2015 MLB Gamethread

[Palodios]

Royals managed to re-sign Alex Gordon. Their message boards are absolutely overjoyed this morning -- way more than us after Price. Its always fun to see team heroes returning to small market teams.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Griffey and Piazza in the HOF today.

 

Griffey set a new record for voting percentage, 99.3, or 437 out of 440. In related news, police are searching for a can-opener-wielding maniac who has been stalking and forcibly lobotomizing baseball writers. He is suspected to have claimed at least three victims.

 

Both were great choices. Raines and Bagwell will probably be voted in next year, and they'll both deserve it. Martinez is once again shafted by a bunch of doddering guys who hate the DH and probably night games, batting helmets, and integration. Trammell and McGwire are both gone. Schilling and Mussina both didn't get nearly as many votes as they should have, but I think both will be in the HOF in four or five years.

 

However, I do have one serious problem with the voting, and that is Trevor Hoffman. He should have been in on the first ballot, and given that we all know that Mariano Rivera is going to make it on the first ballot, Hoffman being left out is a travesty.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Oh and one guy voted for Garrett Anderson. Two guys voted for Jason Kendall. And three voted for Mike Sweeney. It is far, far past time for them to completely dismantle and rebuild the voting process.

[Northern Star]

Griffey and Piazza in the HOF today.

 

Griffey set a new record for voting percentage, 99.3, or 437 out of 440. In related news, police are searching for a can-opener-wielding maniac who has been stalking and forcibly lobotomizing baseball writers. He is suspected to have claimed at least three victims.

 

Both were great choices. Raines and Bagwell will probably be voted in next year, and they'll both deserve it. Martinez is once again shafted by a bunch of doddering guys who hate the DH and probably night games, batting helmets, and integration. Trammell and McGwire are both gone. Schilling and Mussina both didn't get nearly as many votes as they should have, but I think both will be in the HOF in four or five years.

 

However, I do have one serious problem with the voting, and that is Trevor Hoffman. He should have been in on the first ballot, and given that we all know that Mariano Rivera is going to make it on the first ballot, Hoffman being left out is a travesty.

 

If Babe Ruth can't get 100% no one can.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I hope you're mocking those sportswriters and not being serious, because I have heard that said before, and every time it sounds even stupider. Babe Ruth didn't get in unanimously because even decades ago, people sucked. Someone didn't vote for him because he said something mean to them once. Somebody didn't vote for Hank Aaron or Willie Mays probably because they still hate black people (It was a while ago, and with 400 people voting, there had to be at least one racist in there, right?). Someone didn't vote for Ted Williams because he had an occasional reputation as 'unfriendly to the media/fans'. Someone didn't vote for Ty Cobb because Ty Cobb was one of the most unlikable human beings in the history of human civilization. Any reason that people come up with that doesn't include something related to the player's on-field achievements is just stupid. The past is the past. Just because someone didn't get in unanimously fifty or sixty or seventy years ago, does not mean that people shouldn't get in unanimously now. Ken Griffey Jr. put up amazing numbers for years, and let himself fall apart like a snowman in early spring during the midst of the steroid era. There was never a hint of PED suspicion surrounding him. He could have taken them and maybe, just maybe extended his career and stats a little bit, staved off some of the physical deterioration. But he didn't, at least, it seems that way, and without evidence or even innuendo, that should be good enough. But even without the nobility of pure play during a dirty time, he was still, by the numbers and by the heart, one of the greatest outfielders to ever play the game.

 

The three guys who didn't vote for him, whether it was for personal reasons or because of some ridiculous arcane superstition about unanimity, should have their voting privileges revoked and then be fed to crocodiles.

[User Name]

What the f*** did crocodiles ever do to you?

