2012 Red Sox Spring Training Game Thread

[redsoxfan3]

Aceves starts today. This is his last shot to make a case for a starting spot. I think Bard is already the favorite, but if Aceves wants any chance to start, then he needs to have a quality outing and redeem himself after his last start.

[a700hitter]

Aceves starts today. This is his last shot to make a case for a starting spot. I think Bard is already the favorite' date=' but if Aceves wants any chance to start, then he needs to have a quality outing and redeem himself after his last start.[/quote']Does Bard pitch on Friday? What's going on with Ohlendorf? I saw him for a few innings in Florida. He got outs against scrubs, but he looked unimpressive. I haven't read a thing about him.

[VA Sox Fan]

Does Bard pitch on Friday? What's going on with Ohlendorf? I saw him for a few innings in Florida. He got outs against scrubs' date=' but he looked unimpressive. I haven't read a thing about him.[/quote']

 

Yes Bard pitches Friday. Haven't heard anything about Ohlendorf.

[redsoxfan3]

Does Bard pitch on Friday? What's going on with Ohlendorf? I saw him for a few innings in Florida. He got outs against scrubs' date=' but he looked unimpressive. I haven't read a thing about him.[/quote']

 

Like VA said, Bard takes the mound Friday. I have not heard anything new about Ohlendorf. He is not in the plans to pitch anymore games in Spring Training. I don't know if he is going to be pitching in minor league games. I haven't heard of him being optioned to AAA either. I know he won't be pitching on the major league roster to start the season, that is a no brainer. I don't know what is going on with him.

[VA Sox Fan]

Felix Doubront update: In a High-A game against Twins prospects: 6 IP (21 batters), 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K, 84 pitches, 62 strikes. That was just what they planned for. He seems set to be the No. 4 starter.

[pedroias laser]

I honestly feel alot better about our 4th starter right now then i would say 2 weeks ago.

I'm an upbeat type of fan and always look for the positives but within reason of course.

[jung]

I agree VA. I have been satisfied that with the options available to the Sox, Doubront has done the job and earned the 4 spot. Bard is a 5 to me especially when you consider the number of innings he will save at the 5 and the fact that dice is probably going to make it back at some point this year unless something goes really wrong.

 

In fact I think this is working out pretty good for the Sox if it goes this way. The Sox get to fully vet Bard as a starter and that could turn out to be a big deal for this organization.

 

By the time dice comes back, the Sox will be able to choose what to do at that point.

 

I am not happy with Iggy going down but given the available options if Doubront 4 and Bard 5 is the result and either Iggy comes back or Aviles plays well enough to keep him down on the farm (way less likely) then let the season begin and lets see what we really have. I think the real issue for the Sox and not having Iggy is that Youk is fading defensively at 3rd and Youk and Aviles is a pretty weak left side defensively. Iggy would be enormously helpful to a team that on the face of it is not very good defensively and a team that could be exposed defensively as it was last year if the pitching does not excel.

 

Don't get me wrong. There are other issues that this team has and it still really bowls down to 1,2, 3 in the rotation. All I am saying is that based on the guys they went into ST with, with the exception of Iggy going down, with Doubront at the 4 and Bard at the 5 and Aceves back to the pen, I think they are doing what they can do with this grouping of personnel.

[a700hitter]

Aceves line of the day: 6 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, 87 pitches, 54 strikes.

[Station 13]

Aceves line of the day: 6 IP' date=' 3 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, 87 pitches, 54 strikes.[/quote']

 

Gotta take him over Bard in the rotation.

[BornToRun]

I want ace in the pen. He's too valuable

[pedroias laser]

I guarantee right now that it will be Aceves and Doubront as the 4th and 5th starter with Bard back in the bullpen. Bard is just to valuable right now for them to allow him to start not with the bullpen as

a possible detriment right now.

[a700hitter]

I guarantee right now that it will be Aceves and Doubront as the 4th and 5th starter with Bard back in the bullpen. Bard is just to valuable right now for them to allow him to start not with the bullpen as

a possible detriment right now.

Aceves spring ERA is 5.50 and Bard's is a Lackey-ish 7.23. It is not encouraging that with one week left until opening day that we still don't know who will be the 5 starters and that the choices for 4 and 5 are not very good at all. Maybe everyone's pitching is this thin? I don't know.

