Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[jung]

It appears to me that ST was a go/no-go. It was a go/no-go to continue the effort to develop Bard as a starter. I suspect they will continue at least until dice comes back and then decide at that point what to do for the remainder of this season. I can see the Sox telling Bard that dice will finish out the season in some capacity as a starter but that Bard will begin 2013 back in the rotation. I can see something like that happening. On the other hand I can also see, Bard outpitching Doubront and Doubront being the odd man out when dice comes back. If that happens Doubront probably gets traded.

 

In my view the only way the Sox will not continue along the lines I have suggested above is if Bard goes out there and gets creamed maybe 5-7 times in a row....I mean really lit up.

[iortiz]

I don't think this accurate. Bard isn't closing' date=' because he has been pressuring the Sox for sometime to get the chance to start.[/quote']

 

You and I said that Aveves and/or Bard deserved a chance to start loooong time ago... Assuming that we keep Pap and other factors. ST is never enough time/parameter to rate the good/bad of something but as you said early, the only guy that deserved the spot was Doubront. Hopefully Bard can make it.

[jung]

I don't think this accurate. Bard isn't closing, because he has been pressuring the Sox for sometime to get the chance to start.

 

I can't see how you could draw this conclusion. There were huge question marks voiced from all quarters about Bard's inability to be a closer and Bard does nothing to lead one to conclude that he can close. He does not have the mind set of a closer and at this stage in his career I don't think he will ever have it.

 

While I don't think he will ever admit it, I don't think Bard wants anything to do with closing. That is not a great recommendation for handing somebody the ball in the 9th inning. Now he has a long way to go in my estimation to have the presence and the mind set of a starter but at least it is something he wants to do, it appears to be something he may be able to do very well and all things being equal I think he is far more likely to figure that out than he is ever going to be with regard to the role of the closer.

 

Saying Bard is not closing because he wants to start is very much like saying there is nothing to closing other than taking the ball and throwing it. I am sure that is not what you mean 700 but in reality Bard is not a closer between his ears regardless of whether he might be from his right shoulder to the end of the fingers on his right hand.

[jung]

One thing I should have added to my post about Bard and closing.....I view comments about Bard not being "ready" to close as the same as saying he simply will not ever be a closer. He has been prepped and preened long enough to have at least made more progress toward being a closer. In my view he was not ready to be a closer because he was not pushing himself to be a closer.

 

In point of fact, I think he better figure out how to start because if he does not, in my view he will just become one of the many many ballplayers that never lived up to their potential. If he does not figure out how to start Bard in my view will wallow around in middle relief roles having had a very undistinguished career until it just ends one day. If that happens it won't even be a rare or unusual occurrence. It really happens quite often at all levels of baseball.

[a700hitter]

I can't see how you could draw this conclusion. There were huge question marks voiced from all quarters about Bard's inability to be a closer and Bard does nothing to lead one to conclude that he can close. He does not have the mind set of a closer and at this stage in his career I don't think he will ever have it.

 

While I don't think he will ever admit it, I don't think Bard wants anything to do with closing. That is not a great recommendation for handing somebody the ball in the 9th inning. Now he has a long way to go in my estimation to have the presence and the mind set of a starter but at least it is something he wants to do, it appears to be something he may be able to do very well and all things being equal I think he is far more likely to figure that out than he is ever going to be with regard to the role of the closer.

 

Saying Bard is not closing because he wants to start is very much like saying there is nothing to closing other than taking the ball and throwing it. I am sure that is not what you mean 700 but in reality Bard is not a closer between his ears regardless of whether he might be from his right shoulder to the end of the fingers on his right hand.

I am saying this because going back to last August there were stories in the press that he wanted to get a chance to be a starter. In the off season, he was very clear about his desire to close. The Sox decided to give him the chance. There is no evidence that they reached the conclusion that he couldn't close. It is just not supported by any reliable reports.

[jung]

And there were many stories in the press that Bard was not "ready" to be a closer. Time will tell but as I said earlier I think he better figure out how to start for his own good.

 

Now if this does not work I will guarantee you that Bard will "say" he now wants to close because for pitchers there are only two ways to really get paid in MLB....start or close. That won't make him a closer either.

[a700hitter]

And there were many stories in the press that Bard was not "ready" to be a closer. Time will tell but as I said earlier I think he better figure out how to start for his own good.

 

Now if this does not work I will guarantee you that Bard will "say" he now wants to close because for pitchers there are only two ways to really get paid in MLB....start or close. That won't make him a closer either.