[a700hitter]

I hope you're mocking those sportswriters and not being serious, because I have heard that said before, and every time it sounds even stupider. Babe Ruth didn't get in unanimously because even decades ago, people sucked. Someone didn't vote for him because he said something mean to them once. Somebody didn't vote for Hank Aaron or Willie Mays probably because they still hate black people (It was a while ago, and with 400 people voting, there had to be at least one racist in there, right?). Someone didn't vote for Ted Williams because he had an occasional reputation as 'unfriendly to the media/fans'. Someone didn't vote for Ty Cobb because Ty Cobb was one of the most unlikable human beings in the history of human civilization. Any reason that people come up with that doesn't include something related to the player's on-field achievements is just stupid. The past is the past. Just because someone didn't get in unanimously fifty or sixty or seventy years ago, does not mean that people shouldn't get in unanimously now. Ken Griffey Jr. put up amazing numbers for years, and let himself fall apart like a snowman in early spring during the midst of the steroid era. There was never a hint of PED suspicion surrounding him. He could have taken them and maybe, just maybe extended his career and stats a little bit, staved off some of the physical deterioration. But he didn't, at least, it seems that way, and without evidence or even innuendo, that should be good enough. But even without the nobility of pure play during a dirty time, he was still, by the numbers and by the heart, one of the greatest outfielders to ever play the game.

 

The three guys who didn't vote for him, whether it was for personal reasons or because of some ridiculous arcane superstition about unanimity, should have their voting privileges revoked and then be fed to crocodiles.

The first Hall of Fame class was elected in 1936. There was a backlog of several generations of retired players. The backlog situation still existed until the early 1970's, which is why it used to be a very big deal if someone was elected on his first ballot. Today, first ballot does not carry the same significance. It was because of the backlog in 1936 that many All Time greats did not get unanimous votes.

[Northern Star]

What the f*** did crocodiles ever do to you?

 

Gave him a blow job, apparently.

[Northern Star]

The first Hall of Fame class was elected in 1936. There was a backlog of several generations of retired players. The backlog situation still existed until the early 1970's, which is why it used to be a very big deal if someone was elected on his first ballot. Today, first ballot does not carry the same significance. It was because of the backlog in 1936 that many All Time greats did not get unanimous votes.

 

Weak argument for not voting for Ruth.

[a700hitter]

Weak argument for not voting for Ruth.

Agreed. It is just the explanation that I have heard. I am sure that he had a few writers that hated him.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I am with you Youk. The three morons who decided not to vote for Ken Griffey Jr should not be allowed to vote anymore.

[Palodios]

It's about time we got over players who used steroids. Especially the ones who were encouraged and celebrated by the league at the time.

 

McGwire averaged 55 HR per full season. He belongs in the hall of fame.

[Youk Of The Nation]

You know, now that I really think about it, there aren't many problems in the world today that couldn't be solved by feeding one or more people to crocodiles. In fact, the only problem I can think of that wouldn't be solved by this is crocodile overpopulation.

[Bellhorn04]

It's about time we got over players who used steroids. Especially the ones who were encouraged and celebrated by the league at the time.

 

McGwire averaged 55 HR per full season. He belongs in the hall of fame.

 

Major optics problem. During his playing days McGwire looked like he could give Thor a go in an arm wrestle. When he appeared before Congress he looked like a pitiful, embarrassed dweeb.

[SoxnCycles]

If they're going to vote in "known" steroid users, they'll need to take a close look at their careers.

 

You could argue that Bonds was a great player before he decided to cheat.

McGwire, not so much.

 

Personally, I'm ok with not letting blatant users in.

[User Name]

McGwire shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Bonds. I'm on the fence about it, but goddamn Bonds was good before any steroid allegations surfaced.

[Palodios]

It is the hall of fame. It not the hall of fairness. It is not the hall of people we agree with. It is not the hall of players who didn't break rules that were enforced after they left the game.

 

If a player provided a career or seasons that could be among the best of all time, they belong.

[Bellhorn04]

It is the hall of fame. It not the hall of fairness. It is not the hall of people we agree with. It is not the hall of players who didn't break rules that were enforced after they left the game.

 

If a player provided a career or seasons that could be among the best of all time, they belong.

 

I respect your position absolutely.

 

Myself, I think McGwire and Sosa and Bonds made a mockery of the home run record and brought all their numbers into question, and they are paying the price for it.

 

OTOH if thinking changes and some of these guys do get in eventually I can accept it.

[User Name]

That would be a good argument, if steroids hadn't been banned for use by MLB since 1991. It was testing that began after Bonds', MM's, and Sosa's career was over. Then again, amphetamines were banned when some guys who are current members of the HOF were using them, so MLB is pretty hypocritical about the whole banned substance thing. However, hanging your argument on the fact that "it wasn't illegal when they were doing it" is very much incorrect, since it very much was.