[pedroias laser]

I honestly believe it will be Aceves and Doubront. I do believe it's a thin back end of a

rotation but i don't think BV has a choice considering the Bullpen that he has at 1 wk till

opening day.

[User Name]

Aceves is more valuable than Bard in the bullpen.

[Spudboy]

I honestly feel alot better about our 4th starter right now then i would say 2 weeks ago.

I'm an upbeat type of fan and always look for the positives but within reason of course.

 

In other words, you are a breath of fresh air in these parts!

[Spudboy]

Aceves is more valuable than Bard in the bullpen.

 

I agree fully.

 

I know that very recently I have stated that I preferred to have Bard in the pen and Aceves in the rotation. I am not a hypocrite. I've just given it more thought ( dangerous to know that I am thinking! ) and have done an about face.

 

I'm of the belief that Aceves is more valuable in the pen because he is versatile. He can go long relief, mid relief, and set-up. And with his experience starting for the Yankees and the Sox, he can make spot starts and even move to the rotation if needed.

 

Bard...... I loved watching him pitch set-up. But he has real upside as a starter. In the 5 spot he will be afforded the opportunity to continue his development as a starter. He is a work -in-progress. If viewed in this light, it all makes more sense. At least to me it does.

[redsoxfan3]

Gotta take him over Bard in the rotation.

 

Not so sure about that. Bard has made progress. He has struggled, that is for sure. I am not confident in either of the two as of right now. I will be more confident with Bard if he can give us a decent outing tomorrow. Aceves didn't fair so well two starts ago, but did pitched well today. I think that wichever one of the two is in the rotation will have ups and downs as a starter, especially early on. If Bard does decent tomorrow, then I think he gets the nod as the starter.

 

I guarantee right now that it will be Aceves and Doubront as the 4th and 5th starter with Bard back in the bullpen. Bard is just to valuable right now for them to allow him to start not with the bullpen as

a possible detriment right now.

 

I don't know how you can guarantee that. Actually, mostly what the Globe is reporting is the complete opposite. If Bard pitches solid tomorrow, then I think Aceves goes back to the pen and Bard stays in the rotation. Aceves is arguably just as valuable in the pen as Bard is. We just need one of the two in the pen. I think with Melancon, Bailey, and Aceves that they will give us a decent pen.

[a700hitter]

Not so sure about that. Bard has made progress. He has struggled, that is for sure. I am not confident in either of the two as of right now. I will be more confident with Bard if he can give us a decent outing tomorrow. Aceves didn't fair so well two starts ago, but did pitched well today. I think that wichever one of the two is in the rotation will have ups and downs as a starter, especially early on. If Bard does decent tomorrow, then I think he gets the nod as the starter.

 

 

 

I don't know how you can guarantee that. Actually, mostly what the Globe is reporting is the complete opposite. If Bard pitches solid tomorrow, then I think Aceves goes back to the pen and Bard stays in the rotation. Aceves is arguably just as valuable in the pen as Bard is. We just need one of the two in the pen. I think with Melancon, Bailey, and Aceves that they will give us a decent pen.

Aceves only had one bad outing. It was a terrible outing, but the others were good in my recollection. Bard hasn't had one good outing.

[Station 13]

Aceves is valuable in the bullpen if there is a resemblance of a starting rotation.

[Station 13]

Aceves only had one bad outing. It was a terrible outing' date=' but the others were good in my recollection. Bard hasn't had one good outing.[/quote']

 

Aceves has pitch better than Lester and Buchholz this spring. Obviously it's just spring. Bard need to be send to AAA if he want to learn to pitch as a starter.

[User Name]

Healthy top three plus a league-average Doubront (we're assuming here) is not a "semblance" of a rotation?

 

If the top three f*** up, neither Aceves nor anyone is saving us either way.

 

Also, i couldn't disagree more with the idea of sending Bard down. He has nothing left to prove in the Minors. If he's going to be converted, it should be as a #5 in the Majors.

[redsoxfan3]

Aceves only had one bad outing. It was a terrible outing' date=' but the others were good in my recollection. Bard hasn't had one good outing.[/quote']

 

I am aware of that, but I think Bard is still making progress. I am not really confident in either as a starter. I am still not really willing to say I like one over the other until I see how Bard performs tomorrow.