But none of those reports came from any reliable source such as a FO source. Bard expressed his desire to start in interviews over the off season.

[jopete19]

Not sure if you guys have seen this... Thought it was pretty funny.

 

[ATTACH]828[/ATTACH]

[iortiz]

[jung]

Well if there is one thing that thumbgate shows us (as if we did not already know) it is how tenuous the pitching situation is for this club:

Beckett: Our best starting pitcher last year but does not pitch well unless he is completely confident in his heath and we have already had our first niggling injury of the season....great

Lester: Should be fine (hope I have not jinxed him)

Buch: Has never really proven healthy over his career to date

Doubront: Finally appears to be ready to turn potential into reality

Bard: a project, one that I agree with but a project none the less

Miller: Hurt

Maine: please

Cook: We may end up relying on him, God help us

Padilla: carries a portable therapy couch on road trips

Aceves: Might have to close with Bailey hurt...wait a minute...might have to start for Beckett....wait a minute.....Think about how whacky it is to have one guy that might be your closer or might be the starter in the second game of the new season

Melancon: May end up being our closer now,,,,yikes!!!!

Morales, Albers,....cast of thousands....who cares

Bailey: The walking HMO machine

 

I know we are generally trying to be optimistic but does this seem screwed up or what?

[Station 13]

Not sure if you guys have seen this... Thought it was pretty funny.

 

[ATTACH]828[/ATTACH]

 

lol

 

Who made this?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Oh god that is great.

[iortiz]

Well if there is one thing that thumbgate shows us (as if we did not already know) it is how tenuous the pitching situation is for this club:

Beckett: Our best starting pitcher last year but does not pitch well unless he is completely confident in his heath and we have already had our first niggling injury of the season....great

Lester: Should be fine (hope I have not jinxed him)

Buch: Has never really proven healthy over his career to date

Doubront: Finally appears to be ready to turn potential into reality

Bard: a project, one that I agree with but a project none the less

Miller: Hurt

Maine: please

Cook: We may end up relying on him, God help us

Padilla: carries a portable therapy couch on road trips

Aceves: Might have to close with Bailey hurt...wait a minute...might have to start for Beckett....wait a minute.....Think about how whacky it is to have one guy that might be your closer or might be the starter in the second game of the new season

Melancon: May end up being our closer now,,,,yikes!!!!

Morales, Albers,....cast of thousands....who cares

Bailey: The walking HMO machine

 

I know we are generally trying to be optimistic but does this seem screwed up or what?

 

This is 2012 Boston Red Sox pitching to date.

[RedSoxNC84]

Bobby V should ban games of thumb war in the clubhouse too, look at the damage it's done so far!!!

 

 

*Meanwhile in the clubhouse*

Beckett & Bailey: "1, 2, 3, 4 I declare thumb---"

 

Bailey: "Ow, f***!"

 

Beckett: "Me too!"

[iortiz]

Bobby V should ban games of thumb war in the clubhouse too' date=' look at the damage it's done so far!!![/quote']

 

Thumb war? You mean this?

 

http://www.nopuedocreer.com/quelohayaninventado/wp-content/images/2011/09/Thumb-Wrestling-Arena.jpeg

[RedSoxNC84]

Thumb war? You mean this?

 

http://www.nopuedocreer.com/quelohayaninventado/wp-content/images/2011/09/Thumb-Wrestling-Arena.jpeg

 

I do. It's too bad all the injuries occurred, now no one can be claimed champion!

[a700hitter]

Here's how I see it:

 

We entered the off season needing to fill 2 rotation spots. Here's what was done to address the situatioin:

 

No major league starter (who was a full-time starter in 2011) was acquired.

 

One of the top 2 pieces from the bullpen (Bard) was converted to starting despite no experience as a ML starter and a track record of failure starting in the minors.

 

A minor league pitcher (Doubront), with no major record of accomplishment in the minors, was installed as the #4 starter.

 

The two most reliable bullpen pitchers (maybe the top end of game tandem) was replaced with a largely unproven pitcher with no major stuff (Melancon) and a fragile injury prone guy who can't pitch more than 40 innings in a season.

 

For depth, a bunch of broken down, over the hill relics were picked off the scrap heap-- Silva, Ohlendorf, Maine, Padilla and Cook.

 

I think that sums it up pretty accurately. Others may feel differently, but I look at this plan, and I don't see a high probability for success.

 

We can hope that this team rallies in the face of adversity, because Bennies moves have not improved this team. There was one good move made during the off season and that was the acquisition of Bobby V-- and Cherrington opposed that.

