Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[a700hitter]

Believe me i feel the same about the bullpen as everyone else regarding the thin depth

and injuries. I get emotional as well believe me but i think we should just enjoy the

ride and wait until the break to see a good body of work before we get more emotional

haha.

Agreed, but I do prefer to lower my expectations so the emotional crash will not be too bad.

[pedroias laser]

Agreed' date=' but I do prefer to lower my expectations so the emotional crash will not be too bad.[/quote']

 

HAHA i always have low expectations for any team that i root for. I for one would love

to see the sox do well that's why i love the game of baseball anything can happen on

any given day it's a beautiful thing.

[a700hitter]

Are we all on the same page that this might be a transitional year?.

I was hoping that this would not be a transitional year. I am still hoping against that. We have so much talent in house that a transitional year makes little sense to me. This team doesn't need major surgery to be a powerhouse. It just needs a few tweaks and additions. I know a lot of people were looking at next year's FA pitching market as a treasure trove, but the good guys are starting to come off the market. Cain is off the market now, and if Hamels gets extended, there will not be a very deep FA pool in 2012.

[a700hitter]

Agreed' date=' but I do prefer to lower my expectations so the emotional crash will not be too bad.[/quote']It is a very tough game to predict. Someone said it earlier about the unpredictability. The pitching might end up fine and the offense might s*** the bed for all we know.

[pedroias laser]

I was hoping that this would not be a transitional year. I am still hoping against that. We have so much talent in house that a transitional year makes little sense to me. This team doesn't need major surgery to be a powerhouse. It just needs a few tweaks and additions. I know a lot of people were looking at next year's FA pitching market as a treasure trove' date=' but the good guys are starting to come off the market. Cain is off the market now, and if Hamels gets extended, there will not be a very deep FA pool in 2012.[/quote']

 

 

I happen to agree with the Cain statement. I honestly still do not see how a pitcher like

Cain makes that amount of money. I do not put him in the same class as a Verlander

or say a Halladay.

[redsoxbeatz]

There is so much negativity surrounding the Red Sox and the season hasn't even f***ing STARTED yet!! It's un-freaking-believable and yet totally normal for this to be happening. I want to see our god damn players play from the "hole" they are in before I start putting them in my rear view mirror.

 

It sure does suck to see Bailey go down for 3+ months & now only being able to pray that Cherrington does something significant before/on the trade deadline.

 

Anyway, I'm pumped for the season. Can't wait for the first game! I'm expecting an offense equal to last seasons and with Beckett/Lester/Buch being our anchors. Who needs a closer when you're up 8 in the 8th anyway? (lol the red sox do...)

[MANNYHOF24]

I happen to agree with the Cain statement. I honestly still do not see how a pitcher like

Cain makes that amount of money. I do not put him in the same class as a Verlander

or say a Halladay.

 

Really? The guy is a 220+ inning guy whose ERA is bellow 3.20 consistently. The guy is a horse, don't be fooled by his win-loss record, it's meaningless.

[pedroias laser]

Really? The guy is a 220+ inning guy whose ERA is bellow 3.20 consistently. The guy is a horse' date=' don't be fooled by his win-loss record, it's meaningless.[/quote']

 

I wasn't questioning him being a horse and a true innings eater. I was questioning how

the giants could pay him the richest contract for a right hander in history?. I don't get

it, I honestly don't think and it's my opinion that he is worth that much dough considering

that there are better pitchers that are more dominant day in and day out.

[kapsis21]

Really? The guy is a 220+ inning guy whose ERA is bellow 3.20 consistently. The guy is a horse' date=' don't be fooled by his win-loss record, it's meaningless.[/quote']

 

yep i agree if Carl Crawford is worth that much and has yet to do anything i think someone like Matt Cain who has been a workhorse for Giants, i see them paying him that much.

[kapsis21]

I wasn't questioning him being a horse and a true innings eater. I was questioning how

the giants could pay him the richest contract for a right hander in history?. I don't get

it, I honestly don't think and it's my opinion that he is worth that much dough considering

that there are better pitchers that are more dominant day in and day out.

