Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[Spudboy]

He's talking about DR getting to the moon. They are working on advanced slingshot technology right this monent.

 

Fired from chicken driven donkeys.

[mvp 78]

Yes, of course. I asked who people saw as potential trade pieces going to Phillie from the Sox.

 

I would assume that the Sox would make a smart deal.

 

That's because you drink the kool aid. Us objective realists know he's just a boob who got lucky when the planets aligned in 2013.

[User Name]

Yes, of course. I asked who people saw as potential trade pieces going to Phillie from the Sox.

 

I would assume that the Sox would make a smart deal.

 

You shouldn't assume that! They don't have MBAs!

[mvp 78]

Spud, just listen to whatever I say. I have an MBA.

[Spudboy]

I'd feel much more comfortable with the FO if guys like Ben had coached high school ball for 30-40 years.

 

That is more of a bonifed qualification then a dime a dozen MBA.

[mvp 78]

Oh s***!

[Kimmi]

Well said, Kimmi. Pessimists expect the worst so they won't be disappointed if the worst happens. It is a self defense mechanism with most pessimists.

 

I am not telling you anything you don't already know, but we all mostly reject what contradicts with what we hold sacred, baseball or otherwise. It is part of life and being on a baseball forum. I am thankful for Fred, A700, and others because they provide debatable topics for us to discuss and argue.

 

Fortunately, some of us can embrace new theology when it emerges. The Red Sox are entering the current season with a vastly improved offense. Their starting pitching lacks a number one, but the AL east is not loaded with starting pitching. Tampa Bay might have the best staff, but their line-up is suspect. Baltimore won last year with Tillman as their ace. Boston has potentially as deep a staff as any team in the division. I am cautiously optimistic.

 

 

I am optimistic about this season. I think, or at least hope, the starting pitching will pleasantly surprise some people. Our offense should be one of the best, and our defense should be very solid. If we find that we need another starter, we have the flexibility to add one during the season. What's not to like about that?

[User Name]

I'd feel much more comfortable with the FO if guys like Ben had coached high school ball for 30-40 years.

 

That is more of a bonifed qualification then a dime a dozen MBA.

 

So you'd want fred to run this team? I cringe at the thought. Cringe, i tell ya.

[Spudboy]

I am optimistic about this season. I think, or at least hope, the starting pitching will pleasantly surprise some people. Our offense should be one of the best, and our defense should be very solid. If we find that we need another starter, we have the flexibility to add one during the season. What's not to like about that?

 

While I share your optimism about the team as a whole, I don't think the defense is all that great at the moment.

 

I'm sure that we are all happy to know that X has spent time in Arizona attempting to become more quick a foot and all. I just don't know that he will be so much better than what he was last year at short. His range and footwork / throws to first still concern me. I'm from Missouri when it comes to his ability to be better than average at his position. He has to show me.

 

Sandoval, despite being a hunk of goo, should play decent 3rd base unless he becomes injured. Pedroia will be himself, I assume. Napoili says he is a little behind schedule in his preparation because of the ghastly surgery to his face. I expect that once he catches up, he will once again be at a near Gold Glove level at first.

 

Overall, I don't believe the infield defense is so much improved. This is worrisome given the Sox professed commitment to ground ball starting pitching.

 

Now the outfield is a real question mark if not still a total mess. Bradley will not be in Center. Betts is still a novice in the outfield. Castilllo is unproven at best. Hanley is a potential disaster in Left. I'm just hoping that he can play about as well as Gomes. Victorino could return to play Gold Glove D in right field.

 

Catching appears to be a real strength defensively.

 

Overall, I can not say with a straight face that the Sox Defense is all that great.

[iortiz]

Defense better be good with all these "GB" pitchers, otherwise other teams will eat them alive.

[mvp 78]

So you'd want fred to run this team? I cringe at the thought. Cringe, i tell ya.

 

I'd only let Dojji run the team. With his roster, we could reduce ticket prices.

[Kimmi]

While I share your optimism about the team as a whole, I don't think the defense is all that great at the moment.

 

I'm sure that we are all happy to know that X has spent time in Arizona attempting to become more quick a foot and all. I just don't know that he will be so much better than what he was last year at short. His range and footwork / throws to first still concern me. I'm from Missouri when it comes to his ability to be better than average at his position. He has to show me.

 

Sandoval, despite being a hunk of goo, should play decent 3rd base unless he becomes injured. Pedroia will be himself, I assume. Napoili says he is a little behind schedule in his preparation because of the ghastly surgery to his face. I expect that once he catches up, he will once again be at a near Gold Glove level at first.

