, I think it is the correct move.

 

I don't believe H-Ram should be at first. The way I look at it is he can do the least amount of damage in left. We also have to bank on his hitting turning around next year.

 

So, since it looks like Hanley will be next years left fielder...... he should get as much practice as he can for next year.

[sk7326]

The coaching staff's defense of Hanley Ramirez does not make them look supportive. It makes them look stubbornly stupid. To say that he deserves more time in left field than either Castillo or JBJ is incredible. They would be more praise worthy if they just shut their mouths, put him somewhere else, or admitted that they might have made a mistake. He could be the major league's worst defender at any position. His bat just doesn't make up for his poor fielding.

 

The bat doesn't make up for the poor fielding - but it could (and that has been the bigger issue).

 

It doesn't matter how it looks to us, it matters how it looks to the other guys. Whether the coaches are defending a fraud, or backing a guy who has put up with a lot of crap. (I don't know what the clubhouse answer is to that)

[a700hitter]

I don't like it at all, but with the current roster and looking forward to next year, I think it is the correct move.

 

I don't believe H-Ram should be at first. The way I look at it is he can do the least amount of damage in left. We also have to bank on his hitting turning around next year.

 

So, since it looks like Hanley will be next years left fielder...... he should get as much practice as he can for next year.

He can do tremendous damage in the OF. Every misplay results in extra bases. He has no aptitide for the OF at all. He was an IFer, and although not a GGer, he wasn't the worst position fielder in baseball. Also, jis IF errors would be singles. Is there anything to lose by giving him a trail look-see in the last 6 weeks of 2015?

[sk7326]

I don't like it at all, but with the current roster and looking forward to next year, I think it is the correct move.

 

I don't believe H-Ram should be at first. The way I look at it is he can do the least amount of damage in left. We also have to bank on his hitting turning around next year.

 

So, since it looks like Hanley will be next years left fielder...... he should get as much practice as he can for next year.

 

If he's putting up a .322 wOBA he is causing tremendous damage at either position. As far as playing 1B now - you can argue it either way. There is plenty of time for a position change, and if a guy is not comfortable taking the test cold, it is hard to blame him. That said, keeping him in LF is a good argument for rotating Betts between CF and RF based on when Bradley plays, to maximize the amount of help Ramirez can get. We know the Red Sox in days of yore shaded Damon or Crisp or Ellsbury and whomever towards Manny to help babysit him. So something like that is doable. Trick is the bat still has to play, and that is particularly concerning.

[a700hitter]

No, the Hanley in LF experimaent has to end. It is untenable. An everyday player has to at least be proficient at making the routine plays. He is not.

[SoxHop]

He can do tremendous damage in the OF. Every misplay results in extra bases. He has no aptitide for the OF at all. He was an IFer, and although not a GGer, he wasn't the worst position fielder in baseball. Also, jis IF errors would be singles. Is there anything to lose by giving him a trail look-see in the last 6 weeks of 2015?

 

If third was open than that would be a no brainer......

 

The thing you lose putting him at first for some time is that he doesn't get practice in left.

[SoxHop]

. So something like that is doable. Trick is the bat still has to play, and that is particularly concerning.

 

It's possible that playing left is messing with his over all game. Kind of like Xander at third.

[a700hitter]

If third was open than that would be a no brainer......

 

The thing you lose putting him at first for some time is that he doesn't get practice in left.

Yes, I agree about third base being the no-brainer. It is starting to look like there is an IQ deficiency in the FO. I see your point about sacrificing practice time in LF, but we do owe these other guys playing time. We need to see what we really have in Bradley. Has he turned the corner. We have 72 million reasons to get Castillo on his feet and performing well. Betts needs to play too. Hanley is handsomely paid. He should be taking extra fielding practice. Has anyone read about that? He doesn't need game conditions to practice. What about winter ball if he needs game conditions to improve. This learning process on the big stage has been a huge failure.

[cp176]

The bat doesn't make up for the poor fielding - but it could (and that has been the bigger issue).

