Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[sk7326]

Shields is there for the taking. If the Red Sox offered a 4/80 contract with one or two vesting options based on innings, he would probably take it.

 

I am still in the "we need an ace" side of the argument.

 

Oh I am too - I just think there is time to figure that out. Baseball's economic health and extra wild card spot makes it harder to trade for the ace in the offseason: very few teams are truly economically under duress, and more teams than ever can credibly sell winning as an option, at least in April.

 

The trade market needs some time to open up - so the reality of the Cueto's or David Price's can set in/not set in. I am realistic - I wish Lester stayed. But with him gone and Scherzer going somewhere else, the question is "then what". They improved the back end of the rotation - and Porcello, considering both age and performance, could provide as much value as Shields. They seriously improved the durability of the rotation - there is a lot of history of just being able to deliver solid quantity here. Do I expect this team to be the wire-to-wire best team in baseball like in 2013? No. But it is much improved from 2014, and a pretty good bet to be good enough for the sack of trade goodies to be able to deliver something better.

[a700hitter]

Oh I am too - I just think there is time to figure that out. Baseball's economic health and extra wild card spot makes it harder to trade for the ace in the offseason: very few teams are truly economically under duress, and more teams than ever can credibly sell winning as an option, at least in April.

 

The trade market needs some time to open up - so the reality of the Cueto's or David Price's can set in/not set in. I am realistic - I wish Lester stayed. But with him gone and Scherzer going somewhere else, the question is "then what". They improved the back end of the rotation - and Porcello, considering both age and performance, could provide as much value as Shields. They seriously improved the durability of the rotation - there is a lot of history of just being able to deliver solid quantity here. Do I expect this team to be the wire-to-wire best team in baseball like in 2013? No. But it is much improved from 2014, and a pretty good bet to be good enough for the sack of trade goodies to be able to deliver something better.

It would be the first time that I can remember if we acquire an ace during the season.

[mvp 78]

Mike Boddicker was a decent 2. Can't think of a better arm picked up in season.

[Spudboy]

I'm going to harp on the starting pitching depth. We really don't discuss it much. As I see it, this is a glaring weakness especially since at least two of the current 5 are suspect in some way related to their recent health.

 

Last season at this time, the Sox had 6 men in the rotation before Dempster called it quits ( someone correct me if I have the seasons mixed up ). The Sox had 4-5 guys in AAA that were available to make a spot start or fill in if a starter went down because of injury.

 

This year the Sox have 5 starters of lesser quality and health overall. And who is in Pawtucket to back up this rotation? I count 2-3 guys at best.

 

To my mind, a team needs 7 ready to go starters in a season. I have far less confidence in the starting 5 and not much confidence that there is sufficient depth in Pawtucket to plug any holes.

[iortiz]

or if Masterson and Buch fall apart out of the gate and Miley and Kelly pitch to career norms, we could be out of the race by the trading deadline.

 

It is just not a sure thing that the current pitching will keep the team in the race even with an improved offense. Losing Lackey and Lester is quite a void to fill. The current group is no guarantee to keep us competitive.

 

Also building on pitching during the season by adding an ace isn't that common for the Red Sox. I can't remember when we added that kind of piece to our team mid-season.

 

 

This has been my concern all along. As you said, by the trade deadline it could be too late. Big IFS surround us mostly at pitching.

Edited January 29, 2015 by iortiz

[iortiz]

It would be the first time that I can remember if we acquire an ace during the season.

This drum has been beaten in recent years and that arm never arrived.

[Kimmi]

It would be the first time that I can remember if we acquire an ace during the season.

 

 

The Sox might not need an ace during the season. Maybe Porcello or Buccholz emerges as the ace. Maybe we need a mid rotation guy. Or maybe we just need some BP help.

 

I would like to see another starter added now, but it makes sense to wait and see what the needs of the team are.

 

IMO, we are good enough as is to be competitive, so unless a deal presents itself that the FO is comfortable with, they do not have to make a move. They have the luxury right now of making a deal, either a free agent signing or a trade, on their terms.

