Is Shin Soo Choo worth 18m per year for the Red Sox?

[dupree]

No, on Choo. No, on Tanaka. Both will be too overpriced. I agree with User that Tanaka has proved nothing here. When a guy has never thrown a pitch to the MLB caliber of hitters in line-ups top to bottom with players that drive the ball instead of a lot of slap type hitting like they do alot of in Asia Ball.

 

I seen where Farrell said that he and the FO believe that JBJ is the caliber of player that doesnt need a platoon partner in CF. That the team already has a platoon in LF and that the OF doesnt need to be platoon players. To me that says a lot about JBJ and i hope like hell that it dont bite us in the ass not going after a big bat. Ive said it once and i'll say it again, what if Ortiz goes down at some point with injury?, ok lets say that does happen then there goes one of our 4 power bats. Not to say that i dont think we cant withstand a short DL stint for Ortiz but i think we need to look at a power bat to place into LF that can hit infront of Ortiz in the order. Im just suprised to say the least that Farrell believes that much in JBJ. I hope they are just slow playing the market and act like they are not interested in a big bat and then behind closed doors they come out and announce a trade for a bat that shocks all the sports writers and fans alike.

[SoxSport]

Granderson says the Red Sox almost signed him after Ells signed with the Yankees, but decided to go with Bradley in CF. That may tell you a lot about their plans. The Mets got a good deal at 4/60 for him. Yankees made a big mistake letting him go for that money and signing Ells. Tailor made for Yankee Stadium, and a good guy. If Ells doesn't hit 25HRs next year, the Yankee fans will be hollering about signing Gardner II for $20+M.

 

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/12/10/curtis-granderson-explains-red-sox-interest-the-newest-met/

[marklmw]

No, on Choo. No, on Tanaka. Both will be too overpriced. I agree with User that Tanaka has proved nothing here. When a guy has never thrown a pitch to the MLB caliber of hitters in line-ups top to bottom with players that drive the ball instead of a lot of slap type hitting like they do alot of in Asia Ball.

Tanaka makes professional slap hitters from Japan miss I do not think he will have any trouble with MLB power hitters.

[mvp 78]

The best way to scout someone is clearly by watching videos on the internet.

[marklmw]

The best way to scout someone is clearly by watching videos on the internet.

 

From everything I have read Boston along with many other MLB teams actually sent scouts to Japan to watch him pitch. Imagine that.

[Jaddy]

Don't expect any more additions to this club but a couple of backups an OF and IF that's it.

[SoxSport]

Beneath all the talk about the Yankees from the meetings on MLB TV, there is an undercurrent of wonder about all the holes they haven't yet filled, despite spending $300 million or whatever. Tom Verducci, for example, of SI. They have holes in pitching, starter and BP, plus a huge hole at 2B, 39yo Jeter and Texeira trying to comeback and another possible hole at 3B (almost a no-win situation there with ARod). Plus they don't have many trade chips. They did fill a hole at catching, and have added a couple of outfielders they might have lived without. The loss of Granderson, for example, has created a power hole in the outfield which 37yo Beltran is expected to fill? Ells is an upgrade over Gardner in CF, but at what cost for a similar type player?

 

The Red Sox, in contrast, look in a lot better shape. Lots of depth. Targeted improvements in pitching and catching made by Cherington so far. A ready replacement for Ells in CF ( they almost went with Granderson, but decided to stick with JBJ), and the kid X, who could be the all-star SS next year the way he played in the playoffs.

 

At the moment it's hard to see the Yankees as significantly better in the competitive East unless they spend another $200 million. And at the moment, there isn't much to spend it on except more outfielders.

 

Billy Beane is now on with Millar and Rose--MLB TV. I swear Beane has a halo around his head. He must have divine guidance.