 

Overall, I don't believe the infield defense is so much improved. This is worrisome given the Sox professed commitment to ground ball starting pitching.

 

Now the outfield is a real question mark if not still a total mess. Bradley will not be in Center. Betts is still a novice in the outfield. Castilllo is unproven at best. Hanley is a potential disaster in Left. I'm just hoping that he can play about as well as Gomes. Victorino could return to play Gold Glove D in right field.

 

Catching appears to be a real strength defensively.

 

Overall, I can not say with a straight face that the Sox Defense is all that great.

 

 

IMO, the only question marks defensively, provided we have good health, are Hanley and Xander. Pedroia and Naps are Gold Glovers - not much improvement needed there.

 

Our defense at 3B last year was terrible, to the sum of -18 DRS. Sandoval playing decent 3B will be an improvement. He should be slightly above average.

 

Bogaerts improvement remains to be seen, but I am guessing that he will be improved over last year.

 

Small samples and all, but from what I've read and seen of Castillo and Betts, they are very capable of playing solid outfield defense. Hanley will probably not be that great, but I am inspired by his willingness and desire to learn his new position.

 

Overall, I think the defense will be very solid. Then again, I like Kool-Aid.

[a700hitter]

IMO, the only question marks defensively, provided we have good health, are Hanley and Xander. Pedroia and Naps are Gold Glovers - not much improvement needed there.

 

Our defense at 3B last year was terrible, to the sum of -18 DRS. Sandoval playing decent 3B will be an improvement. He should be slightly above average.

 

Bogaerts improvement remains to be seen, but I am guessing that he will be improved over last year.

 

Small samples and all, but from what I've read and seen of Castillo and Betts, they are very capable of playing solid outfield defense. Hanley will probably not be that great, but I am inspired by his willingness and desire to learn his new position.

 

Overall, I think the defense will be very solid. Then again, I like Kool-Aid.

I think the big question is XB. I do not think he was up to snuff last year, but I am encouraged to hear that he has been working hard in the off season. A good fielding SS will be critical to a sinkerball staff. As you pointed out, we are solid at second and first. In the OF, Hanley should be able to handle LF. When healthy, Victorino is one of the best RFers in the game. Castillo looked okay in CF in limited action. Keep your fingers crossed that XB takes his defense to the next level.

[cp176]

I think the big question is XB. I do not think he was up to snuff last year, but I am encouraged to hear that he has been working hard in the off season. A good fielding SS will be critical to a sinkerball staff. As you pointed out, we are solid at second and first. In the OF, Hanley should be able to handle LF. When healthy, Victorino is one of the best RFers in the game. Castillo looked okay in CF in limited action. Keep your fingers crossed that XB takes his defense to the next level.

 

Just asking but you don't see Betts in that lineup with that projected 3.6 WAR. Best on the team.

[cp176]

Nobody repeat nobody knows what they will get from this team this year. You can be as negative or as positive as you want to be. Great cases can be made for both sides. What we do know is that the Red Sox spent a ton of money during the off season.

Things could go very well or they could go the other way. They should be better offensively but once again lots of questions. Think Ramirez will see 140 + games ? Defensively we know they will be stronger at third even though some posters don't seem to like Sandoval's fitness level, he can still make plays. If Victorino is healthy, we are better in right field. Other than that, come on - poorer in left and about the same maybe a little better with respect to everywhere else. There is no reality check needed with respect to this pitching staff. Absolutely unpredictable. If past performance is what you use as your assessment tool, we might be in trouble. If you see a fairly young staff, with a few ready to blossom, then we are ok. Looks to me as though there will be a number of jobs on the line here this season. Sometimes the good ones operate very well in atmosphere like the one that has been created here. Let's hope they do. I have no money invested here, so I choose to be positive. But I am that way and have been forever because that is the way most Red Sox fans that I grew up with tend to be. It is going to be one of the more interesting seasons I think that we have seen.

[sk7326]

Nobody repeat nobody knows what they will get from this team this year. You can be as negative or as positive as you want to be. Great cases can be made for both sides. What we do know is that the Red Sox spent a ton of money during the off season.