 

Aceves has pitch better than Lester and Buchholz this spring. Obviously it's just spring. Bard need to be send to AAA if he want to learn to pitch as a starter.

 

What are you talking about? Aceves' ERA is worse than both of Lester and Buchholz's. Aceves has had one poor outing, but to say he has pitched better than Lester and Buchholz is a stretch. He has pitched well in all of his performances, except one. Lester had a 7 inning shutout the other night if I remember correctly. Bard is not going to AAA. Either we go through the growing pains of having him in the rotation or we put him back in the pen, there is no way in hell he is going to AAA. Let's not get carried away.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Aceves spring ERA is 5.50 and Bard's is a Lackey-ish 7.23. It is not encouraging that with one week left until opening day that we still don't know who will be the 5 starters and that the choices for 4 and 5 are not very good at all. Maybe everyone's pitching is this thin? I don't know.

 

You can look at ST numbers if you'd like, I prefer not to because they're extremely deceiving (See: Toronto Blue Jays).

 

But if you want to - the Red Sox have a 3.90 ERA this spring. The Rays have a 4.46 ERA, and the Yankees have a 3.72.

 

For the Sox, Beckett has a 0.95 ERA, Lester a 3.50 (but was nothing short of outstanding in his last outing), Buchholz a 4.80, Doubront a 2.70, and youv'e cited Ace and Bard.

 

For the Yanks, CC has a 4.50 ERA, Pineda a 3.31 (albeit with lower velocity), Nova a 6.86, Kuroda a 2.91, Hughes a 2.03, and Garcia a 2.92.

 

For the Rays, Sheilds 2.04, Price 3.79, Moore 9.00, Hellickson 10.13, Niemman 4.05.

 

If you're just looking at those numbers, the Sox have the 2nd best rotation, well above the Rays, and have a much, much better offense.

 

But, the Blue Jays have a 2.60 team ERA, which is why I don't read into these numbers, both for team and individual.

[redsoxfan3]

You can look at ST numbers if you'd like, I prefer not to because they're extremely deceiving (See: Toronto Blue Jays).

 

But if you want to - the Red Sox have a 3.90 ERA this spring. The Rays have a 4.46 ERA, and the Yankees have a 3.72.

 

For the Sox, Beckett has a 0.95 ERA, Lester a 3.50 (but was nothing short of outstanding in his last outing), Buchholz a 4.80, Doubront a 2.70, and youv'e cited Ace and Bard.

 

For the Yanks, CC has a 4.50 ERA, Pineda a 3.31 (albeit with lower velocity), Nova a 6.86, Kuroda a 2.91, Hughes a 2.03, and Garcia a 2.92.

 

For the Rays, Sheilds 2.04, Price 3.79, Moore 9.00, Hellickson 10.13, Niemman 4.05.

 

If you're just looking at those numbers, the Sox have the 2nd best rotation, well above the Rays, and have a much, much better offense.

 

But, the Blue Jays have a 2.60 team ERA, which is why I don't read into these numbers, both for team and individual.

 

Like you said, the Spring stats are deceiving. Pitchers try to work on different pitches and mix up their arsenal in Spring Training so that batters do not see everything they have. The thing I look for most in Spring Training is progress. Take Bard for example, he has not pitched well as a starter this Spring, but this is his first time pitching several innings like this in a few years. He is starting to get comfortable pitching as a starter againg and will progressively get better. As a 5th starter, if he has a 4.00 ERA and keeps his WHIP down, then I will be extremely happy.

[jung]

As I am sure you know, I am very much in agreement with you UN.

[TylerD]

Instead of deciding between Aceves or Bard we should just make it simple.... Leave both out of the starting Five. And take Miller sure its a gamble, but hey sometimes in life you just have to take risks Anyhow ive said my irrelevant pointless statement for the night. Im off to bed. Night all!

[iortiz]

I thought that ST was going to be thermometer in order to give the 4-5 spots in our case since we do not have "natural/proved/solid" SPs at 4-5. If ST is not the go/no-go, i want to know what will be the criteria in order to give the spots...

