2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[a700hitter]

Was it ever proven that Papi used steroids or is he in the same boat of blame as Jeff Bagwell? No proof but they done too well not to use

We don't know who has used (except for those who got caught) and who didn't. It doesn't really matter to me. If the guy is going to hit 40 bombs for us I'd root for him. We have probably unknowingly been rooting for many cheaters throughout the years.

[BigPapi]

We don't know who has used (except for those who got caught) and who didn't. It doesn't really matter to me. If the guy is going to hit 40 bombs for us I'd root for him. We have probably unknowingly been rooting for many cheaters throughout the years.

 

Thats how I see it. How could you hate on Manny or Papi for roid use when from 2004- 2006 the two of them averaged nearly 100 hrs and 300 rbis a year. That is just ridiculous production.

[waltr]

Ogando Ogando Ogando!!!

[waltr]

If he threw a shot put up there, somebody would hit it out of the park

[waltr]

Williams and Stephens 83 HR 278 RBI no steroids

[sk7326]

I don't think it's a lack of athleticism that is at the root of Hanley's defensive woes. I think it's a lack of being in the game 100% mentally. I don't think it's intentional on his part.

 

And to be fair - for the defensive woes he has had, it is his inability to HIT which has been the bigger issue. He has been had in LF, but by any flavor of measurement, Manny being Manny was every bit the butcher and at times worse. But he also flat out raked. His .322 wOBA (worst in 3 years, among the worst of his career) and .302 OBP (flat out worst of his career) are the things which have screwed up the equation as much. He has hit poorly, far too poorly to hold up the rest of his flaws.

[sk7326]

Williams and Stephens 83 HR 278 RBI no steroids

 

And no black players, and almost certainly hopped up on amphetamines

[reYoukilis]

I don't think it's a lack of athleticism that is at the root of Hanley's defensive woes. I think it's a lack of being in the game 100% mentally. I don't think it's intentional on his part.

I believe that and is why I didn't like his or Pandas signing. Bad example to the prospects.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned,I don't think, is that Hanley had been a SS so he might have a better feel for the infield than outfield.

 

But if Shaw does well, keep him there.

[Kimmi]

Either way his mind isn't in the game and he is a detriment to the team. Lack of of intent is not a Plus. Sorry, but that is BS.

 

I didn't say lack of intent was a plus.

 

Would I prefer a player who was playing badly but trying his hardest over a player who was playing badly because he didn't care? Absolutely. Would I prefer Hanley being bad in LF because he is a flake over Hanley being bad in LF because he is a malcontent. Absolutely.

 

Intent does matter.

[Kimmi]

He may have taken steroids but he's not A-Rod. At least he was quiet about the whole thing and ready to move on.

 

Fair enough point. ARod is a snake.

[a700hitter]

I didn't say lack of intent was a plus.

 

Would I prefer a player who was playing badly but trying his hardest over a player who was playing badly because he didn't care? Absolutely. Would I prefer Hanley being bad in LF because he is a flake over Hanley being bad in LF because he is a malcontent. Absolutely.

 

Intent does matter.

No one ever accused him of deliberately being a malcontent, so why bring it up?

[Kimmi]

We don't know who has used (except for those who got caught) and who didn't. It doesn't really matter to me. If the guy is going to hit 40 bombs for us I'd root for him. We have probably unknowingly been rooting for many cheaters throughout the years.

 

If they are on the team, you really have no choice but to root for them. But that doesn't mean the FO should knowingly bring cheaters to the team.

[Kimmi]

And to be fair - for the defensive woes he has had, it is his inability to HIT which has been the bigger issue. He has been had in LF, but by any flavor of measurement, Manny being Manny was every bit the butcher and at times worse. But he also flat out raked. His .322 wOBA (worst in 3 years, among the worst of his career) and .302 OBP (flat out worst of his career) are the things which have screwed up the equation as much. He has hit poorly, far too poorly to hold up the rest of his flaws.

 

That's a point I've been trying to make regarding his defense. We knew his defense would likely be bad. Not as bad as it's been this season, but his defense has always been bad. Even with that, he's always been a very good overall player because his offense has been good enough to overcome the poor defense. There is no way that Hanley should be worse than replacement level.

[Kimmi]

I believe that and is why I didn't like his or Pandas signing. Bad example to the prospects.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned,I don't think, is that Hanley had been a SS so he might have a better feel for the infield than outfield.

 

But if Shaw does well, keep him there.

 

Because he has been a SS, and he has played some 3B, I would prefer to move him to 3B over moving him to 1B.

[Kimmi]

No one ever accused him of deliberately being a malcontent, so why bring it up?

 

I'm pretty sure you are the one who started this argument.

[a700hitter]

I'm pretty sure you are the one who started this argument.