 

but he has been a really good pitcher for them.. 6 years 127, maybe pushing it.. but if Crawford and Lackey make so much and yet do nothing.. its just makes more sense to keep him .. i dont agree with the amount though

[User Name]

but he has been a really good pitcher for them.. 6 years 127' date=' maybe pushing it.. [b']but if Crawford and Lackey make so much and yet do nothing..[/b] its just makes more sense to keep him .. i dont agree with the amount though

 

That's inconsequential to the amount of money they're paying him though.

[pedroias laser]

but he has been a really good pitcher for them.. 6 years 127' date=' maybe pushing it.. but if Crawford and Lackey make so much and yet do nothing.. its just makes more sense to keep him .. i dont agree with the amount though[/quote']

 

 

Completely agree he has been great for them!. I just don't think he is as dominant as

others regarding elite status and that's the type of money he has recieved.

[kapsis21]

That's inconsequential to the amount of money they're paying him though.

 

nope, like i said the amount is 10-15 mill more then i would have liked. but it still makes sense for Giants to keep him.

[kapsis21]

Completely agree he has been great for them!. I just don't think he is as dominant as

others regarding elite status and that's the type of money he has recieved.

 

i do think you have a point though, he is no Cliff Lee or Halladay yet they are paying him that price.. now does that mean Freakshow will get even a better payday...

[User Name]

nope' date=' like i said the amount is 10-15 mill more then i would have liked. but it still makes sense for Giants to keep him.[/quote']

 

I understand that it makes sense for them to keep it. What i am debating are the merits on which you justify the overpayment.

 

We agree in principle, the Giants had to extend him.

[pedroias laser]

i do think you have a point though' date=' he is no Cliff Lee or Halladay yet they are paying him that price.. now does that mean Freakshow will get even a better payday...[/quote']

 

I think he will without a question. I also cannot wait to see what Verlander gets when his

time comes up in FA that should be interesting to say the least.

[seabeachfred]

Your "assesments" of Cherington have little in the way of coherent thinking and a lot of emotion and nonsense. Cut the crap Fred.

 

That's your "assesment" User and how you can defend Cherington when no one in the Boston media or press is just boggles the mind. He has been a disaster from Day One, first getting shined on by the Cubs over the compensation for Epstein, then compounding it with that trade for the tin man who gets injured every time he blinks. The guy is risk adverse, has trouble making a decision, and is nothing more than a replacement clone for the departing GM, the one, who BTW, was appointed over bungling Ben back in 2003.

 

Keep swabbing Ben's deck if you like UN but I will go by what I'm seeing. We not only need a closer, we need a GM who knows what the hell he's doing and doesn't lean on Carmine the Computer like a crutch. Why don't you tune in Felzer and Mazz and see what they have to say. I'm afraid you are in a shrinking minority of Ben's Boosters.

[seabeachfred]

Believe me i feel the same about the bullpen as everyone else regarding the thin depth

and injuries. I get emotional as well believe me but i think we should just enjoy the

ride and wait until the break to see a good body of work before we get more emotional

haha.

 

If things don't pick in a hurry you aren't going to enjoy the ride for very long. Perhaps you prefer to gloss over the inequities of our team but some of us don't. I still think we could make something of this season but with players starting to drop like raindrops the margin for error has reached critical mass. Personnel mistakes were made this past off season like resigning Ortiz when he needed pitching, letting Epstein go to Chicago and then bungling the compensation issue, trading for a closer who is little more than paper mache and gets on the DL every time he burps, not to mention trading Scutaro and getting nothing in return for him and not using the six million we saved from that trade to get a much needed picture.

 

Learn something from the get-go Peddy; I live and die with the Red Sox and it infuritates me when I see things happening to them that never should. I can only hope that tomorrow when the team takes the field they will prove themselves better than the clowns in the front office who supposedly leads them. That will make all of us smile.

[a700hitter]

That's your "assesment" User and how you can defend Cherington when no one in the Boston media or press is just boggles the mind. He has been a disaster from Day One, first getting shined on by the Cubs over the compensation for Epstein, then compounding it with that trade for the tin man who gets injured every time he blinks. The guy is risk adverse, has trouble making a decision, and is nothing more than a replacement clone for the departing GM, the one, who BTW, was appointed over bungling Ben back in 2003.

 

Keep swabbing Ben's deck if you like UN but I will go by what I'm seeing. We not only need a closer, we need a GM who knows what the hell he's doing and doesn't lean on Carmine the Computer like a crutch. Why don't you tune in Felzer and Mazz and see what they have to say. I'm afraid you are in a shrinking minority of Ben's Boosters.