[a700hitter]

From today's Globe

Bailey needs surgery on his thumb

Sox closer to see hand specialist on Tuesday

By Peter Abraham

Globe Staff / April 3, 2012

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. - The Red Sox took a gamble when they acquired Andrew Bailey from the Oakland Athletics in December. The righthander unquestionably had the talent and temperament to replace Jonathan Papelbon as the closer, but had a troubling history with injuries.

 

Now, just days before the season starts, Bailey has been told he needs surgery on his right thumb, according to major league sources.

 

Bailey was examined by team doctors in Boston on Monday and on Tuesday will see Dr. Robert Graham, a hand specialist at the Cleveland Clinic. If Graham agrees with the recommendation for surgery, it could happen later that day.

 

Graham performed surgery on Kevin Youkilis and Jarrod Saltalamacchia in 2010. Youkilis had a torn muscle in his right thumb and Saltalamacchia a torn ligament in his left thumb.

 

The Red Sox open the season on Thursday in Detroit. It is uncertain how long Bailey would be out.

 

“When a player is injured I always am very concerned and always try to make alternative plans. If he jumps right back in, then I’m pleasantly surprised,’’ manager Bobby Valentine said. “When guys are hurt, they’re hurt and he couldn’t pitch for a couple of days, you know?’’

 

It is uncertain how Bailey was injured. All that is known is that he threw 26 pitches in a minor league game last Wednesday and has not pitched since.

 

Because of the long layoff, it is almost certain Bailey will start the season on the disabled list for the second consecutive season, whether surgery is required or not.

 

Bailey strained his forearm in spring training last season and did not return until May 29.

 

In 2010, he had minor elbow surgery in September and knee surgery after the season in 2009.

 

Bailey strained a muscle behind his shoulder on the second day of camp with the Sox during physical testing. That kept him out until March 12. But he was on track to make Opening Day before the thumb injury.

 

The Red Sox traded outfielder Josh Reddick and two prospects to Oakland on Dec. 28 for Bailey and outfielder Ryan Sweeney.

 

“We had a chance to look into Bailey’s medical history and get to know a lot more about what he’s gone through,’’ Sox general manager Ben Cherington said at the time. “We’re very confident that he will come into camp ready to go.’’

 

Without Bailey, an already thin Red Sox bullpen will turn to Mark Melancon and Alfredo Aceves as replacements. Melancon has 20 career saves, all with the Houston Astros last season. Aceves has four career saves.

 

“I’m ready for whatever they throw at me,’’ Melancon said. “If they need me to close, I’ve done that before. It’s the kind of situation that I like.’’

 

Aceves was told by Valentine to be prepared to pitch in the eighth or ninth inning. If Bailey is out for an extended period, the Sox could designate Melancon or Aceves as the closer. There are no plans at the moment to return newly crowned No. 5 starter Daniel Bard to the bullpen.

 

Meanwhile, No. 2 starter Josh Beckett also has a right thumb injury. But Valentine said he “totally’’ expects Beckett to start against the Tigers as planned on Friday.

 

Beckett was in San Antonio on Monday to be examined by Dr. Mark Bagg, a hand specialist.

 

“If he needed to talk to me, he was going to talk to me. He didn’t talk to me, so I think he was fine,’’ Valentine said.

 

Beckett threw a lengthy bullpen session on Sunday and did not miss any of his starts this spring. He allowed two earned runs on seven hits over 19 innings against major league competition.

 

“He threw 100 pitches yesterday and felt great, hit location,’’ Valentine said. “He’s had a little situation that he’s getting taken care of today just for peace of mind.

 

“He said he felt really good. I talked to the trainers and Bob [McClure, the pitching coach]. What was really good about the last couple of times that he’s thrown is he’s had good command.’’

 

Valentine said Beckett has had “a little history’’ with his thumb. Beckett is expected to join the team in Detroit on Wednesday.

 

That two prominent pitchers experienced thumb injuries at the same time is unusual.

 

“Interesting, isn’t it?’’ Valentine said. “No thumb wrestling is allowed. We took that out of the program.’’

[SoxSport]

No fried chicken in the clubhouse? Now that's pandering to the media.

 

Boggs used to eat chicken before every game.

 

What about baked? stir-fried? Maybe some fan should send them a recipe book on chicken.

[SoxSport]

Looks like Melancon will replace Bailey as closer. Aceves will setup. That is, unless they need him to replace Beckett as starter. In which case Bard's career as a starter will be delayed. Thumbs up, guys.