[iortiz]

Call me crazy but At this point and after watching Doubront this ST, I feel more comfortable with him than with Oswalt. On the other hand nobody has earned the 5th spot, but as some said, Aceves could eat a lot of innings in the BP and hopefully somehow Bard at least give us a 4.5 ERA and 140+ IP. There's no more gentlemen, cross your fingers, and let's support our team.

 

Let's go Red Sox.

[jung]

To be honest iortiz although nobody is going to admit it, I think Bard would have had to have fallen completely off the apply cart to not get at least the 5 spot. The FO has wanted him in the rotation and I suspect that is what they are going to get.

 

It just so happens that I also think that is the right thing to do, with Doubront as the 4. Now if the FO had pushed Bard into the 4 hole, based on his performance so far this spring I would have been squakin'. But I think putting him in the 5 and sending Aceves back to the pen is as close to getting it right as I would have hoped for.

 

As far as Miller goes, I like Miller probably even more than most but Bard has more upside than both Miller and Aceves as a starter and this is the time to vet that possibility. Things could not be falling into place better in that regard. You have Bard in the 5 which will limit the number of starts and total innings to begin with and dice hopefully staying on track to come back at least by July and maybe sooner if the Sox get real lucky.

 

I think what they will look for from Bard on Friday is fewer walks and most specifically fewer walks with nobody out in an inning. He was OK for the most part his last outing until the 6th inning when he hit the first batter and walked the second.

 

The other thing I think they will look for is more of the mental attitude of the starter. In that same 6th inning in his last outing Bard obviously got himself into a late jam having allowed the first two guys in the inning on base. He had one out with one run in that inning when a left handed hitter stepped to the plate. Bard got ahead with a 1-2 count but then just grooved a pitch with a man on third. I mean that thing was belt high, right down the middle. The hitter bounced one to the right side of the plate which was an auto-run scored which also tied the game, whipping out the Sox one run lead. The Sox had come into that inning up by two runs.

 

Regardless of what sort of jams he got into during that outing I would have been much more impressed had he left that 6th inning having limited the damage to one run and having preserved the Sox lead as he exited the game. That is the sort of situational pitching that is expected of a starter and makes a big impression on me as far as starting pitchers are concerned.

 

So I think they will let him try to pitch out of jams that he gets into in an effort to see if he is growing even here in the spring in his understanding of situational pitching as a starter.

 

We have all watched this process of selecting a 4 and 5 with a great deal of interest this spring. I hope watching the various candidates pitch has also given us more of an understanding for the challenges of starting in the ML.

 

To be honest I have enjoyed this immensely. We have been able to watch some guys that have the mentality of the starter but very likely lack the stuff to survive in the AL East. Maybe Cook comes to mind here. We have been able to watch guys like Doubront who has been able to hone his skills as a starter in the minors and now for the most part has the presence of a starter with better stuff than a Cook for example. At the other end of the spectrum we have gotten to watch Bard with tremendous potential and great stuff while still adapting to a role that requires the ability to situational pitch, batter after batter, inning after inning.

[a700hitter]

You can look at ST numbers if you'd like, I prefer not to because they're extremely deceiving (See: Toronto Blue Jays).

 

But if you want to - the Red Sox have a 3.90 ERA this spring. The Rays have a 4.46 ERA, and the Yankees have a 3.72.

 

For the Sox, Beckett has a 0.95 ERA, Lester a 3.50 (but was nothing short of outstanding in his last outing), Buchholz a 4.80, Doubront a 2.70, and youv'e cited Ace and Bard.

 

For the Yanks, CC has a 4.50 ERA, Pineda a 3.31 (albeit with lower velocity), Nova a 6.86, Kuroda a 2.91, Hughes a 2.03, and Garcia a 2.92.

 

For the Rays, Sheilds 2.04, Price 3.79, Moore 9.00, Hellickson 10.13, Niemman 4.05.

 

If you're just looking at those numbers, the Sox have the 2nd best rotation, well above the Rays, and have a much, much better offense.

 

But, the Blue Jays have a 2.60 team ERA, which is why I don't read into these numbers, both for team and individual.

When a pitcher is trying to win a spot in the rotation, his spring stats and performance mean something. He doesn't have the luxury of working on certain pitches etc. They are not veteran starters wqho have locked up spots. Doubront stepped up, but the rest have not. It's not a good sign.