Edited December 10, 2013 by SoxSport

[marklmw]

Beneath all the talk about the Yankees from the meetings on MLB TV, there is an undercurrent of wonder about all the holes they haven't yet filled, despite spending $300 million or whatever. Tom Verducci, for example, of SI. They have holes in pitching, starter and BP, plus a huge hole at 2B, 39yo Jeter and Texeira trying to comeback and another possible hole at 3B (almost a no-win situation there with ARod). Plus they don't have many trade chips. They did fill a hole at catching, and have added a couple of outfielders they might have lived without. The loss of Granderson, for example, has created a power hole in the outfield which 37yo Beltran is expected to fill? Ells is an upgrade over Gardner in CF, but at what cost for a similar type player?

 

 

The Red Sox, in contrast, look in a lot better shape. Lots of depth. Targeted improvements in pitching and catching made by Cherington so far. A ready replacement for Ells in CF ( they almost went with Granderson, but decided to stick with JBJ), and the kid X, who could be the all-star SS next year the way he played in the playoffs.

 

At the moment it's hard to see the Yankees as significantly better in the competitive East unless they spend another $200 million. And at the moment, there isn't much to spend it on except more outfielders.

 

Billy Beane is now on with Millar and Rose--MLB TV. I swear Beane has a halo around his head. He must have divine guidance.

 

A very nice read Soxsport.

[mvp 78]

From everything I have read Boston along with many other MLB teams actually sent scouts to Japan to watch him pitch. Imagine that.

 

And yet there have been no reports that signing him is a priority for the Sox. Maybe they don't think he has the stuff you think he does?

 

Personally, I think they're bidding only to increase the price for the Yanks.

[marklmw]

And yet there have been no reports that signing him is a priority for the Sox. Maybe they don't think he has the stuff you think he does?

 

Personally, I think they're bidding only to increase the price for the Yanks.

 

And what do you want to happen ... Ben to hold a press conference telling the world that they want Tanaka? imo Tanaka helps our team in 2014 thru 2020. Pitching wins championships ... I will joyfully take our 2013 World Series Championship but if it were not for Jon Lester and a crazily clutch port season from David Big Papi Ortiz it would never have happened. The AL Championship will go through Detroit in 2014 and Detroit has some quality pitching ... I was amazed that traded Fister ... made no sense what-so-ever.

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe: Cherington just met with #RedSox writers. He indicated more talk about smaller deals than high-profile ones

[Northern Star]

I love guys who have significantly better OBP than BA, but 18M is a lot of money.

 

But getting smaller and smaller by today's crazy standards.

[marklmw]

@PeteAbe: Cherington just met with #RedSox writers. He indicated more talk about smaller deals than high-profile ones

 

and your point is?

[seabeachfred]

Let's look at the numbers:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/choosh01.shtml

 

Lifetime averages: .288 BA .389 OBP .465 SLG .854 OPS

 

Last season Choo walked 112 times and has logged 20/20 seasons in 3 of the last 5 years.

Choo fits the Red Sox philosophy of grinding out at-bats and wearing down the starting pitcher, extending the inning.

Choo's average WAR over the past 5 seasons is 4.14.

 

If the Red Sox sign Choo, they can keep Victorino at his accustomed 2 spot, and Pedroia in the 3 spot.

 

Lineup:

1 Choo

2 Victorino

3 Pedroia

4 Ortiz

5 Napoli

6 Bogaerts

7 Middlebrooks

8 Nava

9 Pyrzinski

 

I think Boras is posturing. Choo is still not as good as Ellsbury, and he's also older.

I'm not giving anybody 20m these days unless they are in their prime 25 year old, franchise player.

 

That being said, IF Choo would take a 6 year/108 million dollar deal, do you sign him on the dotted line?

 

VJC---what are you smoking? Too expensive and he can't play CF which is where Vic would have to play--a Gold Glove right fielder. Gomes and Nava have earned the right to platoon in left. They both did a whale of a job for us this season and I don't want to move Shane. To quote mvp---NO WAY!!!!!!