Things could go very well or they could go the other way. They should be better offensively but once again lots of questions. Think Ramirez will see 140 + games ? Defensively we know they will be stronger at third even though some posters don't seem to like Sandoval's fitness level, he can still make plays. If Victorino is healthy, we are better in right field. Other than that, come on - poorer in left and about the same maybe a little better with respect to everywhere else. There is no reality check needed with respect to this pitching staff. Absolutely unpredictable. If past performance is what you use as your assessment tool, we might be in trouble. If you see a fairly young staff, with a few ready to blossom, then we are ok. Looks to me as though there will be a number of jobs on the line here this season. Sometimes the good ones operate very well in atmosphere like the one that has been created here. Let's hope they do. I have no money invested here, so I choose to be positive. But I am that way and have been forever because that is the way most Red Sox fans that I grew up with tend to be. It is going to be one of the more interesting seasons I think that we have seen.

 

To be fair, that we don't know anything is always true - and without idle speculation there'd be no two-bit internet Red Sox forum. You are right of course - there is considerable projection involved in rosy predictions for 2015. Given you are betting on young guys getting better, the projections are a wee bit more likely than betting on old guys getting better. But it's not like 2013 - where you were just hoping nobody got hurt again. This will be a fun season - should reveal more about what sort of boss Farrell really is.

[a700hitter]

Nobody repeat nobody knows what they will get from this team this year. You can be as negative or as positive as you want to be. Great cases can be made for both sides. What we do know is that the Red Sox spent a ton of money during the off season.

Things could go very well or they could go the other way. They should be better offensively but once again lots of questions. Think Ramirez will see 140 + games ? Defensively we know they will be stronger at third even though some posters don't seem to like Sandoval's fitness level, he can still make plays. If Victorino is healthy, we are better in right field. Other than that, come on - poorer in left and about the same maybe a little better with respect to everywhere else. There is no reality check needed with respect to this pitching staff. Absolutely unpredictable. If past performance is what you use as your assessment tool, we might be in trouble. If you see a fairly young staff, with a few ready to blossom, then we are ok. Looks to me as though there will be a number of jobs on the line here this season. Sometimes the good ones operate very well in atmosphere like the one that has been created here. Let's hope they do. I have no money invested here, so I choose to be positive. But I am that way and have been forever because that is the way most Red Sox fans that I grew up with tend to be. It is going to be one of the more interesting seasons I think that we have seen.

Yep, as the season gets closer, we will get more and more optimistic. Hopefully, this years team will not kill hope as early as last years team did.

[a700hitter]

Just asking but you don't see Betts in that lineup with that projected 3.6 WAR. Best on the team.

I'd like to see him get a lot of ABs. I think he could sub at all 3 OF positions and Victorino will probably need a couple of off days each week.

[dupree]

I just read that the Padres made a very aggressive offer for Hamels and Amaro shot it down. Ken Rosenthal has reported that Amaro would rather deal deal Boston as a trade partner instead, with a deal for Blake Swihart. I think Boston is in the drivers seat on this one in my opinion. Do we need an "Ace"? I think most fans would like to have a guy to start game one of a series that we know we are coming away with a win because that pitcher can hold the opposition to a low amount to let this high powered offense win game in and game out... Yes I think we as a collective whole of posters most would say "Yes give me an Ace". I've looked at Fangraphs and seen Hamels stats vs AL teams and given they are not great. But I do like he's age, contract $s, and him being a lefty pitcher. I know Ben has said he will go to spring training as we are and most posters have seemed to come to the thinking we are fine. I fall into that same thinking as well and hope the rotation can hold leads and give the ball to the bullpen which I think will be a strength. I like Porcello and Miley a lot and think those were great additions but I'm not as confident in Masterson bounceing back and having no struggles. But I think they made a great contract for him if he sucks. Joe Kelly is a wild card, he does good first couple times thru the lineup then he gets shelled third time thru, maybe his glasses gets fogged up the more he sweats I don't know, I wished he'd get Lasik surgery so he can throw the G specs away they look ridiculous. I think by next year he will be a bullpen arm anyways unless he is used in a trade before that. Then there's Clay. I think he takes the ball on Opening Day and I honestly think he stays healthy and shows he has Ace stuff and signs an extension during the season along with Porcello. Also I see the trade for Hamels going down. I think Ben has told Amaro that he won't put Swihart in a trade but ends up doing it during the spring or first couple months of the season. I have no clue as to what other propects or major leaguers go to Philly in the deal. One of the starting five will go down with an injury in the first couple months and Ben pushed by Larry will make the deal for Hamels. The reason I think it happens before the deadline is because by then too many teams will be in on him and the pieces to add him will be higher then in the first couple months. I also think Owens comes up when the rosters expand as throws lights out. Then he will be slotted into the rotation in 2016.

