Will Middlebrooks

[Orange Juiced]

Small sample size and all, but here is Middlebrooks' line since returning to the Red Sox on August 10:

 

8 g, 31 pa, 26 ab, 4 r, 12 h, 3 2b, 1 hr, 4 rbi, 4 bb, 6 k, .462/.548/.692/1.241

 

Clearly that's not sustainable. But his approach looks better and he's hitting some rockets. He has a hit in every game since being recalled.

 

Boy it would be huge if he could be a threat offensively the rest of the way, unlike what the Sox have had basically all year long at the position.

[Soxfan1]

Definitely more patient at the plate too, his walk rate is up.

[mvp 78]

Still no power to RF though.

 

[Thunder]

Still no power to RF though.

 

 

He has power to right center.

[MJantomaso]

He has power to right center.

 

He was using sarcasm.

[a700hitter]

He was using sarcasm.

As pointless as Dumpster hitting ARod. LOL!!

[Thunder]

He was using sarcasm.

 

You must think I'm stupid.

[Orange Juiced]

Line since his recall:

 

11 g, 34 ab, 2 hr, 7 rbi, .441/.535/.706/1.241

 

Making up for Napoli's suckage, I guess.

[Thunder]

Can we stop with the unnecessary threads? This should be in here: http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16573-Will-is-back

[Orange Juiced]

The mods can merge it if they want.

[MJantomaso]

You must think I'm stupid.

 

yes, i do.

[mvp 78]

Can we stop with the unnecessary threads? This should be in here: http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16573-Will-is-back

 

At least that one isn't on the front page...

[Behindenemylines]

Guys the Sox won big yesterday! Middlebrooks was a big part of that. We should be happy!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Will Middlebrooks BB% before being sent down to AAA: 4.2%

 

Will Middlebrooks BB% after returning from AAA: 7.6%

 

League Average BB% for a 3B this year: 7.6%

 

If Middlebrooks can post a league average BB%, he can be a well above average 3B. This is one of the more encouraging signs I've seen from him.

[Dojji]

Can we stop with the unnecessary threads? This should be in here: http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/16573-Will-is-back

 

No it shouldn't. One, megathreading sucks, two, that thing is on freaking page 3, and necroing a thread just to continue it as a megathread is 5 different flavors of suck.

[jung]

He can do it. If Chris Davis could do it and James Looney could do it, Will can. The question is....will he.

 

Seems to me one problem he has had is that the Sox have tried to push him in the wrong direction. That was a waste of time. From appearances it would seem that the Sox and Will have reached some sort of an uneasy peace on the subject. Maybe that means that what progress Will makes from here he will have to make on his own. They maybe won't push him in the wrong direction any longer but that might be all the help he gets.

 

Pitchers have not been pitching him the same way since he came back. That is not unusual. Going down is like pressing the reset button. They pitched him like they had to figure him out all over again for awhile and that has actually helped his numbers some. Lately they have been drifting back to his sore spot. Why????? Because it is still his sore spot. That has produced what is being referred to as his "mini-slump".

 

He still does not have a process at the plate...Thats plain as day. But he is very very young even considering this is baseball where maturity only occasionally rears its head.He is a babe in swaddling blanket. I think he is stronger than people give him credit for....just does not give himself enough opportunity to show it......yet!

 

All we can do and all the Sox can do is watch and wait. Giving up on him now could easily turn out to be their biggest blunder since Jeff Bagwell. That said I am not expecting a great post season out of Will....not this year.

[mvp 78]

I don't know what this means:

 

"Seems to me one problem he has had is that the Sox have tried to push him in the wrong direction. That was a waste of time. From appearances it would seem that the Sox and Will have reached some sort of an uneasy peace on the subject. Maybe that means that what progress Will makes from here he will have to make on his own. They maybe won't push him in the wrong direction any longer but that might be all the help he gets."

[Dojji]

In other words, he thinks we're doing to WMB what the Twins did to Ortiz. Don't let him play to his own style because we have prejudices against free-swinging offense or something. Jung thinks that letting WMB swing away with confidence is going to be a better answer than forcing him tl second-guess himself trying to develop discipline he doesn't have, never really had, and possibly never will.