[seabeachfred]

This is your typical response when confronted about one of your player crushes. It's not "my opinion only". There is a basis for emitting this idea. Besides the fact that you have to pay up the posting fee, the Yankees will drive up the price to the 100m + range. Who is the safest bet to live up to a 100m contract? A proven commodity like Choo with several 20/20 seasons under his belt and elite OBP skills, or a guy who hasn't thrown a single MLB pitch? Not only that, but history shows there is an adjustment period coming over from Japan, so you would essentially be punting year one in terms of overall production. I'm not advocating signing Choo. I am saying that when you say the "only" two players that the Sox should look at are Tanaka and Stanton, you are clearly wrong, because Tanaka is a bigger question mark than Choo. Sorry if that sounds "pompous" by the way.

 

Will you or someone else around here point out to me just what the hell is wrong with our team right now? I'm hearing all these suggestions about trades for this guy and that guy and what the hell we must do. A good utility infielder, a good reserve outfielder with a little sock who hit RH and can play CF to spell Braldey now and then. What the hell else do we need? If it isn't broke, don't fix it......It isn't broke.

[User Name]

The Sox don't need Choo, just like they don't need Tanaka or Stanton.

 

For the record.

[seabeachfred]

@PeteAbe: Cherington just met with #RedSox writers. He indicated more talk about smaller deals than high-profile ones

 

Can we now take Ben at his word? Because that is exactly what he should do IMHO.

[marklmw]

Can we now take Ben at his word? Because that is exactly what he should do IMHO.

^ I hope not!

[Northern Star]

marklmw has a couple of good points. But that's only on his avatar.

[VA Sox Fan]

marklmw has a couple of good points. But that's only on his avatar.

 

HA ha HA ha HA ha!!!!

[vjcsmoke]

Is he worth $16M more than Nava (who has similar OBP skills and glove)? The only difference there is SB. Why pay $16M for 20 SB?

 

They aren't even close offensively.

Nava has a career .782 OPS. Choo has a career .854 OPS.

Nava's average WAR is .8. Choo's average WAR over the past 5 seasons is 4.14.

 

There's a lot more to the story than some stolen bases. Choo would be an elite leadoff hitter and Nava is... well Nava. A good 4th or utility OF, but if he's a starting OF for you, then your team is in trouble.

 

Of course how the Red Sox should allocate their money is entirely up for discussion. Consider the fact that Napoli makes 16m per year. If Choo only costs 2m more and would fill a starting position role, and essentially helps replace about 70% of Ellsbury's lost WAR, wouldn't that be worth the money?

[SoxSport]

Heyman tweets Red Sox have decided Kemp not a good fit right now.

 

They passed on Grandy, passed now on Kemp. Bradley looks like their CFer.

 

They still need a backup guy who can play RF and maybe CF. Vic misses games.

 

I think, even without Ells, this could be a stronger team than last year--better pitching, especially BP.

And better catching. Plus X and JBJ.

Edited December 11, 2013 by SoxSport

[vjcsmoke]

Heyman tweets Red Sox have decided Kemp not a good fit right now.

 

They passed on Grandy, passed now on Kemp. Bradley looks like their CFer.

 

They still need a backup guy who can play RF and maybe CF. Vic misses games.

 

Well they don't necessarily need to make a big splash. But they could use a right handed bat to platoon with JBJ. I like his upside but I'm not ready to give him the keys to CF next season without a fallback plan of some sort. Remember when the Sox had Crisp and Ellsbury? That was the ideal situation. Once Ellsbury proved himself, they moved Crisp.

 

Is Stanton on the tradeblock or what?

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2013/11/marlins_president_opens_door_for_a_stanton_trade_j.html

[SoxSport]

Nava broke out last year, so his stats in previous years are deceiving. He doesn't have quite the power of Choo, and doesn't steal bases, but he's a very good hitter and on base guy much cheaper than Choo will be. i.e., better value if you are paying his salary.

 

On Stanton, there is no compelling need right now. I don't know if they want to trade Bradley or their other top prospects for a pretty much one dimensional player who did not have a great year last year. I think they want to see what Bradley can do--he looked good in Sept, even against LHP. He could well be a 5 tool player.