Let's not forget that he admitted to being unaware that the White Sox were shopping their closer, Santos until he got traded to our division rival Blue Jays. He'd look pretty good in a Red Sox uni right now. Let's overlook that too. We should also overlook the fact that after months of negotiating with the Cubs, he agrees to take a guy with a bone spur in his elbow-- and he is a bum to boot. Offering Ortiz arbitration was a beautifully thought out move too. Starting the season with 3 experienced starters and no full time SS. Are we being too hard on him? Let's put it this way. I am waiting for him to do something right. I do like Cody Ross. I'll put that one in the plus column.

[User Name]

That's your "assesment" User and how you can defend Cherington when no one in the Boston media or press is just boggles the mind. He has been a disaster from Day One, first getting shined on by the Cubs over the compensation for Epstein, then compounding it with that trade for the tin man who gets injured every time he blinks. The guy is risk adverse, has trouble making a decision, and is nothing more than a replacement clone for the departing GM, the one, who BTW, was appointed over bungling Ben back in 2003.

 

Keep swabbing Ben's deck if you like UN but I will go by what I'm seeing. We not only need a closer, we need a GM who knows what the hell he's doing and doesn't lean on Carmine the Computer like a crutch. Why don't you tune in Felzer and Mazz and see what they have to say. I'm afraid you are in a shrinking minority of Ben's Boosters.

 

What are you seeing exactly is my question?

 

What's the basis for your judgment? The couple bucks the FO left the guy to spend? The bloated payroll? Limited roster options?

 

Try being a little rational, for once.

 

When we see a full season/offseason where he can freely execute a game plan, i'll pass judgment, and if he sucks, i'll be the first one calling for his head.

 

But of course, i'd rather take my time and come up with some informed criticism instead of ranting like a lunatic.

[User Name]

Let's not forget that he admitted to being unaware that the White Sox were shopping their closer' date=' Santos until he got traded to our division rival Blue Jays. He'd look pretty good in a Red Sox uni right now. Let's overlook that too. We should also overlook the fact that after months of negotiating with the Cubs, he agrees to take a guy with a bone spur in his elbow-- and he is a bum to boot. Offering Ortiz arbitration was a beautifully thought out move too. Starting the season with 3 experienced starters and no full time SS. Are we being too hard on him? Let's put it this way. I am waiting for him to do something right. I do like Cody Ross. I'll put that one in the plus column.[/quote']

 

I love the pounding of the Santos drum, when it has been reported that basically no one knew he was available. A member of the White Sox FO was pining for the SP they got on that deal, and that's why the trade got done so fast and went undetected. You just don't know what you're talking about.

 

As for the rest of the post, lots of revisionist history and negative rationalization.

[seabeachfred]

Let's not forget that he admitted to being unaware that the White Sox were shopping their closer' date=' Santos until he got traded to our division rival Blue Jays. He'd look pretty good in a Red Sox uni right now. Let's overlook that too. We should also overlook the fact that after months of negotiating with the Cubs, he agrees to take a guy with a bone spur in his elbow-- and he is a bum to boot. Offering Ortiz arbitration was a beautifully thought out move too. Starting the season with 3 experienced starters and no full time SS. Are we being too hard on him? Let's put it this way. I am waiting for him to do something right. I do like Cody Ross. I'll put that one in the plus column.[/quote']

 

Go Cody Ross!!!! We need some newcomer to whet our appetite for Red Sox baseball this season 700. I was also holding out for Melancon but right now I don't know one way or the other how he is going to work out. Hoping ST was just a warmup for the guy and that he was "working on things" that will pay off this season. If he and Ross work out there will be less attacks coming Cherington's way but as you hinted his job so far is nothing worthy than a C-.

[seabeachfred]

What are you seeing exactly is my question?

 

What's the basis for your judgment? The couple bucks the FO left the guy to spend? The bloated payroll? Limited roster options?

 

Try being a little rational, for once.

 

When we see a full season/offseason where he can freely execute a game plan, i'll pass judgment, and if he sucks, i'll be the first one calling for his head.

 

But of course, i'd rather take my time and come up with some informed criticism instead of ranting like a lunatic.