 

So I'll go ahead and say the rotation in 2016 looks like...

Hamels, Bucholtz, Porcello, Owens, Miley.

I'm just spitballing and maybe none are in the rotation next year but maybe who knows we will have to wait and see.

[seabeachfred]

To be fair, that we don't know anything is always true - and without idle speculation there'd be no two-bit internet Red Sox forum. You are right of course - there is considerable projection involved in rosy predictions for 2015. Given you are betting on young guys getting better, the projections are a wee bit more likely than betting on old guys getting better. But it's not like 2013 - where you were just hoping nobody got hurt again. This will be a fun season - should reveal more about what sort of boss Farrell really is.

 

The first clue on Farrell will be the type of Spring camp he runs. I said this many times in the past year---he did not run a good camp last Spring. He ran a kiddy nursery. Everything was put on hold, there seemed to be no urgency whatsoever and instead of pushing the envelope it was more like a country club atmosphere down at Fort Myers......and it showed from the first home series until that disgusting season mercifully ended last September. He's got to go into this year's camp with guns blazing.

[Bellhorn04]

I just read that the Padres made a very aggressive offer for Hamels and Amaro shot it down. Ken Rosenthal has reported that Amaro would rather deal deal Boston as a trade partner instead, with a deal for Blake Swihart. I think Boston is in the drivers seat on this one in my opinion. Do we need an "Ace"? I think most fans would like to have a guy to start game one of a series that we know we are coming away with a win because that pitcher can hold the opposition to a low amount to let this high powered offense win game in and game out... Yes I think we as a collective whole of posters most would say "Yes give me an Ace". I've looked at Fangraphs and seen Hamels stats vs AL teams and given they are not great. But I do like he's age, contract $s, and him being a lefty pitcher. I know Ben has said he will go to spring training as we are and most posters have seemed to come to the thinking we are fine. I fall into that same thinking as well and hope the rotation can hold leads and give the ball to the bullpen which I think will be a strength. I like Porcello and Miley a lot and think those were great additions but I'm not as confident in Masterson bounceing back and having no struggles. But I think they made a great contract for him if he sucks. Joe Kelly is a wild card, he does good first couple times thru the lineup then he gets shelled third time thru, maybe his glasses gets fogged up the more he sweats I don't know, I wished he'd get Lasik surgery so he can throw the G specs away they look ridiculous. I think by next year he will be a bullpen arm anyways unless he is used in a trade before that. Then there's Clay. I think he takes the ball on Opening Day and I honestly think he stays healthy and shows he has Ace stuff and signs an extension during the season along with Porcello. Also I see the trade for Hamels going down. I think Ben has told Amaro that he won't put Swihart in a trade but ends up doing it during the spring or first couple months of the season. I have no clue as to what other propects or major leaguers go to Philly in the deal. One of the starting five will go down with an injury in the first couple months and Ben pushed by Larry will make the deal for Hamels. The reason I think it happens before the deadline is because by then too many teams will be in on him and the pieces to add him will be higher then in the first couple months. I also think Owens comes up when the rosters expand as throws lights out. Then he will be slotted into the rotation in 2016.

 

So I'll go ahead and say the rotation in 2016 looks like...

Hamels, Bucholtz, Porcello, Owens, Miley.

I'm just spitballing and maybe none are in the rotation next year but maybe who knows we will have to wait and see.

 

If they do trade Swihart for Hamels, of course, it automatically leads to this question:

 

'Why the f*** didn't you just sign Lester?'

[mvp 78]

The first clue on Farrell will be the type of Spring camp he runs. I said this many times in the past year---he did not run a good camp last Spring. He ran a kiddy nursery. Everything was put on hold, there seemed to be no urgency whatsoever and instead of pushing the envelope it was more like a country club atmosphere down at Fort Myers......and it showed from the first home series until that disgusting season mercifully ended last September. He's got to go into this year's camp with guns blazing.

I remember everyone lauding over Bobby V's great camp. How'd that work out?

 

Baseball players workout year round now. ST is basically meaningless imo.

[a700hitter]

I remember everyone lauding over Bobby V's great camp. How'd that work out?

 

Baseball players workout year round now. ST is basically meaningless imo.

The problem wasn't Bobby V's camp. It was his alienating the veterans by making his first order of business going after Youkilis. By contrast, Tito's last camp was like the day of the zombies. A relaxed camp is one thing, but that group was sleep walking. That attitude carried over to the start of the season. They didn't realize that the regular season started until they were half way through April. Wins and losses in ST mean nothing, but players do need to ramp up to be physically and mentally ready for the opening bell.

