2014 Offseason Thread

[GomesBeard]

I think that 1) Washington is going to trade one of their starters, if not now, then before the trade deadline (but probably sooner) and 2) the Sox will be their trading partner for a starter. Of course the Nats are going to say they have no plans to trade a starter, and of course Ben is gong to say that he's comfortable going into the season with the status quo. It is, after all, January 20th.

[cp176]

I thought that he was very anti-mongoloid.

 

You're right! I am seeing a Civil Liberties jump on that one.

[cp176]

Do the Ulan Bator Yaks have a front line starter? I know they are the class of the Siberian Winter League.

 

I hear that they have an ace coming in from Russia - Kamchatka Peninsula. The rage of the plains. they come from Cuba, they can come from anywhere.

[Palodios]

I can't stop seeing Buchholz as the big red flag for the team. He's about as unreliable as they come. I'm fine with the rest of the rotation being #2/3/4 quality pitchers, but Buchholz has the potential to be the worst starter in the MLB. He also has the potential to be among the best, but I don't see that happening.

[seabeachfred]

I think the only reason some people aren't freaking out is that it looks like this rotation could compete in a weakened AL East. If they are close at the trade deadline, they could pick up another arm then.

 

I think most of us would rather they get someone now, but it's not the end of the world if they don't.

 

You're right on that mvp. I think we could compete with that rotation for a possible AL East Title but I'm afraid it would shaky sailing from that point on unless we could get that No. 1. Good health and luck and a comeback by Buchholz (with fingers tightly crossed) and a banner year from Porcello and Kelly and we could do that. As you said, though, most of us would like to get that pitcher now.

[seabeachfred]

The success of the rotation will depend on Buch and Masterson staying healthy, taking all of their starts and hopefully performing as they did when they had good seasons. That is a crap shoot. If one of them falters, the team will be in trouble. If both repeat last year's performance, the season will be a bust. If they stay healthy and perform well, the team will be competitive.

 

I think a few prayers and novenas might help too Ted. We certainly need some good vibes from Dame Fortune. That No. 1 pitching phantom would look real good right now.

[seabeachfred]

The Scherzer signing does give Boston another option for a starter that they didn't have before. They never were in on Scherzer in the first place. If they can pry either Zimmermann or Strasburg out of Washington then their rotation will be nothing to sneeze at. If they don't we can always see how the division shakes out. The ALE is so mediocre that the Sox are clearly contenders in a very weak field and could wait until the ASB before retooling for a playoff run.

 

What I fail to understand is why Washington signed Scherzer if they are only going to turn around and trade either Zimmermann or Strasburg. Of the three (Scherzer, Zim or Strasburg) I'd rather have Zimmermann in 2015 on my staff.

 

I just wonder if they wanted to get finished with Boras as soon as they could and not have to worry about him two years from now when Strasburg FA comes up. Besides, with that rotation now they have a good chance of making it to the WS and I hope they do just that. I don't want to see the Giants back in it this season and I sure as hell don't want to see you know who in there either.

[seabeachfred]

It will just mean the Sox have spots to fill and money to burn. You never know who is going to be available year to year. We know the SP market looks deep next off season. Will all those guys make it to FA? No. But I bet a lot see the huge $ being thrown around and will be tempted to gamble. But regardless a decent amount of those guys will hit FA. You also don't know who will be available via trade. Some team will decide to rebuild, or someone will start getting too pricey via arbitration for some teams liking. Good SP will be available. Now whether or not that falls into the Sox price range $ or prospect wise, we will have to wait and see.

 

That's the fear.....that Henry will not put out the money for pitching. The price will be determined by the market, something that Henry and Lucchino still don't seem to understand.

[seabeachfred]

What kool aid? nonsense? haha come on man, I know you like Cherrys and all but your boy has been saying over and over again in all media that he feels comfortable and confident with the current rotation going forward, because he thinks it is oks and solid. Sorry but I do not buy that kool aid at all, It is pathetic; it is a bunch of #4s with injury prone issues.

 

Is it a PR strategy? IDK. Maybe they do not want the fans get panic or maybe they are just afraid about tickets or a bit concern about TV rating going forward. IDK. Again....I do not buy that kool aid at all.

 

If Cherington really believes that the rotation is fine and solid going forward he is drinking his own Kool-Aid my friend, but there may be another angle. What if he has been given the word by Prune Face that they're through spending for the off season and he has to make due with what he's got. What could be do? Rail and maybe lose his job. Not saying that's what going down but Henry's reluctance to spend big on a top quality pitcher makes me a little suspicious of what he has up his sleeve....if anything. All we can do Iortiz is wait this thing out and see if something is coming down the road besides a twenty ton truck coming right on us.

[Northern Star]

I can't stop seeing Buchholz as the big red flag for the team. He's about as unreliable as they come. I'm fine with the rest of the rotation being #2/3/4 quality pitchers, but Buchholz has the potential to be the worst starter in the MLB. He also has the potential to be among the best, but I don't see that happening.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying worst starter in the majors but yeah, no confidence he'll be any good, not consistently, anyway.

[seabeachfred]

Good positive outlook for the short term anyway. i like it. Living day to day - might not even be here tomorrow. Of that I am positive.