[Northern Star]

Maybe Porcello or Buccholz emerges as the ace.

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/Tom-Cruise-crazy-laugh.gif

[Kimmi]

LOL

 

Have some faith Northern Star.

 

The talent is there.

[iortiz]

The Sox might not need an ace during the season. Maybe Porcello or Buccholz emerges as the ace. Maybe we need a mid rotation guy. Or maybe we just need some BP help.

 

I would like to see another starter added now, but it makes sense to wait and see what the needs of the team are.

 

IMO, we are good enough as is to be competitive, so unless a deal presents itself that the FO is comfortable with, they do not have to make a move. They have the luxury right now of making a deal, either a free agent signing or a trade, on their terms.

 

It is fine to be optimistic and all but come on LOL.

 

Sorry but this is the worst rotation I ever seen entering into a season, but that's me.

[iortiz]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/Tom-Cruise-crazy-laugh.gif

 

Yeah it is kind of a joke hahaha but it is oks

Edited January 30, 2015 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

Mike Boddicker was a decent 2. Can't think of a better arm picked up in season.

 

That's the last and best one that I remember. I don't think it is realistic to think we will land a stud mid season.

[Palodios]

Buchholz doesn't need to emerge as an ace. He needs to emerge as a pitcher that is successful for 2-3 months until reinforcements come from the farm/trade market.

 

Buchholz has those stretches where he is among the best pitchers in the league. 2013 -- 1.71 ERA. 2012 -- 2.80 ERA June-September. 2011-- 2.70 ERA May-June. 2010-- 2.33 ERA.

 

We just have to do a lot of praying, but otherwise it isn't completely out of the question.

[a700hitter]

The Sox might not need an ace during the season. Maybe Porcello or Buccholz emerges as the ace. Maybe we need a mid rotation guy. Or maybe we just need some BP help.

 

I would like to see another starter added now, but it makes sense to wait and see what the needs of the team are.

 

IMO, we are good enough as is to be competitive, so unless a deal presents itself that the FO is comfortable with, they do not have to make a move. They have the luxury right now of making a deal, either a free agent signing or a trade, on their terms.

A lot would have to go right to be in this position. I would say that it is a long shot that Buch and Masterson stay healthy and perform as top of the rotation pitchers. Also, I can see Porcello as a solid #3 with the possibility of raising his game to a #2, but it is a very long shot that he performs like a #1.

[iortiz]

Buchholz doesn't need to emerge as an ace. He needs to emerge as a pitcher that is successful for 2-3 months until reinforcements come from the farm/trade market.

 

Buchholz has those stretches where he is among the best pitchers in the league. 2013 -- 1.71 ERA. 2012 -- 2.80 ERA June-September. 2011-- 2.70 ERA May-June. 2010-- 2.33 ERA.

 

We just have to do a lot of praying, but otherwise it isn't completely out of the question.

Not sure but should he gain some weight or something?... Probably his body shape is not helping him to stay healthy.

 

It always has been a mystery to me what is going on with this guy regarding his physical condition.

Edited January 30, 2015 by iortiz

[Ogden]

This Sox team could be compared to the old days when they mashed the ball, but had trouble keeping the other team in check. We could be looking at a lot of 6-5 games this year. I wish I had a better feeling about Masterson having already over come his physical issues from last year. And Miley - could he be another John Tudor or Bobby Ojeda?

[cp176]

This Sox team could be compared to the old days when they mashed the ball, but had trouble keeping the other team in check. We could be looking at a lot of 6-5 games this year. I wish I had a better feeling about Masterson having already over come his physical issues from last year. And Miley - could he be another John Tudor or Bobby Ojeda?

 

If you are sox fan, at this point you either support the front office and what they have done or you don't I guess. There are so many questions with respect to how they will play. I liked Ojeda and Tudor as well. They should be better offensively - we hope for the best. From a pitching perspective - who knows - roll the dice.

[a700hitter]

If you are sox fan, at this point you either support the front office and what they have done or you don't I guess. There are so many questions with respect to how they will play. I liked Ojeda and Tudor as well. They should be better offensively - we hope for the best. From a pitching perspective - who knows - roll the dice.