[sk7326]

Jung is right to a degree, but the Red Sox drafted and developed him - so it is kind of unlikely that they do not recognize his hitting personality. The team has had aggressive approach guys before too - most of them playing shortstop. Middlebrooks can be effective - even a good player - without being a great on-base sort. What did happen in his minor league tour was that the stance seemed to get quieted down some - so fewer parts of his swing can break down. Really Middlebrooks is like Josh Reddick - the on-base is not going to ever be high, but it can be good enough to let his power do work.

[SoxSport]

Middlebrooks is a perplexing hitter. That HR to RF was a nice piece of hitting. Going with a pretty tough pitch. Yet he seems to have trouble with consistency. Maybe it's just sophomore jinx that affects a lot of young players. You have to constantly make adjustments to keep up with the pitchers. He is showing signs he can be a pretty good hitter.

[jung]

His HR to right was another up and out over the plate pitch which he can hit and hit for power. It is a reaction swing for hime which is often a little late but it is still a pitch he can handle and has handled for as long as we have seen him hit.

 

The GSHR was an inside pitch that he was fooled on. He started his hips way too early, ended up completely off balance with one foot off the ground and still hit it out just by dropping the head on the ball. I really don't consider either out of character for him. Both were in different ways testaments to his natural power.

[seabeachfred]

Middlebrooks is a perplexing hitter. That HR to RF was a nice piece of hitting. Going with a pretty tough pitch. Yet he seems to have trouble with consistency. Maybe it's just sophomore jinx that affects a lot of young players. You have to constantly make adjustments to keep up with the pitchers. He is showing signs he can be a pretty good hitter.

 

I really wish the Red Sox would cut playing with Middlebrook's mind. He is going to strike out a lot but with experience he will better learn the strike zone IMO and the strikeouts will decrease over the years. He also is capable of hitting 30 or more homers a year and driving in close to 100 runs. With he and Bogey on the left side of our infield for the next ten years we will have some good right hand hitting run producers there. Leave Will to work with his coaches and stop expecting him to hit 350 and strike out less than 50 times a year. Ain't gonna happen. Deal with him as he is; it is a pretty good package from where I sit.

[sk7326]

I really wish the Red Sox would cut playing with Middlebrook's mind. He is going to strike out a lot but with experience he will better learn the strike zone IMO and the strikeouts will decrease over the years. He also is capable of hitting 30 or more homers a year and driving in close to 100 runs. With he and Bogey on the left side of our infield for the next ten years we will have some good right hand hitting run producers there. Leave Will to work with his coaches and stop expecting him to hit 350 and strike out less than 50 times a year. Ain't gonna happen. Deal with him as he is; it is a pretty good package from where I sit.

 

I think they have zero interest in how many times he strikeouts. Clearly that is an area where the team's development is relatively indifferent (and that's fine - strikeouts for a hitter aren't special). It has been the general approach and how long his swing got. He's never going to be an on-base machine but he can do enough to get to his power, which yeah is pretty good.

[Dojji]

It comes down to OBP, because OBP is a measure of consistency. There is no sliding scale between OBP and power. OBP is simply a measure of how many times per 1000 playe appearances that you do something useful. If you're not doing useful things with a high percentage of your PA's you're not making the most of your other offensive talents, like power or speed, either. It's why modern sabermetrics stresses OBP so much, because it underlies everything else

 

Middlebrooks has a low consistency level because his offensive skills is not good. Forcing him to improve those skills at the cost of a few at bats early in his career is a short term loss long term gain move, you'll get a much better player out of him in the long run if he can improve his approach at the plate even a little bit.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Dojji

[jung]

WMB has to develop an approach at the plate. It does not have to be based on the kinds of things the Sox seemed to be insistent on earlier this year but he has to have an approach. That swing of his absolutely begs to be attached to an approach that is consistent with it. He has time to develop it since he is so damned young. I just wish he showed more interest in developing it even at his young age. I sure as hell hope he does not think he has one now because he doesn't. He swings at too many s*** pitches and lets too many good pitches go by for me to think what he has now is an approach of any sort. If he wants to "let it ripe" he absolutely can do that but he does have to have an approach going to the plate. As a part of that effort his pitch recognition has got to get better.