 

This is in response to Palodios.

[User Name]

I respect your position absolutely.

 

Myself, I think McGwire and Sosa and Bonds made a mockery of the home run record and brought all their numbers into question, and they are paying the price for it.

 

OTOH if thinking changes and some of these guys do get in eventually I can accept it.

 

Hank Aaron used greenies. Did he make a mockery of the HR record?

[Palodios]

That would be a good argument, if steroids hadn't been banned for use by MLB since 1991. It was testing that began after Bonds', MM's, and Sosa's career was over. Then again, amphetamines were banned when some guys who are current members of the HOF were using them, so MLB is pretty hypocritical about the whole banned substance thing. However, hanging your argument on the fact that "it wasn't illegal when they were doing it" is very much incorrect, since it very much was.

 

This is in response to Palodios.

 

I used the word "enforced" in my last post. The MLB didn't give a flying f*** about steroids when they were swimming in money until afterwards.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Palodios

[Bellhorn04]

Hank Aaron used greenies. Did he make a mockery of the HR record?

 

I can't really answer that question.

 

The most HR he ever hit in a single season was 47 though. That's a far cry from what the 3 guys I mentioned did.

[User Name]

I used the word "enforced" in my last post. The MLB didn't give a flying f*** about steroids when they were swimming in money until afterwards.

 

Didn't enforce because it didn't test for. The point still stands. Why have guidelines if you're not going to follow them? (Character clause). I will admit though, and I mentioned this in my post, that if they allowed amphetamine users, they should let in users of other PED's as well. I am very much on the fence about this.

[User Name]

I can't really answer that question.

 

The most HR he ever hit in a single season was 47 though. That's a far cry from what the 3 guys I mentioned did.

 

But it doesn't take away from the fact that he used a banned substance that helps with both performance and the ability to withstand the grueling schedule of a baseball season.

[SoxnCycles]

But it doesn't take away from the fact that he used a banned substance that helps with both performance and the ability to withstand the grueling schedule of a baseball season.

 

I get the "helps deal with the grind of a long season" part, but what do greenies do for day-to-day performance?

[User Name]

I get the "helps deal with the grind of a long season" part, but what do greenies do for day-to-day performance?

 

Sharpens focus. That's why adderall is a banned substance too. Thats a pretty significant performance edge.

[cp176]

I used the word "enforced" in my last post. The MLB didn't give a flying f*** about steroids when they were swimming in money until afterwards.

 

I also am very much up in the air over this one. It might be a good thing that HOF voters still have the perogative to vote for whoever they want to no matter how ridiculous some of the votes and non-votes look. This name will keep me questioning for a long time - Raphael Palmeiro.

[Kimmi]

Oh and one guy voted for Garrett Anderson. Two guys voted for Jason Kendall. And three voted for Mike Sweeney. It is far, far past time for them to completely dismantle and rebuild the voting process.

 

I agree with you that the voting process needs to be rebuilt. Not only with HOF voting, but with some of the other awards as well. Some of the reasons why some voters will not vote for a certain player are just crazy.

 

The whole idea that some voters have that relief pitchers or DHs are not worthy of being in the HOF is ridiculous. Hoffman should be in and so should Edgar Martinez.

[Kimmi]

If they're going to vote in "known" steroid users, they'll need to take a close look at their careers.

 

You could argue that Bonds was a great player before he decided to cheat.

McGwire, not so much.

 

Personally, I'm ok with not letting blatant users in.

 

I have a very hard time with the idea of letting someone like Bonds, McGwire, or ARod in. It just doesn't sit right with me. It is a valid point that players already enshrined "cheated" by taking greenies, but allowing these guys in still doesn't sit right with me.

 

Even though Bonds was a great player without cheating, once he decided to cheat, he loses the honor of the HOF, IMO.

[User Name]

But does it sit right with you that known cheaters who used Amphetamines are enshrined? Because you can't have it both ways. And with them, it's the exact same case with some athletes (like Bonds) where the substance used wasn't banned when they used it. The only PED Bonds was using (per reports) was HGH, which was only banned after 2005. By that logic, Bonds, Petitte, and many others should have their cases re-examined.