The discussion was regarding whether he could play 1B. I say give it a shot in 2015 to see if it is a possibility. You were skeptical because of his lack of focus, which you stated was not intentional. No one else brought up either his lack of focus and whether or not it is deliberate. I asked you why intent was important. That is how it started.

[sk7326]

The discussion was regarding whether he could play 1B. I say give it a shot in 2015 to see if it is a possibility. You were skeptical because of his lack of focus, which you stated was not intentional. No one else brought up either his lack of focus and whether or not it is deliberate. I asked you why intent was important. That is how it started.

 

If he is this poor offensively, there aren't many places they can play him

[a700hitter]

And to be fair - for the defensive woes he has had, it is his inability to HIT which has been the bigger issue. He has been had in LF, but by any flavor of measurement, Manny being Manny was every bit the butcher and at times worse. But he also flat out raked. His .322 wOBA (worst in 3 years, among the worst of his career) and .302 OBP (flat out worst of his career) are the things which have screwed up the equation as much. He has hit poorly, far too poorly to hold up the rest of his flaws.

Manny was Yaz compare to Hanley.

 

But I do agree that his offense does not justify or make up for his defensive shortcomings, which is why I think they need to shed him.

[sk7326]

Manny was Yaz compare to Hanley.

 

It is amazing how the flaws turn into eccentricities when the guy, say, hit more than a measly 9 or 10 doubles

[a700hitter]

If he is this poor offensively, there aren't many places they can play him

Agreed.

[a700hitter]

It is amazing how the flaws turn into eccentricities when the guy, say, hit more than a measly 9 or 10 doubles

No, it is not about that. Manny played shallow and got to a lot of balls that since he left have fallen in as base hits. He also had a pretty good idea of how to play caroms off the wall, and while he had only average arm strength, he got rid of the ball very quickly and he was pretty accurate. He was far better than Hanley.

[sk7326]

No, it is not about that. Manny played shallow and got to a lot of balls that since he left have fallen in as base hits. He also had a pretty good idea of how to play caroms off the wall, and while he had only average arm strength, he got rid of the ball very quickly and he was pretty accurate. He was far better than Hanley.

 

He was also terrible on the road, and forced Ellsbury or Damon to effectively play two positions at the same time.

[a700hitter]

He was also terrible on the road, and forced Ellsbury or Damon to effectively play two positions at the same time.

I am not saying Manny hould have won a gold glove, but he was much better than Hanley.

[Kimmi]

The discussion was regarding whether he could play 1B. I say give it a shot in 2015 to see if it is a possibility. You were skeptical because of his lack of focus, which you stated was not intentional. No one else brought up either his lack of focus and whether or not it is deliberate. I asked you why intent was important. That is how it started.

 

I am allowed to state my reasons for why I think something may or may not work. Also, I am allowed to defend my opinions when someone questions them. If that involves using "malcontent" to make my point, then I will bring it up. Why question why I brought something up?

[a700hitter]

I am allowed to state my reasons for why I think something may or may not work. Also, I am allowed to defend my opinions when someone questions them. If that involves using "malcontent" to make my point, then I will bring it up. Why question why I brought something up?

I wanted to understand whether you thought it was a significant point in explaining why he would stink at 1B. In my mind, whether his air headedness is deliberate or not really has no significance at all with regard to why he will stink at 1B.

[Spudboy]

No, it is not about that. Manny played shallow and got to a lot of balls that since he left have fallen in as base hits. He also had a pretty good idea of how to play caroms off the wall, and while he had only average arm strength, he got rid of the ball very quickly and he was pretty accurate. He was far better than Hanley.

 

All true.

 

Of course you really do have to watch the games to know this.

[mvp 78]

Manny was serviceable in LF. Hanley is barely better than Wily Mo was. Scary.

[a700hitter]

All true.

 

Of course you really do have to watch the games to know this.

Shhh! We don't want to start a war (small "w") with those who think those of us who watch all the games don't also look at or understand stats inluding W.A.R.

[sk7326]

All true.

 

Of course you really do have to watch the games to know this.

 

He also had several years more of practice as well as being an AL guy all the way (which matters a bit less since he was a RF in Cleveland) ... Hanley's first year in LF has been awful. The bat is what makes the whole package irredeemable.

 

Also, watching the games doesn't exempt having seven years in the past clouded by the fact that he brought a lot to the total package.

[jd98]

Hanley should have been moved to 1B at least a month ago. He very well may suck just as bad there, or he may be fine. That's something that needs to be determined during what is essentially extended spring training. If he sucks at 1B, there's still time to try him at 3B and Flablo at 1B. If he's uncooperative and refusing these moves, he needs to be moved to another team.

 

Also, Kelly should have been moved to the bullpen at least a month ago. He could be Andrew Miller part 2. And Cherington should have been fired at least a month ago.

Edited August 17, 2015 by jd98