 

Sounds to me like MJ is likening that as a hopeful reprieve from the governor. That reprieve may not come again and the team will still face the firing squad. Fact is, we should not be through dealing or paying for pitching. We all know we need that No. 1 guy, and frankly we could use two good pitchers, not one. Yes, we could win the AL East with what he have but we could finish third or fourth as well, and I'm not enamored with guys like Barnes and others from the minors stepping in there if an emergency develops. We need another solid pitcher at least and that should be agreed to by just about everyone.

[Northern Star]

I think that 1) Washington is going to trade one of their starters, if not now, then before the trade deadline (but probably sooner) and 2) the Sox will be their trading partner for a starter. Of course the Nats are going to say they have no plans to trade a starter, and of course Ben is gong to say that he's comfortable going into the season with the status quo. It is, after all, January 20th.

 

Does this involving giving up Betts for a Zimmermann rental?

[Northern Star]

really? dammit! haha. Porcello better perform as some are projecting vomit.

 

...

[pruneface]

No one knows either way whether it's better to wait and pay less for a rental, pay more for a 1 year rental now, or sign Shields for something outrageous. All these scenarios include risk and reward and I can see a case being made for any option. I'm certain all these guys are going to test the FA waters since pitchers are getting a king's ransom. There is the possibility that with more premium FA's available next offseason, the price could be lowered, but I think the best guys are still going to command something between what Shields is going to get and what Lester got, if not more.

[cp176]

No one knows either way whether it's better to wait and pay less for a rental, pay more for a 1 year rental now, or sign Shields for something outrageous. All these scenarios include risk and reward and I can see a case being made for any option. I'm certain all these guys are going to test the FA waters since pitchers are getting a king's ransom. There is the possibility that with more premium FA's available next offseason, the price could be lowered, but I think the best guys are still going to command something between what Shields is going to get and what Lester got, if not more.

 

You pay the most for the best. Not many bargains I'm afraid. We all realize the need for that top quality arm. If there were no arms out there it would not seem as pertinent to us but they are there. It has become a contentious point because the pitching is there. Is there a philosophy - is there a plan? We all know the issues. Lack of a"top" quality arm, too many players in an already crowded outfield. A few defensive questions. Near as I can figure everybody here wants them to succeed. I never went into a classroom or onto a playing field without a plan. I don't blame them for not letting us in on their secrets but I am curious as to what they may be. It is still difficult for me to believe that they sign Sandoval and Ramirez without going after that big gun they need. They have made some nice additions - I am just waiting for the next one. have to a believer!

[vjcsmoke]

We need a top of the rotation leader in the pitching staff. An Ace. But can we afford to land one before the season starts?

[User Name]

No one knows either way whether it's better to wait and pay less for a rental, pay more for a 1 year rental now, or sign Shields for something outrageous. All these scenarios include risk and reward and I can see a case being made for any option. I'm certain all these guys are going to test the FA waters since pitchers are getting a king's ransom. There is the possibility that with more premium FA's available next offseason, the price could be lowered, but I think the best guys are still going to command something between what Shields is going to get and what Lester got, if not more.

 

Good points. Please post more!

[pruneface]

Good points. Please post more!

The problem is we don't have enough information to make a definitive decision. Career numbers, especially for young pitchers, can change if there's a break out year. The team could do very well as is, or stay in contention long enough to make a deadline deal, or they could fall flat, or an acquisition now could fail and represent a gross overpay, or do very well. It comes down to gambling, making a bet, and hoping for the best. Hindsight is 20/20. Even simultaneously playing these numerous scenarios in parallel universes wouldn't be definitive proof because a different outcome would probably happen if they were played through again. That may be a conversation killer, but it's reality. Ultimately, people will make a moral argument on what they think should happen and try to convince others of their certainty. The trouble is . . . it's a crapshoot. There is no certainty.

Edited January 21, 2015 by pruneface
I wanted to.

[cp176]

'A moral argument on what they think is right" = talk anything forum board. They won't win a world series every year even if they should have the best and brightest working for them. I like the fact that many people who post here are strong in their convictions. No one is right all the time and no ones opinion is any less or more important than someone elses.

[a700hitter]

Yep, we are just a bunch of fans with opinions. The quest to prove whether those opinions are wrong or right is a pointless and ultimately fruitless endeavor. I only know of one poster that puts his opinions and research truly on the line -- the betting line. When you bet there are definitive results. Everything else is really BS. My buddy iortiz has put a lot of thought into his wagering systems, and it is my understanding that he is fairly successful at it.

[Bellhorn04]

At Sawxheads I had an intimate look at the one thing that can turn a forum into hell. It's when the posters align into two clearly defined parties - the positives and the negatives, or, as seen by the other side, the Front Office Ballwashers and the Fellowship of the Miserable - and it becomes an all-out war of partisan politics and personal attacks.

[cp176]

Yep, we are just a bunch of fans with opinions. The quest to prove whether those opinions are wrong or right is a pointless and ultimately fruitless endeavor. I only know of one poster that puts his opinions and research truly on the line -- the betting line. When you bet there are definitive results. Everything else is really BS. My buddy iortiz has put a lot of thought into his wagering systems, and it is my understanding that he is fairly successful at it.

