Shane Victornio? If So Cherington Must Go!

[a700hitter]

It's insane inflationary prices this year. How the hell did BJ Upton get 75 million after posting a .298 OBP?

We spent $39 million on a guy who, at this point in his career, is little better than Brett Gardner.

[Palodios]

And Bourn wants 100M

 

Shoot, I mixed up Upton and Victorino. They're all in there for comparison now.

[crc2120]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

 

Sources: #Guardians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox.

[SCM33]

We spent $39 million on a guy who, at this point in his career, is little better than Brett Gardner.

 

Lets wait and see here.

 

If they trade Ellsbury/Salty/Kalish for a good arm and bullpen help, then turn around and sign Swisher......then this is a great deal.

 

Not only are they moving bad blood out, they are bringing in new, fresh blood.....guys who actually appear that they give a s*** about winning.

[jung]

BJ Upton....28 HR's that's why and HR and total base numbers that have continually been climbing each year. Clearly the Braves think those numbers will continue to climb from where he is today at age 28. HR power or increasing HR power is traditionally what rings the cash register for hitters. That is why Agons contract was while not as bad as CC's still bad with diminished HR power. AGons was actually hitting them at an even lower rate in LA after he went there. Be interesting to see how he starts the year just to see what happens with the guy.

[MANNYHOF24]

Bens plan is obviously to deal Ellsbury for pitching and then throw the world at Hamilton and swisher.

[BSN07]

Bens plan is obviously to deal Ellsbury for pitching and then throw the world at Hamilton and swisher.

 

that be an interesting story. Twitter might have a stroke though...

[BSN07]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

 

Sources: #Guardians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox.

 

Exactly what I've been saying

[Palodios]

Bens plan is obviously to deal Ellsbury for pitching and then throw the world at Hamilton and swisher.

 

It doesn't even need to be Ellsbury-- Bradley is a guy who might bring back a pitcher. This move gives the team a considerable amount of flexibility-- Ben can move any combination of Bradley/Kalish/Brentz/Ellsbury now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

From 2010-2012, Victorino had a 13.0 WAR.

 

That's 11th best of ALL outfielders.

 

That's ahead of: Matt Kemp, Carlos Gonzalez, Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Shin Soo Choo, Hunter Pence, Jayson Werth, Andre Ethier.

 

He's 0.1 point below a guy named Giancarlo Stanton.

 

He's very underrated, admittedly by myself as well.

[KCBRUIN]

Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

 

Sources: #Guardians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox.

 

So the Sox are paying $5million less, and out of the contract a year earlier. That's exactly the kind of deals I wanted them making this year. Higher annual salary for less years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Guess I should mention - That's better than Nick Swisher (11.9), too.

[Palodios]

From 2010-2012, Victorino had a 13.0 WAR.

 

That's 11th best of ALL outfielders.

 

That's ahead of: Matt Kemp, Carlos Gonzalez, Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Shin Soo Choo, Hunter Pence, Jayson Werth, Andre Ethier.

 

He's 0.1 point below a guy named Giancarlo Stanton.

 

He's very underrated, admittedly by myself as well.

 

I've been calling for Victorino all offseason. Admittedly, for a third of the price they picked him up for... but at his best, he's a franchise caliber player, and he is a guy with plenty of playoff World Series experience.

[BSN07]

From 2010-2012, Victorino had a 13.0 WAR.

 

That's 11th best of ALL outfielders.

 

That's ahead of: Matt Kemp, Carlos Gonzalez, Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Jacoby Ellsbury, Shin Soo Choo, Hunter Pence, Jayson Werth, Andre Ethier.

 

He's 0.1 point below a guy named Giancarlo Stanton.

 

He's very underrated, admittedly by myself as well.

 

Nice homework. I like this deal more and more.

[wyo-sox]

I dont really get the line in the sand with Cody Ross at two years, then go and give Shane three years

[Bellhorn04]

I dont really get the line in the sand with Cody Ross at two years, then go and give Shane three years

 

If you break down Ross's season, he did most of his damage in Fenway, against lefties, in the first half. And he's not a good defender.

[BSN07]

I dont really get the line in the sand with Cody Ross at two years, then go and give Shane three years

 

Victorino is better?