[redsoxfan3]

Looks like Melancon will replace Bailey as closer. Aceves will setup. That is' date=' unless they need him to replace Beckett as starter. In which case Bard's career as a starter will be delayed. Thumbs up, guys.[/quote']

 

Bard is in the rotation no matter what. If Beckett cannot pitch, then you are right, Aceves will be there to fill-in until he can come back. If that is the case, then we will have Melancon as the closer with probably either Padilla or Morales being the set-up guy temporarily. Bowden might get a shot as a set-up man as well. The good thing is that according to Valentine, Beckett will make his first start. Let's hope that he is right so that Aceves can stay in the pen to help Melancon out in the later innings. I am just concerned as to why Beckett needs to go to Cleveland as well if his injury is not that big of an issue.

[jopete19]

Injuries already hurting this team. How does Bailey not know when his thumb injury occurred? This thumb gate is pissin me off.

[pedroias laser]

I think Melancon will close if Bailey does indeed need to go under the knife. Remember he did close

last year and for a horrible team like the Stros 20 saves is not bad at all. Also the ERA was not too

bad as well. I think if Bailey goes down we can find a suitable closer until he comes back. On the

other hand if Beckett goes down then we have quite an issue at hand.

[redsoxfan3]

I think Melancon will close if Bailey does indeed need to go under the knife. Remember he did close

last year and for a horrible team like the Stros 20 saves is not bad at all. Also the ERA was not too

bad as well. I think if Bailey goes down we can find a suitable closer until he comes back. On the

other hand if Beckett goes down then we have quite an issue at hand.

 

Well, reports are good for Beckett and not so good for Bailey. The positive is that we have Melancon, like you said. Melancon, Padilla, and Morales all have experience closing. It is not a lot of experience, but the positive is that they still have the experience. Aceves is obviously a great reliever, so with these four guys we should be fine.

[pedroias laser]

Well' date=' reports are good for Beckett and not so good for Bailey. The positive is that we have Melancon, like you said. Melancon, Padilla, and Morales all have experience closing. It is not a lot of experience, but the positive is that they still have the experience. Aceves is obviously a great reliever, so with these four guys we should be fine.[/quote']

 

 

I think we should be ok as well considering it could be worse right?. I have always been

the fan that looks at the bright side so we shall see.

[BornToRun]

I think we should be ok as well considering it could be worse right?. I have always been

the fan that looks at the bright side so we shall see.

 

We'll be fine. Losing bailey sucks but we can get by.

[iortiz]

We'll be fine. Losing bailey sucks but we can get by.

 

Well, let me recap a bit... we lost D-K, Lackey, Jenks, Papelbon, Wheeler, Scutaro, Crawford, Kalish and now Bailey.

 

Sure, some of them are improvements by subtraction but we expected a lot more from them before were signed regardless they cost us tons of money and are the reason why we didn't sign a couple of extra arms this offseason,... but yeah, probably we'll be ok.

[pedroias laser]

We'll be fine. Losing bailey sucks but we can get by.

 

Yea i think we will be fine as well. I just look at what has transpired this spring and just

have to laugh because after last season i feel this is just trivial.

[VA Sox Fan]

Cook, Ohlendorf dropped from Red Sox roster

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff April 3, 2012 12:07 PM

 

 

 

The Red Sox have reassigned righthanded pitchers Aaron Cook and Ross Ohlendorf to minor league camp. They will be in the rotation for Triple-A Pawtucket.

 

The contenders for two roster spots at this point are RHP Scott Atchison, C Dan Butler, INF Pedro Ciriaco, OF Jason Repko, INF Nate Spears and LHP Justin Thomas.

 

That's assuming that Michael Bowden and Vicente Padilla are safely in the bullpen, which seems to be the case.

 

The Sox have to decide whether they want to carry an extra pitcher.

[mvp 78]

Well, let me recap a bit... we lost D-K, Lackey, Jenks, Papelbon, Wheeler, Scutaro, Crawford, Kalish and now Bailey.

 

Sure, some of them are improvements by subtraction but we expected a lot more from them before were signed regardless they cost us tons of money and are the reason why we didn't sign a couple of extra arms this offseason,... but yeah, probably we'll be ok.

 

DK will pitch more in 2012 than 2011

Lackey sucked

Jenks is a non-entity

Paps was a big loss

Wheeler was underwhelming to say the least

Scutaro isn't much better than Aviles

CC will be better this year

Kalish didn't play for Boston last year

Bailey was supposedly the replacement for Paps

 

No mention of losing Drew, Tek, or Wake?

 

The only loss was Paps. Closers are overrated.