 

If he is that good, I think I need to talk to him. Could always stand a few sure things.

[Palodios]

At Sawxheads I had an intimate look at the one thing that can turn a forum into hell. It's when the posters align into two clearly defined parties - the positives and the negatives, or, as seen by the other side, the Front Office Ballwashers and the Fellowship of the Miserable - and it becomes an all-out war of partisan politics and personal attacks.

 

How is that different than here ? Obviously less extreme, but the sides are general well defined. Fellowship of the Miserable has a good ring to it.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox are reportedly preparing to make a strong offer for Zimmermann.

 

Red Sox sign Dana Eveland to minor league deal.

 

Amaro doesn't expect to trade Hamels.

[Bellhorn04]

How is that different than here ? Obviously less extreme, but the sides are general well defined. Fellowship of the Miserable has a good ring to it.

 

I agree, this place threatens at times to become exactly like that. It's up to everybody to make sure it doesn't.

[Elktonnick]

Assigning labels to posters is not helpful and is needlessly divisive. If a poster truly gets under one's skin then simply use the ignore function.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox are reportedly preparing to make a strong offer for Zimmermann.

 

Red Sox sign Dana Eveland to minor league deal.

 

Amaro doesn't expect to trade Hamels.

Amaro is a horrible GM.

[Elktonnick]

I agree Amaro is destroying the Phillies.

[cp176]

I agree, this place threatens at times to become exactly like that. It's up to everybody to make sure it doesn't.

 

In all honesty guys, I think that this is a very good site. Most, as in a huge majority of posters, can actually have legit debates

even in disagreement. Fred, whom I happen to think would be a good friend to have, always does his thing. Provides food for thought and good humor - something we all need to have. He has two attackers for sure. Probably they feel compelled to go after him on every occasion for some reason. I think that he is tough enough to deal with it. Ball washer no - ball deflater maybe. Fellowship of the miserable - I like that. Most of us live in New England and that can be miserable. When more is actually going on, there will be more substantive material to talk about. Once again, I could care less if people express their views toward the team and its leadership. When you make that kind of money for doing that kind of work, you probably expect ample amounts of good and bad. A forum board to talk Red Sox baseball - could it get any better.

[a700hitter]

In all honesty guys, I think that this is a very good site. Most, as in a huge majority of posters, can actually have legit debates

even in disagreement. Fred, whom I happen to think would be a good friend to have, always does his thing. Provides food for thought and good humor - something we all need to have. He has two attackers for sure. Probably they feel compelled to go after him on every occasion for some reason. I think that he is tough enough to deal with it. Ball washer no - ball deflater maybe. Fellowship of the miserable - I like that. Most of us live in New England and that can be miserable. When more is actually going on, there will be more substantive material to talk about. Once again, I could care less if people express their views toward the team and its leadership. When you make that kind of money for doing that kind of work, you probably expect ample amounts of good and bad. A forum board to talk Red Sox baseball - could it get any better.

I think you have summed up the place pretty well-- not bad for someone still carrying a "Rookie" designation on this site, although you are surely no rookie when it comes to your knowledge of the Red Sox and baseball.

 

Fred is a really good guy. He is an emotional fan, and he comes here to emote. He will go after players and the FO with strong and colorful opinions. I don't understand the mindset of the few who see red at the sight of his name and avatar. I have talked baseball several times with him on the phone. The conversations have always been pleasant even though we don't always agree on the issues. One thing is for sure-- the guy knows a lot about the game. Those who denigrate his opinion are underestimating the source. He's not right about everything, but he is right more than he is wrong. I hope that he is wrong about Bogaerts being a choker, although XB has done nothing to disprove the notion.

 

On the other side of the TalkSox ledger is Pete (SpudBoy). He's the polar opposite of Fred tempermentally, but he is also a great guy and his baseball knowledge shouldn't be underestimated. He isn't overbearing in his opinions, but he has a great base of Red Sox knowldge.

 

We have lots of smart interesting posters. Example has been back more often recently. To say that we used to push each others buttons would be an understatement, but he is one of the more knowledgeable posters who packs a lot of information into every one of his posts. Gladly, we have come to the point where we appreciate each other's point of view and don't see red when we see each others names.

 

Pal is a great and devoted fan. He has a ton of knowledge about baseball and his enthusiasm and positive attitude grows as each season approaches. I still push his buttons, but that is his issue. Guys like Pal take it the hardest when the team goes down the toilet, because they have convinced themselves of the team's competiveness and the good work of the FO. When it goes bad, it is hard for him to come to grips with the reasons as he doesn't like to assign blame. Pal may be a cockeyed optimist, but he isn't a FO ballwasher and sticks around to commiserate with the rest of us when things turn bad.

 

All in all, this is a great place to discuss the Red Sox. It has a good balance. Any omissions were unintentional when mentioning great posters. Bells, iortiz, Elk and many others add to my enjoyment at TS. And I miss Pumpsie, who was unjustly banned IMO.

Edited January 21, 2015 by a700hitter