[jung]

Moving Ells in some combination is the only way this makes sense. That I would believe as Ells is not going to sign any kind of an extension and moving him before he gets hurt again might be the best thing to do. Probably have to package him somehow with only one year left on his deal and if you are really going to try to get something for him. However the Sox do have some other chips to play with.

[Lucienbel]

I'm personally a fan of this deal. Defensively he'll be a good fit in right field, and he'll be good as a number seven hitter. Still has a lot of speed, and seems to have a pretty good personality. Again, the Sox aren't tied down to him too long either. Not a terrible move at all.

[seabeachfred]

I'm not overall happy with the terms. But victorino is a decent player and adds some speed to this overall slow roster. If Swisher signs for something similar I will be a bit disappointed but calling for Cherries head is hyperbole. It's a meh move, not great, not bad. Not all deals are slam dunks.

 

Then we have to assume BSN that Shane just had an off year this season and is young enough to stage a comeback season or two or three. If so, we're fine; if not, we may be in deep s***!!!!!!!. No one should be asking for Cherington's head on this. We just have to see how this plays out now that he is in Red Sox livery, but I think we could have done better. I like his defense and I like his speed and I like his attitude, but I;m not sure I like his bat, and, let's face it, we was brought in mostly because we are counting on him to hit well again.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm personally a fan of this deal. Defensively he'll be a good fit in right field, and he'll be good as a number seven hitter. Still has a lot of speed, and seems to have a pretty good personality. Again, the Sox aren't tied down to him too long either. Not a terrible move at all.

 

I hit him 2, and put Pedroia in the 3 slot myself.

 

This team doesn't have the depth right now that it used to. Pedroia is probably this teams best #3 hitter right now.

 

That's not a bad thing, either.

[User Name]

This topic is silly. Going into 2012, Victorino was an absolute stud. .847 OPS, .355 OBP, 17 home runs, 19 steals, 27 doubles, 16 triples, elite-elite defense in center, tons and tons of speed. He had 6 wins above replacement. That's pretty damn good.

 

Was he overpaid? Sure. But Victorino is a very very good player. At his worst he's still solid. At his best, he's a franchise player.

 

Whoa there, easy on the hyperbole.

[User Name]

I hit him 2, and put Pedroia in the 3 slot myself.

 

This team doesn't have the depth right now that it used to. Pedroia is probably this teams best #3 hitter right now.

 

That's not a bad thing, either.

 

I'm riding this boat.

[RiceLynnEvans]

Didn't like the Napoli deal - subpar catcher, worse 1B and a rapidly slowing bat - he looked horrible down the stretch in Texas last year and was completely over-matched by decent pitching; absolutely HATE the Victorino deal - speed goes first and the guy's a 32, career 275 hitter with massive weakness vs. lefties, good glove but 13 mill a year for a glove and a below avg hitter? Sounds like a nice fourth OF.

 

It seems that this may be the end for Els - why else sign a guy whose only strength is his CF abilities. Probably Els, Kalish and Salty for Hamilton or a prime starter. I really hope they can pull in Choo and Masterson for an Els package. I really think we struck out by overlooking Choo - of course, Boras but the guy's a solid young stud.

[MANNYHOF24]

The way I see the rest of the offseason playing out...

 

Sign Hamilton 4 years 100 million

Sign swisher 3 years 45 million

Trade Ellsbury salt, doubront and a good prospect for pitching help

Sign McCarthy

Sign drew

Sign Brian Wilson

 

Victorino CF

Pedroia 2B

Ortiz Dh

Hamilton RF

Middlebrooks 3B

Napoli/swisher 1B

Swisher/ Gomes LF

Lavarnway/Ross/Napoli C

Stephen Drew SS

 

Rotation

1. return from Ellsbury trade (no ideas yet)

2. Lester

3. Buchholz

4. McCarthy

5. Lackey

 

Bullpen

Miller

Bard

Bailey

Aceves

Brian Wilson

 

That is a championship contending team, while only sacrificing one high grade prospect.

[jung]

Don't know about Drew but I fully expect Ells to be gone now.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Lester + Ellsbury for Wil Myers?

[User Name]

Hamilton AND Swisher? Yeah that's not happening.

[Palodios]

Lester + Ellsbury for Wil Myers?

 

Ew.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ew.

 

Just spitballing.