 

It doesn't matter how it looks to us, it matters how it looks to the other guys. Whether the coaches are defending a fraud, or backing a guy who has put up with a lot of crap. (I don't know what the clubhouse answer is to that)

 

sk - not really sure i follow you on this one. I haven't heard about anything going on in the Red Sox clubhouse and I think that speaks well of the organization. I don't know if anyone would consider Ramirez a fraud in left-field - grossly misplaced for sure. If he is taking some crap for not being able to do a decent job out there from anyone, he at least has the satisfaction of knowing that he is being well paid. He very well might be very sensitive and misunderstood. That would not be unusual for professional athletes. The Red Sox signed him and as a result owe him more than than just a paycheck. He needs to be in a position where he can succeed. If he hits even close to his career best stats, his play in left field is still going to be incredibly noticeable. If you have 3 players who have the potential to all hit and become possibly the best fielding and throwing outfield in the game, don't you have to at least consider putting them out there together on an everyday basis? There are other options for Hanley Ramirez that should be explored.

[Spudboy]

No, the Hanley in LF experimaent has to end. It is untenable. An everyday player has to at least be proficient at making the routine plays. He is not.

 

Yup. The Sox need to come to grips with the fact that this dumb idea has just failed. Every time they run him out there we see bad plays unnecessarily.

 

Last night it was reported that Hanley had refused to take ground balls at 1st. Can't say that I am surprised by this at all.

 

I say cut the lazy entitled f***. And I would refuse to pay his ass since he refuses to do as he is told. The CBA probably prevents this but it is what should be done in the real world.

 

Somehow the Sox need to unload both of the stiffs and eat about half the money.

 

Moving on will not be possible while these two stiffs drag the team down.

[a700hitter]

Yup. The Sox need to come to grips with the fact that this dumb idea has just failed. Every time they run him out there we see bad plays unnecessarily.

 

Last night it was reported that Hanley had refused to take ground balls at 1st. Can't say that I am surprised by this at all.

 

I say cut the lazy entitled f***. And I would refuse to pay his ass since he refuses to do as he is told. The CBA probably prevents this but it is what should be done in the real world.

 

Somehow the Sox need to unload both of the stiffs and eat about half the money.

 

Moving on will not be possible while these two stiffs drag the team down.

But what about that huge revenue stream from selling stuffed Panda's?

[jacksonianmarch]

So it looks like Shaw has earned his way into the lineup. There is absolutely no reason to continue the Hanley experiment and he is supposedly banged up. Make him the part time player, use JBJ and Castillo full time to see who you want to keep come the offseason and go from there. So many weird decisions in Boston, and the choices appear to not have the future in mind. I am not sure if Cherington has given up on the team yet, but he probably should. Seeing if JBJ can play in these last 6 weeks of the season is going to be critical in determining if he stays with the team next year. I think he is out of options for next yr

[sk7326]

sk - not really sure i follow you on this one. I haven't heard about anything going on in the Red Sox clubhouse and I think that speaks well of the organization. I don't know if anyone would consider Ramirez a fraud in left-field - grossly misplaced for sure. If he is taking some crap for not being able to do a decent job out there from anyone, he at least has the satisfaction of knowing that he is being well paid. He very well might be very sensitive and misunderstood. That would not be unusual for professional athletes. The Red Sox signed him and as a result owe him more than than just a paycheck. He needs to be in a position where he can succeed. If he hits even close to his career best stats, his play in left field is still going to be incredibly noticeable. If you have 3 players who have the potential to all hit and become possibly the best fielding and throwing outfield in the game, don't you have to at least consider putting them out there together on an everyday basis? There are other options for Hanley Ramirez that should be explored.

 

If defending him publicly for the rest of this season is the best move for the team clubhousewise, then I do get it. We know that John Valentin was deemed the everyday shortstop right until he wasn't. If pulling Ramirez from LF hurts the manager's credibility with the guys for instance, then it makes sense not to. That's all. We know that position switches, as silly as they are, can sometimes require international diplomacy and whatnot. I am not going to necessarily fault however it gets handled. There is plenty of time to make the decision.

 

Longer term I am pretty sure Bradley is going to play CF for somebody next season. There is still far more evidence he cannot hit big league pitching than otherwise, but obviously the past week and change has been encouraging. We've noted before, if Bradley can be a .310 OBP with that glove, that is a quality starter.

[sk7326]

So it looks like Shaw has earned his way into the lineup. There is absolutely no reason to continue the Hanley experiment and he is supposedly banged up. Make him the part time player, use JBJ and Castillo full time to see who you want to keep come the offseason and go from there. So many weird decisions in Boston, and the choices appear to not have the future in mind. I am not sure if Cherington has given up on the team yet, but he probably should. Seeing if JBJ can play in these last 6 weeks of the season is going to be critical in determining if he stays with the team next year. I think he is out of options for next yr

 

Shaw has had a nice couple of weeks. Not sure he is a 1B solution, but he could be part of one.