 

As was mentioned earlier by another poster, Ortiz is a free swinger. He lets it ripe virtually every time he steps to the plate. But he knows what he is looking for and he knows what pitches he should avoid even if they are in the strike zone. David very rarely deviates from his approach. When he does Ortiz clearly sees it as a mistake. You can see his frustration and disappointment almost immediately. David does not hide it very well. And yes, David's pitch recognition is outstanding.

[sk7326]

It comes down to OBP, because OBP is a measure of consistency. There is no sliding scale between OBP and power. OBP is simply a measure of how many times per 1000 playe appearances that you do something useful. If you're not doing useful things with a high percentage of your PA's you're not making the most of your other offensive talents, like power or speed, either. It's why modern sabermetrics stresses OBP so much, because it underlies everything else

 

Middlebrooks has a low consistency level because his offensive skills is not good. Forcing him to improve those skills at the cost of a few at bats early in his career is a short term loss long term gain move, you'll get a much better player out of him in the long run if he can improve his approach at the plate even a little bit.

 

It's not a sliding scale thing ... it is more that there is a threshold level of OBP where you are not hurting your team. The league average is .320 or so for instance - so it is safe to say .310-.320 is something which can play if you bring other stuff to the table, like legitimate power. This is basically the difference between 2012 Josh Reddick and the Red Sox incarnation of Reddick. He did not become an on-base machine, because that's just not going to happen for him. His on-base got good enough to not be hurting his team, and to let the stuff he did inconsistently (hit the ball very far) and consistently (manage his position) happen.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's not a sliding scale thing ... it is more that there is a threshold level of OBP where you are not hurting your team. The league average is .320 or so for instance - so it is safe to say .310-.320 is something which can play if you bring other stuff to the table, like legitimate power. This is basically the difference between 2012 Josh Reddick and the Red Sox incarnation of Reddick. He did not become an on-base machine, because that's just not going to happen for him. His on-base got good enough to not be hurting his team, and to let the stuff he did inconsistently (hit the ball very far) and consistently (manage his position) happen.

 

It's also based in large part on comparative measures. For example, MLB league average 3B has a .317 OBP this year, so Middlebrooks, on the year, is well below that mark. It should be noted, though, that he's got a .354 OBP since returning, and has 11 BB in 38 games. This is a huge contrast to his 9 BB in his 53 games to start the year.

 

His approach and mechanics have certainly changed.

 

Going forward, a line of .280/.330/.485 is certainly reasonable.

[User Name]

jung, did you seriously just say that "Ortiz is a free swinger" and later said "he knows what he's looking for, and rarely deviates from his plan"? Do you not see the inconsistencies in your thought process? And you're still beating this WMB topic to death based on the idea that you have that the Red Sox are messing with his approach, which is conjecture at its best, and outright fabrication at its worst.

[Bellhorn04]

FWIW, a poster on the Globe forum has been drawing comparisons between WMB and Mark Reynolds. At first that sounds a little outrageous, but the more you look at it, it's not that far-fetched. The main differences - Reynolds strikes out more, but also walks a lot more. He's more of a TTO hitter I guess. But in terms of OPS, streakiness and productivity, the comparison might be valid. Time will tell.

[sk7326]

FWIW, a poster on the Globe forum has been drawing comparisons between WMB and Mark Reynolds. At first that sounds a little outrageous, but the more you look at it, it's not that far-fetched. The main differences - Reynolds strikes out more, but also walks a lot more. He's more of a TTO hitter I guess. But in terms of OPS, streakiness and productivity, the comparison might be valid. Time will tell.

 

The walks lean in favor of Reynolds - but he also is an absolute disaster in the field. Middlebrooks was good last season, though earlier this year it has not been good (his slump early clearly bled into his whole game). Middlebrooks has the athletic ability (and some past performance) to be a much more valuable asset in the field than Reynolds.