[sk7326]

The first clue on Farrell will be the type of Spring camp he runs. I said this many times in the past year---he did not run a good camp last Spring. He ran a kiddy nursery. Everything was put on hold, there seemed to be no urgency whatsoever and instead of pushing the envelope it was more like a country club atmosphere down at Fort Myers......and it showed from the first home series until that disgusting season mercifully ended last September. He's got to go into this year's camp with guns blazing.

 

Spring Training - at least the stuff we see - proves zero. The decisions about who plays in the outfield the last two seasons were pretty strong reflections of that. As far as I can tell, Farrell and Francona did not run spring training like a kiddie camp - they treated the players like bosses treat employees in lots of actual real jobs. What Bobby did was just weird.

[a700hitter]

Spring Training - at least the stuff we see - proves zero. The decisions about who plays in the outfield the last two seasons were pretty strong reflections of that. As far as I can tell, Farrell and Francona did not run spring training like a kiddie camp - they treated the players like bosses treat employees in lots of actual real jobs. What Bobby did was just weird.

 

I really was not a Bobby V supporter. His approach of calling out Youkilis backfired on him, but I can't put all the blame on him for 2012. The FO was insistent that Bard become a starter. Bobby V knew that the kid couldn't do it. About halfway through camp, he approached Bard and asked him if he was really set on going through with being a starter. That should have been a flashing warning light to Bard that he didn't have what it takes to start. The kid was stubborn and the FO backed him. Bobby V was dropping hints all over the place that Bard wasn't progressing. Finally, when Bard blew up during the regular season, Bobby V left him in a game where he got humiliated. He hit a bunch of people and walked another bunch and it was the worst start by a starting pitcher in almost 100 years. There was no choice but to demote him after that game.

[sk7326]

I really was not a Bobby V supporter. His approach of calling out Youkilis backfired on him, but I can't put all the blame on him for 2012. The FO was insistent that Bard become a starter. Bobby V knew that the kid couldn't do it. About halfway through camp, he approached Bard and asked him if he was really set on going through with being a starter. That should have been a flashing warning light to Bard that he didn't have what it takes to start. The kid was stubborn and the FO backed him. Bobby V was dropping hints all over the place that Bard wasn't progressing. Finally, when Bard blew up during the regular season, Bobby V left him in a game where he got humiliated. He hit a bunch of people and walked another bunch and it was the worst start by a starting pitcher in almost 100 years. There was no choice but to demote him after that game.

 

Those are all Bobby V faults - not making the best of a situation where he disagreed with his bosses. He feuded with his own assistant coaches - and the idea that he didn't hire them clearly does not fly - most people don't get to choose their co-workers. I am as sympathetic to the horrible hand Bobby got dealt as anybody - no coach could have won with the injury problems the 2012 Sox had. He did a horrendous job anyway.

[a700hitter]

Those are all Bobby V faults - not making the best of a situation where he disagreed with his bosses. He feuded with his own assistant coaches - and the idea that he didn't hire them clearly does not fly - most people don't get to choose their co-workers. I am as sympathetic to the horrible hand Bobby got dealt as anybody - no coach could have won with the injury problems the 2012 Sox had. He did a horrendous job anyway.

Bobby V did a horrible job, but the Bard debacle was dictated by the FO. That one is at the feet of Ben Cherington.

[Bellhorn04]

Bobby V did a horrible job, but the Bard debacle was dictated by the FO. That one is at the feet of Ben Cherington.

 

Bard was a freak case. He said he wanted to be a starter so they let him give it a shot. No one could foresee that he was going to become a victim of an extremely rare malady like Steve Blass Disease.

[User Name]

Bard was a freak case. He said he wanted to be a starter so they let him give it a shot. No one could foresee that he was going to become a victim of an extremely rare malady like Steve Blass Disease.

 

a700 won't let facts (and Bard being the one to suggest, and insist on, being a starter) let in the way of a good argument against the FO. I've come to believe he doesn't actually hate the FO that much, and simply writes up the illogical comments for the trolling factor.

[mvp 78]

a700 won't let facts (and Bard being the one to suggest, and insist on, being a starter) let in the way of a good argument against the FO. I've come to believe he doesn't actually hate the FO that much, and simply writes up the illogical comments for the trolling factor.

 

Being cynical about a700's motives in posting?