I expect he and X will be better than last year.

Edited December 11, 2013 by SoxSport

[seabeachfred]

Nava broke out last year, so his stats in previous years are deceiving. He doesn't have quite the power of Choo, and doesn't steal bases, but he's a very good hitter and on base guy much cheaper than Choo will be. i.e., better value if you are paying his salary.

 

On Stanton, there is no compelling need right now. I don't know if they want to trade Bradley or their other top prospects for a pretty much one dimensional player who did not have a great year last year. I think they want to see what Bradley can do--he looked good in Sept, even against LHP. He could well be a 5 tool player.

I expect he and X will be better than last year.

 

Nava hit 303 this past season and together with Gomes hit close to 30 homers and around 90 RBI's. I think that is adequate enough. Both hit well in the clutch and the team wasn't in trouble with them in LF. In addition, it is high time we give Jackie Bradley jr a full chance to show what he can do in CF.

[Jaddy]

I can't tell if seabeachfred is in favor of starting the rookies & Middlebrooks.... I'm sure he'll be pleased to know Jon Heyman reports the sox are out on Kemp. I take that with a grain of salt, personally, I think Ben Cherington seems more the silent killer type.

[a700hitter]

I can't tell if seabeachfred is in favor of starting the rookies & Middlebrooks.... I'm sure he'll be pleased to know Jon Heyman reports the sox are out on Kemp. I take that with a grain of salt, personally, I think Ben Cherington seems more the silent killer type.

Silent killer type? Does that mean that you expect him to make a big trade?

[RedSoxNC84]

Silent killer type? Does that mean that you expect him to make a big trade?

 

Wouldn't be the first time he's supposedly pulled off a big trade. I think he's referring more to the smaller moves that make sense for the club, and the overpays in AAV for shorter years to guys who fit well with the club and what they're doing. The problem with Ben's approach is now people have caught on to it after winning the WS.

 

Also this talk of Choo and Tanaka is kinda silly. The Sox would benefit much much more if Tanaka were NOT to be posted this offseason. If he gets posted next offseason and they're interested, they'll have much more payroll space to gamble with.

 

Choo makes a good deal of sense for the Red Sox, but not at 18M a year.

 

They just need a decent RHH outfielder and a utility infielder. That's all.

[Jaddy]

I don't expect it. I think he's honest when saying he's comfortable with the roster as is (I think most sox fans agree, we have a good young roster that deserves its shot). But I also don't think Heyman or anyone else is going to get the jump on him. Basically, I don't trust when they say the Sox are looking at Kemp and I'm equally skeptical when they say we're out. Mr. Cherrington will decide that.

 

And to RedSoxNC84's point, I think he's definitely shown he would rather a well rounded 25 man roster than while making quiet moves than big splashy spending or trades. But that's not what I was referring to. I'm talking about his tight lipped demeanor which suits him and suits Boston sports. Similar to Belichick, Ainge, and now Stevens as well as Farrell.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jaddy

[seabeachfred]

I can't tell if seabeachfred is in favor of starting the rookies & Middlebrooks.... I'm sure he'll be pleased to know Jon Heyman reports the sox are out on Kemp. I take that with a grain of salt, personally, I think Ben Cherington seems more the silent killer type.

 

If you are confused where I stand I apologize for not being clearer. I am totally in favor of going with the team we have right now if we can get a RH hitting OF to spell Bradley when he face a real tough left hander, but I am totally in favor of having Bradley in CF, Bogaerts at SS and Middlebrooks at 3B. I also do not want to resign Drew. He chose to leave and found the pickings very slim. That's his problem and our problem can be solved if we give our young players a solid chance to show what they can do. Remember, we are not just building for 2014 but for the rest of the decade----that's seven seasons. I want contend and maybe go to two or three more WS in that time. Let's give our young guys a chance to show what they can do and be patient with them. If we are I think the results will be very good.