I agree, but a team with a payroll over the luxury cap should have a pitching rotation that is more than a crap shoot.

[iortiz]

I agree, but a team with a payroll over the luxury cap should have a pitching rotation that is more than a crap shoot.

 

This team seems very unbalanced.

[Palodios]

It does seem crazy that the offense is making 120 million this year, and the starting pitching is only making 35 million.

[Spudboy]

A lot would have to go right to be in this position. I would say that it is a long shot that Buch and Masterson stay healthy and perform as top of the rotation pitchers. Also, I can see Porcello as a solid #3 with the possibility of raising his game to a #2, but it is a very long shot that he performs like a #1.

 

It's all speculation, of course. I'm sick of waiting for Buch to realize his potential. He has yet to demonstrate the maturity and toughness to be a front end starter. I think that he is just a dolt. Still, as Kimmi and Pal have said, Buch does have the talent to put up dominant numbers. Of course his failure to do so over his career is maddening and this is why we are so reluctant to believe that he will do so. What a waste of talent.

 

I have always like Porcello. Who knows what will happen with him. He is still young enough to graduate to one of the better SP in the AL.

 

Hoping for either pitcher to emerge will likely result in disappointment in my opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

It does seem crazy that the offense is making 120 million this year, and the starting pitching is only making 35 million.

 

Porcello 12.5

Buchholz 12.0

Masterson 9.5

Miley-arb-projected 4.3

Kelly pre-arb 0.6

Total 39

 

Some of the pricing is simply a result of the pitchers years of service.

[Spudboy]

Porcello 12.5

Buchholz 12.0

Masterson 9.5

Miley-arb-projected 4.3

Kelly pre-arb 0.6

Total 39

 

Some of the pricing is simply a result of the pitchers years of service.

 

I wonder what Kelly will sign at?

 

By the way, Nava has signed.

[iortiz]

It does seem crazy that the offense is making 120 million this year, and the starting pitching is only making 35 million.

 

Crazy huh!

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder what Kelly will sign at?

 

By the way, Nava has signed.

 

Kelly is pre-arb so I think he gets the minimum.

 

Nava got 1.85 million.

[Bellhorn04]

Crazy huh!

 

If Porcello, Miley and Kelly were older you could tack on another 20 million or so to their cost. Feel better now?

[mvp 78]

You are paying big bucks for HanRam, Papi, Pedroia and Panda. Those 4 probably make more than almost ever starting staff in MLB.

[iortiz]

If Porcello, Miley and Kelly were older you could tack on another 20 million or so to their cost. Feel better now?

 

Honestly, I don't see them making something remotely close to 20 M/Y when they hit the FA (these days money value; Net Future Value)

 

I'm just asking for 2 solid/proven arms followed by 3/4 tier pitchers and a couple of prospects in your depth side. Is it too much to ask for a team which has one of the highest payrolls in baseball? Haha

Edited January 30, 2015 by iortiz

[sk7326]

I agree, but a team with a payroll over the luxury cap should have a pitching rotation that is more than a crap shoot.

 

oh it's more than a crap shoot - the middle is actually quite good. Compare the 2-4 starters with peers in the AL and it's not bad at all. Yeah it doesn't compare to Detroit, but neither does anybody else.

 

The first five in the rotation are all decent and young enough to project improvement to some degree or anotherr. Barnes, Johnson and Owens will all see some reps during the season. The rotation is probably one guy away, but there is time to find the guy.

[iortiz]

oh it's more than a crap shoot - the middle is actually quite good. Compare the 2-4 starters with peers in the AL and it's not bad at all. Yeah it doesn't compare to Detroit, but neither does anybody else.

 

The first five in the rotation are all decent and young enough to project improvement to some degree or anotherr. Barnes, Johnson and Owens will all see some reps during the season. The rotation is probably one guy away, but there is time to find the guy.

 

When we face true #1 and Solid #2 we are going to struggle to match those games. Yeah, the upside is there but the ?s and injury prone issues probably are bigger, in the way I see the thing.