 

Read the post you reacted to. I laid out a small laundry list of mistakes the guy has made. OK, you take your time to assess Ben as a GM; I have already pretty much made up my mind. If Ross and Melancon work out well for us the assesment could change but right now I am not impressed at all in what I've seen from Cherington. We'll just have to agree to disagree.....again. Just don't take it personally.

[a700hitter]

Go Cody Ross!!!! We need some newcomer to whet our appetite for Red Sox baseball this season 700. I was also holding out for Melancon but right now I don't know one way or the other how he is going to work out. Hoping ST was just a warmup for the guy and that he was "working on things" that will pay off this season. If he and Ross work out there will be less attacks coming Cherington's way but as you hinted his job so far is nothing worthy than a C-.

Unless he was holding back in spring training, he didn't look to be a real hard thrower. Hopefully, his out pitch is not his fastball. He will need pin point command to be successful in the ALE, IMO.

[User Name]

Read the post you reacted to. I laid out a small laundry list of mistakes the guy has made. OK' date=' you take your time to assess Ben as a GM; I have already pretty much made up my mind. If Ross and Melancon work out well for us the assesment could change but right now I am not impressed at all in what I've seen from Cherington. We'll just have to agree to disagree.....again. Just don't take it personally.[/quote']

 

It's not personal Fred, if anyone's making it personal, it's you by telling me "swab Ben's deck". What's that s*** supposed to mean?

 

Also, don't you think you can make your complaints without it looking like you're at the top of an office building ready to jump off?

 

Hell, i'm worried the Sox are going to give you a heart attack one of these days and they aren't even playing.

[a700hitter]

Mike Gonzalez is still available the last time i looked. He is very annoying to watch pitch with all that rocking he does, but he could be a useful arm out of the pen.

[pedroias laser]

If things don't pick in a hurry you aren't going to enjoy the ride for very long. Perhaps you prefer to gloss over the inequities of our team but some of us don't. I still think we could make something of this season but with players starting to drop like raindrops the margin for error has reached critical mass. Personnel mistakes were made this past off season like resigning Ortiz when he needed pitching, letting Epstein go to Chicago and then bungling the compensation issue, trading for a closer who is little more than paper mache and gets on the DL every time he burps, not to mention trading Scutaro and getting nothing in return for him and not using the six million we saved from that trade to get a much needed picture.

 

Learn something from the get-go Peddy; I live and die with the Red Sox and it infuritates me when I see things happening to them that never should. I can only hope that tomorrow when the team takes the field they will prove themselves better than the clowns in the front office who supposedly leads them. That will make all of us smile.

 

 

Believe me Fred i agree with you with the horrible job Ben and Cherries is doing and by not

solidifying depth where we needed it the most. I also live and die with the Red Sox like

most fans do i would hope. My feeling was that before everyone starts getting upset

with emotion we should allow this team to put it all out on the field and put our best

thumbs forward (ooops) i meant foot lol.

[kapsis21]

Mike Gonzalez is still available the last time i looked. He is very annoying to watch pitch with all that rocking he does' date=' but he could be a useful arm out of the pen.[/quote']

 

he does have good stuff, i actually liked him when he was with orioles.

[mvp 78]

It's not personal Fred, if anyone's making it personal, it's you by telling me "swab Ben's deck". What's that s*** supposed to mean?

 

Also, don't you think you can make your complaints without it looking like you're at the top of an office building ready to jump off?

 

Hell, i'm worried the Sox are going to give you a heart attack one of these days and they aren't even playing.

 

According to other posters, worrying about SBF's health is belittling him.

 

I'm just worried about anyone who takes Felger and Mazz seriously. Felger is a professional contrarian (see last year's Bruins) and Mazz is just a yes-man at this point. They don't speak for the majority of fans or even for the majority of the media.

[a700hitter]

According to other posters, worrying about SBF's health is belittling him.

 

I'm just worried about anyone who takes Felger and Mazz seriously. Felger is a professional contrarian (see last year's Bruins) and Mazz is just a yes-man at this point. They don't speak for the majority of fans or even for the majority of the media.

When is it that we can take sports writers seriously? Probably when they agree with our own positions. Earlier in the day, the sports writers were cited as support for the proposition that Papelbon is overpaid.